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Old 02-15-2013, 01:09 PM   #1
Joe aka - KODAK
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Default GM - come on with the info already!

I've yet to see another auto manufacture release a new car that they don't give ALL the specs for, makes no sense.

All the hipe of the reveal and in some aspects it was a let down. Yes the pics say it almost looks great, but the design does still has have some issues, but the important things, like product transmission, engine data, car weight are no where to be found, it's an incomplete story.

The only thing, I wonder if they really don't know until they actually get a production car off the new line? Just a thought, but that doesn't make sense either.

How do you market a product that the customer doesn't really get to know what they are buying until you buy it? I should have known - EBAY

GM - the public / the BUYERS would like to know - how about telling us all the specs on the production car.

Last edited by Joe aka - KODAK; 02-15-2013 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:15 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Joe aka - KODAK View Post
I've yet to see another auto manufacture release a new car that they don't give ALL the specs for, makes no sense.

market a product that the customer doesn't really get to know what they are buying until you buy it? I should have known - EBAY
.
shhh..it hasn't been released yet
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:17 PM   #3
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They will decide when you need to see it, just like every manufacturer out there does.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe aka - KODAK View Post
I've yet to see another auto manufacture release a new car that they don't give ALL the specs for, makes no sense.

All the hipe of the reveal and in some aspects it was a let down. Yes the pics say it almost looks great, but the design does still has have some issues, but the important things, like product transmission, engine data, car weight are no where to be found, it's an incomplete story.

The only thing, I wonder if they really don't know until they actually get a production car off the new line? Just a thought, but that doesn't make sense either.

How do you market a product that the customer doesn't really get to know what they are buying until you buy it? I should have known - EBAY

GM - the public / the BUYERS would like to know - how about telling us all the specs on the production car.

They are still testing the first trial (read half hand built) cars off the production line - hot weather testing and cold weather testing. Results could effect changes in engine management systems, possible gear ratio changes and newly designed parts could even fatigue or fail in extreme weather testing, necessitating a redesign, which could change weights.

Remember this is a car that's not for sale. Final production models do not exist. Surely you're not suggesting they weigh and measure a Mule?

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Old 02-15-2013, 01:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe aka - KODAK View Post
I've yet to see another auto manufacture release a new car that they don't give ALL the specs for, makes no sense.

All the hipe of the reveal and in some aspects it was a let down. Yes the pics say it almost looks great, but the design does still has have some issues, but the important things, like product transmission, engine data, car weight are no where to be found, it's an incomplete story.

The only thing, I wonder if they really don't know until they actually get a production car off the new line? Just a thought, but that doesn't make sense either.

How do you market a product that the customer doesn't really get to know what they are buying until you buy it? I should have known - EBAY

GM - the public / the BUYERS would like to know - how about telling us all the specs on the production car.
They can't tell the specs because they haven't built one yet. This is the problem with all the early hype and tease.

They are STILL BUILDING the C6. That line doesn't close for another two weeks.

These are show cars and prototypes for testing. The assembly line isn't in place, the tooling isn't finished and they may even need to make a few tweaks to make those things happen. When that's all done - then we'll see specs, prices, option lists that are real. And then ordering info.

Relax. Have some decaf. Join a bowling league that gives you something to do until summer.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:41 PM   #6
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They can't tell the specs because they haven't built one yet. This is the problem with all the early hype and tease.

They are STILL BUILDING the C6. That line doesn't close for another two weeks.

These are show cars and prototypes for testing. The assembly line isn't in place, the tooling isn't finished and they may even need to make a few tweaks to make those things happen. When that's all done - then we'll see specs, prices, option lists that are real. And then ordering info.

Relax. Have some decaf. Join a bowling league that gives you something to do until summer.
You mean they built all those new parts for the C7(except for the two carryover parts from the C6) without any engineering drawings.

I'm impressed.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
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You mean they built all those new parts for the C7(except for the two carryover parts from the C6) without any engineering drawings.

I'm impressed.

Estimation helps hold the line on costs
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:46 PM   #8
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gm is a joke..
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:48 PM   #9
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Estimation helps hold the line on costs
GM knows the weight of every single item in every single vehicle they build, even down to the weight of the mercury used in the HID's.

Don't believe for a minute that they are estimating.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
You mean they built all those new parts for the C7(except for the two carryover parts from the C6) without any engineering drawings.

I'm impressed.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:56 PM   #11
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GM released the design so they can drive it around town without the big canvas parachute. Not that the camo is off, they can finish the testing that will decide that last few specifics.

Once they've decided there will be no changes, we'll get our final numbers. Right now there's probably ~15lb, a couple horses, a couple foot pounds, etc. in the variables.

Knowing how it works, the engineers wont tell the marketing team anything that isn't completely factual. Otherwise the marketing people will take anything they're given and start to spin it. The marketing team is probably having the same conversations we are...

I just don't think the final numbers really matter all that much to most of the potential buyers.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:05 PM   #12
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GM released the design so they can drive it around town without the big canvas parachute. Not that the camo is off, they can finish the testing that will decide that last few specifics.

Once they've decided there will be no changes, we'll get our final numbers. Right now there's probably ~15lb, a couple horses, a couple foot pounds, etc. in the variables.

Knowing how it works, the engineers wont tell the marketing team anything that isn't completely factual. Otherwise the marketing people will take anything they're given and start to spin it. The marketing team is probably having the same conversations we are...

I just don't think the final numbers really matter all that much to most of the potential buyers.
Yep ! Most people are getting it for the styling IMO so as long as that does not change the other info really does not matter.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
GM knows the weight of every single item in every single vehicle they build, even down to the weight of the mercury used in the HID's.

Don't believe for a minute that they are estimating.
Yes they do but that doesn't mean they can't/won't change their minds about things at this point. They could be shaving weight, changing their minds about components or what those components are made of, moving things, etc.

It's still 6 months till they build one for the public on the line. They just aren't ready to tell you everything yet and they will when they feel like it. That's ok by me.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Yes they do but that doesn't mean they can't/won't change their minds about things at this point. They could be shaving weight, changing their minds about components or what those components are made of, moving things, etc.

It's still 6 months till they build one for the public on the line. They just aren't ready to tell you everything yet and they will when they feel like it. That's ok by me.

Personally I have enough info. My deposit has been in a month already. The rest of the info is all icing icing on the cake

People need to calm down relax and enjoy life now. Good things come to those who wait...
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:22 PM   #15
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It makes a lot of sense for GM to not release the information, even if they know what the final values are. The C7 is a hot topic right now because of the reveal and the auto shows. When that buzz dies down, they can release the HP/TQ figures and everyone will be talking about them. After awhile, they can release the weight. Then maybe the final options. Then the price. Lots of opportunity to keep C7 in the news.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:23 PM   #16
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Everything posted makes sense, but why don't they just say that the production car may be a little different because we're still working on it, instead of giving nothing and having all the misunderstanding about the car?

Seems like GM's hipe is just POOR marketing
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueOx View Post
Yes they do but that doesn't mean they can't/won't change their minds about things at this point. They could be shaving weight, changing their minds about components or what those components are made of, moving things, etc.

It's still 6 months till they build one for the public on the line. They just aren't ready to tell you everything yet and they will when they feel like it. That's ok by me.
do you have any idea what the lead time is for production molds, all that fancy welding equipment for the frames, etc is?

You don't order production equipment/tooling etc without having the design pretty well pinned down.

"Oh wait a minute guys. I think we can shave a pound off this fender. I know it's only a month before we are scheduled to go into production, but don't you think we can have a new set of $500,000 fender molds made in time?. How about this new modification in the frame's design? Can't we get new stamping dies done in a month and then get the welding fixtures modified. Come on guys, you can do it. We have a whole month."
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:36 PM   #18
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Addicts begging for another dose.
Bunch of ingrates.

The next steps are coming soon. The press gets invited to a first-drive event, and GM gives the community an infodump at the Museum Bash. At that point you should know just about everything except for line-item pricing and the results of the magazines' 991-C7 shootouts.

.Jinx
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
GM knows the weight of every single item in every single vehicle they build, even down to the weight of the mercury used in the HID's.

Don't believe for a minute that they are estimating.
So they know from the engineering drawings how much an A-Arm weighs? And if they hollow cast it or make it from magnesium....

And then they have a person in charge of adding up all those individual parts and the weight of lubricants, grease, foam rubber in the seats, carpet, bolts and nuts so they can provide an exact weight.

Right. That makes sense. Until they scale a production vehicle and give that certified weight to the EPA for federal classification, everything is an estimate.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:46 PM   #20
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do you have any idea what the lead time is for production molds, all that fancy welding equipment for the frames, etc is?

You don't order production equipment/tooling etc without having the design pretty well pinned down.

"Oh wait a minute guys. I think we can shave a pound off this fender. I know it's only a month before we are scheduled to go into production, but don't you think we can have a new set of $500,000 fender molds made in time?. How about this new modification in the frame's design? Can't we get new stamping dies done in a month and then get the welding fixtures modified. Come on guys, you can do it. We have a whole month."
Right - there's never been a running change in the history of manufacturing. They never have parts they can't get and constrain those orders or just change or eliminate things as the process moves forward.

Come on. You act like this is some chiseled in stone process. Yeah, the major elements are done. But if a better, cheaper, lighter, stronger part comes through - I'm betting it's on there. But then that wouldn't be a running change because they HAVEN'T BUILT ONE YET.

If it's a big enough deal they might even move the delivery date like they did when the C4 became a targa instead of a T-Top.
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