Why no hard top option in the base coupe?
04-27-2013, 11:21 PM
#21
I'm surprised, too. I was really hoping this time around they had fixed roof coupe model, stiffer, no seals, no squeaks.
I think the number of people who say they take their top is off is a lot higher than actual numbers. If you listen to some people on this forum, you would think everyone had their top off. OK, where are all these people? I never see any tops off of Corvettes, ever. It was an 80's fad that died off.
I took mine out on my C4 to see what it was like, and I thought the whole car was going to shake apart, and I would forever be tracking down squeaks and rattles. I never did that again, even with my C5.
Michael
I think the number of people who say they take their top is off is a lot higher than actual numbers. If you listen to some people on this forum, you would think everyone had their top off. OK, where are all these people? I never see any tops off of Corvettes, ever. It was an 80's fad that died off.
I took mine out on my C4 to see what it was like, and I thought the whole car was going to shake apart, and I would forever be tracking down squeaks and rattles. I never did that again, even with my C5.
Michael
There's at least one vette other than mine around here that rides with the top off. It's a Torch Red C5.
04-27-2013, 11:53 PM
#22
Team Owner
All Corvettes are cool.
It's some of their drivers that aren't.
I dunno about the C4 there, there were well over a million of them made and sold. I'll probably be Joe's age by the time I need to start worrying about making one "Factory Correct". By then I don't know if we'll even be driving gasoline cars anymore.
It's some of their drivers that aren't.
I dunno about the C4 there, there were well over a million of them made and sold. I'll probably be Joe's age by the time I need to start worrying about making one "Factory Correct". By then I don't know if we'll even be driving gasoline cars anymore.
There was a very good reason that GM was going to pull the plug on the C4 in 1992. Sales had drastically fallen to ~20,000 per year, without any prospect of improving. They only kept the C4 in production through 1996 because they didn't want a lapse in production before they could get the C5 into production. It took from 1992 through 1996 to get the C5 designed and tooled. The C5 saved the Corvette after the C4 nearly ended it.
The C3 sold 542,861 over a 15 year life span. That's an average of 36,191 per year.
The C5 sold 248,715 over a 7.5 year life span. That's an average of 33,162 per year.
Now you tell me, which generation had the best sales record on average each year of production? C3, C4 or C5? Looks like the C4 was indeed bookended by the C3 and C5.
Speaking of age, it's scary thinking of what you're going to do when you're old enough to vote.
Last edited by JoesC5; 04-27-2013 at 11:57 PM.
04-28-2013, 12:00 AM
#23
If you're going to BS me at least try and make it believable. There were only 358,180 C4's built over a 13 year span, not 1,000,000. That's an average of 27,552 per year.
There was a very good reason that GM was going to pull the plug on the C4 in 1992. Sales had fallen to ~20,000 per year, without any prospect of improving. They only kept the C4 in production through 1996 because they didn't want a lapse in production before they could get the C5 into production. It took from 1992 through 1996 to get the C5 designed and tooled. The C5 saved the Corvette after the C4 nearly ended it.
The C3 sold 542,861 over a 15 year life span. That's an average of 36,191 per year.
The C5 sold 248,715 over a 8 year life span. That's an average of 31,089 per year.
Now you tell me, which generation had the best sales record on average each year of production? C3, C4 or C5? Looks like the C4 was indeed bookended by the C3 and C5.
Speaking of age, it's scary thinking of what you're going to do when you're old enough to vote.
There was a very good reason that GM was going to pull the plug on the C4 in 1992. Sales had fallen to ~20,000 per year, without any prospect of improving. They only kept the C4 in production through 1996 because they didn't want a lapse in production before they could get the C5 into production. It took from 1992 through 1996 to get the C5 designed and tooled. The C5 saved the Corvette after the C4 nearly ended it.
The C3 sold 542,861 over a 15 year life span. That's an average of 36,191 per year.
The C5 sold 248,715 over a 8 year life span. That's an average of 31,089 per year.
Now you tell me, which generation had the best sales record on average each year of production? C3, C4 or C5? Looks like the C4 was indeed bookended by the C3 and C5.
Speaking of age, it's scary thinking of what you're going to do when you're old enough to vote.
Yeah.. about that the early 90s we were in a recession and didn't really recover until the late 90s which became a boom. The C5 just happened to come out during that time.
Let's talk C6.. and just how fantastically bad it's sales are eh? Oh wait it gets a free pass because it's your favorite vette. The C4's sales were NEVER as bad as the C6s are. Guess that means the C6 is a total pile of crap.
Funny when you look at the vette sales, they sell well during economic booms.. and not so well during recessions. I wonder why that is... hm
Given just how childish you act, it's not any worse than the damage you've likely done already.
By the way I'm 28.
Last edited by Aaron Keating; 04-28-2013 at 12:08 AM.
04-28-2013, 12:09 AM
#26
If you're going to BS me at least try and make it believable. There were only 358,180 C4's built over a 13 year span, not 1,000,000. That's an average of 27,552 per year.
There was a very good reason that GM was going to pull the plug on the C4 in 1992. Sales had drastically fallen to ~20,000 per year, without any prospect of improving. They only kept the C4 in production through 1996 because they didn't want a lapse in production before they could get the C5 into production. It took from 1992 through 1996 to get the C5 designed and tooled. The C5 saved the Corvette after the C4 nearly ended it.
The C3 sold 542,861 over a 15 year life span. That's an average of 36,191 per year.
The C5 sold 248,715 over a 7.5 year life span. That's an average of 33,162 per year.
Now you tell me, which generation had the best sales record on average each year of production? C3, C4 or C5? Looks like the C4 was indeed bookended by the C3 and C5.
Speaking of age, it's scary thinking of what you're going to do when you're old enough to vote.
There was a very good reason that GM was going to pull the plug on the C4 in 1992. Sales had drastically fallen to ~20,000 per year, without any prospect of improving. They only kept the C4 in production through 1996 because they didn't want a lapse in production before they could get the C5 into production. It took from 1992 through 1996 to get the C5 designed and tooled. The C5 saved the Corvette after the C4 nearly ended it.
The C3 sold 542,861 over a 15 year life span. That's an average of 36,191 per year.
The C5 sold 248,715 over a 7.5 year life span. That's an average of 33,162 per year.
Now you tell me, which generation had the best sales record on average each year of production? C3, C4 or C5? Looks like the C4 was indeed bookended by the C3 and C5.
Speaking of age, it's scary thinking of what you're going to do when you're old enough to vote.
04-28-2013, 12:10 AM
#27
04-28-2013, 12:22 AM
#28
Team Owner
And I agree, there are some very nice C4's out there. If fact, the photo that Aaron has posted of his C4, shows a very nice car.
That said, the production numbers show how the buying public felt about the C4 once the new had worn off.
The C3 started strong and ended strong except for 1982 when everyone was waiting to see what the C4 was going to be, and the C5 started strong, and ended strong.
Last edited by JoesC5; 04-28-2013 at 12:25 AM.
04-28-2013, 02:27 AM
#29
Race Director
there's also an investment if the car is changed. the c5 FRC was almost a flop until they got the idea to make the z06. most books on corvette allude to the investment cost and lackluster sales of the 99-00 FRC
if gm just made a fixed roof that looked identical to the coupe...what would the point be? if you want the roof on, don't take it off
if gm just made a fixed roof that looked identical to the coupe...what would the point be? if you want the roof on, don't take it off
04-28-2013, 02:31 AM
#30
Race Director
If you're going to BS me at least try and make it believable. There were only 358,180 C4's built over a 13 year span, not 1,000,000. That's an average of 27,552 per year.
There was a very good reason that GM was going to pull the plug on the C4 in 1992. Sales had drastically fallen to ~20,000 per year, without any prospect of improving. They only kept the C4 in production through 1996 because they didn't want a lapse in production before they could get the C5 into production. It took from 1992 through 1996 to get the C5 designed and tooled. The C5 saved the Corvette after the C4 nearly ended it.
The C3 sold 542,861 over a 15 year life span. That's an average of 36,191 per year.
The C5 sold 248,715 over a 7.5 year life span. That's an average of 33,162 per year.
Now you tell me, which generation had the best sales record on average each year of production? C3, C4 or C5? Looks like the C4 was indeed bookended by the C3 and C5.
Speaking of age, it's scary thinking of what you're going to do when you're old enough to vote.
There was a very good reason that GM was going to pull the plug on the C4 in 1992. Sales had drastically fallen to ~20,000 per year, without any prospect of improving. They only kept the C4 in production through 1996 because they didn't want a lapse in production before they could get the C5 into production. It took from 1992 through 1996 to get the C5 designed and tooled. The C5 saved the Corvette after the C4 nearly ended it.
The C3 sold 542,861 over a 15 year life span. That's an average of 36,191 per year.
The C5 sold 248,715 over a 7.5 year life span. That's an average of 33,162 per year.
Now you tell me, which generation had the best sales record on average each year of production? C3, C4 or C5? Looks like the C4 was indeed bookended by the C3 and C5.
Speaking of age, it's scary thinking of what you're going to do when you're old enough to vote.
GM made a few blunders with the c4 but was almost forced to in order to keep it alive. the zr-1 project was expensive and i'm not even sure if it was profitable. when it was clear that the c5 was not to be by 90-92 they did a reskin and new dash. GM milked the c4 for some time and the 96 car has very little in common with the 84 car.
i am however happy that GM didn't rush the c5 and made it a ground breaking world class car that more or less ran until 2013 with a reskin in 2005
04-28-2013, 02:41 AM
#31
Paul, did I post one lie? Production numbers are production numbers and they tell how popular a car is. The C4 started off with very high production numbers in 1984(unlike the BS that Aaron said about the C4 starting off in a recession). Late 1970's was when the economy started going south. The economy was strong in 1991-1992 when the demand for the C4 crashed. Had nothing to do with the looks of the C4, more with the car just being a crummy ride.
And I agree, there are some very nice C4's out there. If fact, the photo that Aaron has posted of his C4, shows a very nice car.
That said, the production numbers show how the buying public felt about the C4 once the new had worn off.
The C3 started strong and ended strong except for 1982 when everyone was waiting to see what the C4 was going to be, and the C5 started strong, and ended strong.
And I agree, there are some very nice C4's out there. If fact, the photo that Aaron has posted of his C4, shows a very nice car.
That said, the production numbers show how the buying public felt about the C4 once the new had worn off.
The C3 started strong and ended strong except for 1982 when everyone was waiting to see what the C4 was going to be, and the C5 started strong, and ended strong.
Crummy ride huh? As compared to what in the late 80s? Or hell the -early- 90s for that matter? The 90s saw the reinvention and resurgence of horsepower true, and some really great cars came out during the 90s as far as performance went but the C4 was still a pretty good sports car at the end of it's run. (one of my other favorite cars.. namely the Gen 4 Birds, that last RX7, the NSX) one of the cars that ate into the C4's sales was in part the Gen 4 F cars. For the price difference between the vettes of the time and the F cars there wasn't really that much gap in performance, not even close and in some ways the F cars were better. Then there were cars which were just Cool, like the Supras of the mid 90s, the 3000GTs, 300ZXs, Subaru getting Serious for a little while there with the WRX cars. There was the Viper (need we say more? and no matter what the actual results of a Viper vs Vette shakes down, the Viper is Numero uno in competition with the vette now) The C4 went from having almost zero competition to a flooded market of performance cars right about from 91 onward.
The 96 LT4s are already picking up value again. The ZR-1s bottomed out and are coming back too. (Much easier to get a C5 ZO6 in Good shape similar to my C4 than it is a similar shaped ZR-1 in the same price ranges of 15 to 18k. I paid 5.8k out the door for my base C4)
The C5 also ended it's run during an overall strong economy.
There's more to sales than the quality of the vette. I don't think anyone here is
enough to say that because of it's low sales (far lower than the lowest selling year of the C4) the C6 is obviously a **** poor car because no one wanted one. I do think the Convex rear ended C4s really didn't catch the public's eye though. Especially when there were far far more aggressive looking cars within GM's own lineup at the time with similar performance capabilities with more practicality (trunk space, 2 extra seats) and more importantly a far less costly sticker. The C4 is very much a product of the era it was designed in, in terms of styling. By the 90s the C4's styling was pretty much considered played out. 90s cars tend to be more rounded, with more flared body work, more details on various surfaces etc.
Should the C5 come out sooner? Yes it should have.
It aint' a crappy car. It's kind of hard to say something that can last 24 years and rack up 140,000 on stock vacuum lines (as near as I could tell when I got it), likely stock brakes that may quite literally have never been serviced due to the ''corvette tax'' (yeah..those are long gone now
) is a crummy ride. Does it rattle? Yes. My Gen 4 F car hardtops were dead quiet compared to the C4 over railroad tracks at least (it doesn't rattle nearly as much when the targa bolts are tight... and I don't think I tighten them down quite enough since they tend to back themselves out upfront. But I don't wanna strip the threads). Is the exhaust ''loud''? Yeah. And to most people who want a sewing machine when they drive that last trait especially is considered damning. To me the C4 wasn't loud enough... (which is why I have a stainless set of headers... xpipe, a pair of high flow cats and mufflers waiting on me in the trunk of one of my other projects) hell the damn shocks on the thing, some how are still in decent shape and they are the black originals that came on the car. (if the shock bushings are anything to judge by, along with all the rest of the bushings in the suspension for that matter... sheesh) Stock though, I thought noise wise the exhaust was good. Enough to let everyone know you're not driving some little 4 banger if they are next to the car. But quiet enough to easily have a normal conversation in the cabin while driving, even with the targa off and windows down at 70mph. I know a guy that got himself an 80s Porsche about the same time I got my C4. It has 1/3rd the miles mine has on it and the last time I griped about fixing something rather minor (relative to his car's issues) issue he simply tells me to shut up, and get out my duct tape spend fifty cents and move on.
His clutch cost him almost half of what I paid for my entire car. Mine's just now getting to the point that it needed damage and the wrath of time, undone. But I knew coming in it being 24 years old it would need work. I can't think of a single car from that era that I could buy, let alone at the price point I got the C4 at that wouldn't need some serious love. Mine has given me little fits over the last year (and last year was a hard year for me financially. It's going to be much better this year), but I'm glad I didn't buy a Porsche, or BMW.
I've actually got mine off the road for now, since I'm waiting on an adapter kit and walbro 255lph fuel pump to come in. Mine finally gave up the ghost. Considering I've had to replace fuel pumps in much newer cars, that had quite abit fewer miles on them I'd say it didn't have a bad run.
I personally put 7500 on the car last year. The thing's enough of a joy to drive that I really do drive the thing every day. I probably wouldn't enjoy it nearly so much if I was stuck in city traffic all the time or didn't live in a curvy road infested area. (Oh firstworld problems
) She had 132,500 and change when I got it last march. And everyone that's ridden shotgun with me, some of which were vette haters period before the ride, end up leaving the car with a grin on their face and respect for it's capabilities. Not bad for a 24 year old crummy/ old chevy car I'd say.
Last edited by Aaron Keating; 04-28-2013 at 03:02 AM.