Corvette Vs Camaro Z28
05-01-2013, 09:59 PM
#41
Le Mans Master
05-01-2013, 10:14 PM
#42
Melting Slicks
My bottom line is, "I like Camaros" and I "love Vettes".
The Vette is a true sports car in every sense of the word. The Camaro is a pony car.
You can find Camaros that will take Vettes (heavily customized Camaros), but they are still a Camaro.
The Z06 and the ZR1s are Chevy's HP Vettes. A Z28 would not take either a C6 Z06 nor a ZR1.
The Vette is a true sports car in every sense of the word. The Camaro is a pony car.
You can find Camaros that will take Vettes (heavily customized Camaros), but they are still a Camaro.
The Z06 and the ZR1s are Chevy's HP Vettes. A Z28 would not take either a C6 Z06 nor a ZR1.
05-01-2013, 10:16 PM
#43
Team Owner
Yep,... They have also p*$$ed off a lot of the Camaro buyers by only offering the Z/28 as a stripped down track version. Lots of Camaro buyers have been waiting years for the chance to buy a new Z/28. And now many of them feel cheated that GM did this (or the older camaro guys behind the scenes). GM's camaro people kept talking about 1969 this and 1969 that... This is not 1969, this is 2013.
They could have sold a lot more Z/28's if they would have let buyers order the car the way they wanted it instead of a stripped down version. The Z/28 could have been a Home Run like the ZR1 but it looks like some of the older camaro people at GM want to sell the car like they sold it 40+ years ago. This is not the 1969 market place.
The C7 looks like its going to be a Home Run, but they missed another Home Run by blocking many Camaro buyers from being able to get the Z/28 they want. Maybe all they really wanted to do is build a Z/28 "collectible car" they could show off at Barrett-Jackson.
They could have sold a lot more Z/28's if they would have let buyers order the car the way they wanted it instead of a stripped down version. The Z/28 could have been a Home Run like the ZR1 but it looks like some of the older camaro people at GM want to sell the car like they sold it 40+ years ago. This is not the 1969 market place.
The C7 looks like its going to be a Home Run, but they missed another Home Run by blocking many Camaro buyers from being able to get the Z/28 they want. Maybe all they really wanted to do is build a Z/28 "collectible car" they could show off at Barrett-Jackson.
Give them credit for offering the ZL1 to cover the buyers you are referring to.
05-01-2013, 10:35 PM
#45
Too many people get hung up on horsepower numbers when it is only a single component of a very complex package.
Line your car with 500hp against a 160hp motorcycle and see how you do. Today's top flight motorcycles do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds and 0-100 in 4.5. How much hp will it take to beat the weight advantage of the motorcycle?
Why would a 3900 pound car with 500hp be more appealing than a 3300 pound car with 450hp? I'll take the 3300 pound car every time.
Line your car with 500hp against a 160hp motorcycle and see how you do. Today's top flight motorcycles do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds and 0-100 in 4.5. How much hp will it take to beat the weight advantage of the motorcycle?
Why would a 3900 pound car with 500hp be more appealing than a 3300 pound car with 450hp? I'll take the 3300 pound car every time.
05-01-2013, 10:49 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
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The 5th Gen Camaro is a FAT PIG build on a 3,900lb 4 door sedan chassis shared with the Pontiac G8 and not even worth discussing in a Corvette forum.
It was never a "true pony car" or a "real Camaro".
On a positive note, the 2015 Camaro is supposed to FINALLY return to a somewhat lightweight "Alpha" chassis borrowed from the 2013 Cadillac ATS.
If the 2015 is as lightweight as projected, gets a LT1, a TR6070, and priced at current Camaro SS levels, I will probably pick one up for a daily beater if the C7 doesn't offer AWD and DCT by then.
A V8 Camaro with a Alpha chassis, LT1, DCT, and AWD would be the ULTIMATE daily driven sleeper.
It was never a "true pony car" or a "real Camaro".
On a positive note, the 2015 Camaro is supposed to FINALLY return to a somewhat lightweight "Alpha" chassis borrowed from the 2013 Cadillac ATS.
If the 2015 is as lightweight as projected, gets a LT1, a TR6070, and priced at current Camaro SS levels, I will probably pick one up for a daily beater if the C7 doesn't offer AWD and DCT by then.
A V8 Camaro with a Alpha chassis, LT1, DCT, and AWD would be the ULTIMATE daily driven sleeper.
Last edited by 427 C5; 05-01-2013 at 10:51 PM.
05-01-2013, 10:51 PM
#48
The Camaro looks pretty good to me. 
05-01-2013, 11:11 PM
#49
Le Mans Master
I have been a Camaro fan for as long as I can remember. Although the Gen IV's weren't my favorite body style, I was really disappointed by the Gen V in 2010. I was hoping for something a little sleeker, and lighter. (which, although I disagree, I can relate to those that are disappointed with the C7).
But this Z28, there's just something about it that is really cool. In black, with headers and exhaust, yeah, I would if I could.
But this Z28, there's just something about it that is really cool. In black, with headers and exhaust, yeah, I would if I could.
05-02-2013, 02:40 AM
#50
Burning Brakes
History keeps proving Vette guys will always be extremely sensitive about a Camaro (or any car) performing near as good, as good, or better than any Corvette, even if it costs a lot more etc.
Guys, go look at the ZL1's road course times and compare it to a Z06 even. Extremely impressive considering that was a 4200 lb car, not a road course setup. Take a couple hundred lbs out of it, make it a no compromises track car with incredible suspension, brakes, and tires....and you'll probably throw a fit on how fast this thing is.
But....Somehow this car is "not worth discussing on Corvette Forum"
I enjoy the difference between car guys who own Corvettes, and Corvette only guys who will throw a 5 year old fit in their Corvette jacket when anybody suggest that any car no matter what it is could potentially compete against a Corvette.
The GT500 threads were classic
This is spoken as someone who's the son of a guy who's owned more Corvettes than I can rememember, founded a huge Corvette club and I've owned them myself too. Corvettes are by far my favorite car, and my dream car has been and still is a Corvette. I love Ferrari's and all that, but i'd still oddly rather have a Corvette.
But I can at least acknowledge and fully appreciate other fast cars. I 'm really looking forward to seeing track results of both cars, and I personally don't give a damn if a ultra rare car built specifically for the track has better track results than a base C7. I hope they are both fast as hell. Good to see 95% of the people in this thread have the same attitude.
*DUCKS*
Guys, go look at the ZL1's road course times and compare it to a Z06 even. Extremely impressive considering that was a 4200 lb car, not a road course setup. Take a couple hundred lbs out of it, make it a no compromises track car with incredible suspension, brakes, and tires....and you'll probably throw a fit on how fast this thing is.
But....Somehow this car is "not worth discussing on Corvette Forum"
I enjoy the difference between car guys who own Corvettes, and Corvette only guys who will throw a 5 year old fit in their Corvette jacket when anybody suggest that any car no matter what it is could potentially compete against a Corvette.
The GT500 threads were classic
This is spoken as someone who's the son of a guy who's owned more Corvettes than I can rememember, founded a huge Corvette club and I've owned them myself too. Corvettes are by far my favorite car, and my dream car has been and still is a Corvette. I love Ferrari's and all that, but i'd still oddly rather have a Corvette.
But I can at least acknowledge and fully appreciate other fast cars. I 'm really looking forward to seeing track results of both cars, and I personally don't give a damn if a ultra rare car built specifically for the track has better track results than a base C7. I hope they are both fast as hell. Good to see 95% of the people in this thread have the same attitude.
*DUCKS*
05-02-2013, 03:04 AM
#51
Burning Brakes
To add to what I said above..
The ZL1 ran a 7:41 at the ring. That's absolutely insane for a 4200lb car. If you look at the lap times, that's faster than some recorded times by C6Z's, GT3 RS and even a ZR1. Not saying it's faster than all of those cars, but at 7:41, it's a serious performer.
A far as VIR goes, the ZL1 ran a 2:52 there. Again, seriously fast. According to a website listing the fastest lap times for stock production cars, that's a faster lap time than a C6 Z07,GTR, LFA, F430 Scuderia, GT3 etc etc GM has said the Z28 has been a full 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 on their own small private track.
Now take the ZL1:
remove 300 lbs
add even bigger brakes that are now carbon ceramic like the ZR1...hell the rear brakes on the Z28 are bigger than the front's on the ZL1 lol
305's at all 4 corners using a very good and soft R compound
3:91 rear end ratio with helical gear set vs clutch packs
PTM
racing spool valve dampers that are 4 way adjustable, pretty crazy
reworked/better/stiffer suspension and chassis parts all across the board
So adding all of that, to a car that ran 7:42 at the ring and 2:52 at VIR....I think the car will do pretty well on road courses
The ZL1 ran a 7:41 at the ring. That's absolutely insane for a 4200lb car. If you look at the lap times, that's faster than some recorded times by C6Z's, GT3 RS and even a ZR1. Not saying it's faster than all of those cars, but at 7:41, it's a serious performer.
A far as VIR goes, the ZL1 ran a 2:52 there. Again, seriously fast. According to a website listing the fastest lap times for stock production cars, that's a faster lap time than a C6 Z07,GTR, LFA, F430 Scuderia, GT3 etc etc GM has said the Z28 has been a full 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 on their own small private track.
Now take the ZL1:
remove 300 lbs
add even bigger brakes that are now carbon ceramic like the ZR1...hell the rear brakes on the Z28 are bigger than the front's on the ZL1 lol
305's at all 4 corners using a very good and soft R compound
3:91 rear end ratio with helical gear set vs clutch packs
PTM
racing spool valve dampers that are 4 way adjustable, pretty crazy
reworked/better/stiffer suspension and chassis parts all across the board
So adding all of that, to a car that ran 7:42 at the ring and 2:52 at VIR....I think the car will do pretty well on road courses
05-02-2013, 06:51 AM
#52
Burning Brakes
I disagree. I believe the C7 will be about 470hp with vastly improved power and torque under the entire curve making it competitive with the current Z06. Since I doubt a 500hp LS7 Camaro will beat a 505hp LS7 Z06, I can also say I doubt the Z/28 will beat a C7 Z51.
I think the testing should be fun to watch and very interesting.
I think the testing should be fun to watch and very interesting.
I don't think the Z28 testing will be fun for owners of new C7s.
05-02-2013, 09:02 AM
#55
Drifting
Too many people get hung up on horsepower numbers when it is only a single component of a very complex package.
Line your car with 500hp against a 160hp motorcycle and see how you do. Today's top flight motorcycles do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds and 0-100 in 4.5. How much hp will it take to beat the weight advantage of the motorcycle?
Why would a 3900 pound car with 500hp be more appealing than a 3300 pound car with 450hp? I'll take the 3300 pound car every time.
Line your car with 500hp against a 160hp motorcycle and see how you do. Today's top flight motorcycles do 0-60 in less than 3 seconds and 0-100 in 4.5. How much hp will it take to beat the weight advantage of the motorcycle?
Why would a 3900 pound car with 500hp be more appealing than a 3300 pound car with 450hp? I'll take the 3300 pound car every time.
If speed and acceleration were the only consideration, I would take the GTR at 3800+ lbs every time over most Corvettes, but they're ricers and ugly and sound crappy and cost too much. Don't forget that the Z28 gets lower rear end gears as well along with the highest tech non magnetic shock suspension. The Z28 will be an eye opener for many sports car owners.
05-02-2013, 09:09 AM
#56
Safety Car
Member Since: Sep 2004
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History keeps proving Vette guys will always be extremely sensitive about a Camaro (or any car) performing near as good, as good, or better than any Corvette, even if it costs a lot more etc.
Guys, go look at the ZL1's road course times and compare it to a Z06 even. Extremely impressive considering that was a 4200 lb car, not a road course setup. Take a couple hundred lbs out of it, make it a no compromises track car with incredible suspension, brakes, and tires....and you'll probably throw a fit on how fast this thing is.
But....Somehow this car is "not worth discussing on Corvette Forum"
I enjoy the difference between car guys who own Corvettes, and Corvette only guys who will throw a 5 year old fit in their Corvette jacket when anybody suggest that any car no matter what it is could potentially compete against a Corvette.
The GT500 threads were classic
This is spoken as someone who's the son of a guy who's owned more Corvettes than I can rememember, founded a huge Corvette club and I've owned them myself too. Corvettes are by far my favorite car, and my dream car has been and still is a Corvette. I love Ferrari's and all that, but i'd still oddly rather have a Corvette.
But I can at least acknowledge and fully appreciate other fast cars. I 'm really looking forward to seeing track results of both cars, and I personally don't give a damn if a ultra rare car built specifically for the track has better track results than a base C7. I hope they are both fast as hell. Good to see 95% of the people in this thread have the same attitude.
*DUCKS*
Guys, go look at the ZL1's road course times and compare it to a Z06 even. Extremely impressive considering that was a 4200 lb car, not a road course setup. Take a couple hundred lbs out of it, make it a no compromises track car with incredible suspension, brakes, and tires....and you'll probably throw a fit on how fast this thing is.
But....Somehow this car is "not worth discussing on Corvette Forum"
I enjoy the difference between car guys who own Corvettes, and Corvette only guys who will throw a 5 year old fit in their Corvette jacket when anybody suggest that any car no matter what it is could potentially compete against a Corvette.
The GT500 threads were classic
This is spoken as someone who's the son of a guy who's owned more Corvettes than I can rememember, founded a huge Corvette club and I've owned them myself too. Corvettes are by far my favorite car, and my dream car has been and still is a Corvette. I love Ferrari's and all that, but i'd still oddly rather have a Corvette.
But I can at least acknowledge and fully appreciate other fast cars. I 'm really looking forward to seeing track results of both cars, and I personally don't give a damn if a ultra rare car built specifically for the track has better track results than a base C7. I hope they are both fast as hell. Good to see 95% of the people in this thread have the same attitude.
*DUCKS*
To add to what I said above..
The ZL1 ran a 7:41 at the ring. That's absolutely insane for a 4200lb car. If you look at the lap times, that's faster than some recorded times by C6Z's, GT3 RS and even a ZR1. Not saying it's faster than all of those cars, but at 7:41, it's a serious performer.
A far as VIR goes, the ZL1 ran a 2:52 there. Again, seriously fast. According to a website listing the fastest lap times for stock production cars, that's a faster lap time than a C6 Z07,GTR, LFA, F430 Scuderia, GT3 etc etc GM has said the Z28 has been a full 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 on their own small private track.
Now take the ZL1:
remove 300 lbs
add even bigger brakes that are now carbon ceramic like the ZR1...hell the rear brakes on the Z28 are bigger than the front's on the ZL1 lol
305's at all 4 corners using a very good and soft R compound
3:91 rear end ratio with helical gear set vs clutch packs
PTM
racing spool valve dampers that are 4 way adjustable, pretty crazy
reworked/better/stiffer suspension and chassis parts all across the board
So adding all of that, to a car that ran 7:42 at the ring and 2:52 at VIR....I think the car will do pretty well on road courses
The ZL1 ran a 7:41 at the ring. That's absolutely insane for a 4200lb car. If you look at the lap times, that's faster than some recorded times by C6Z's, GT3 RS and even a ZR1. Not saying it's faster than all of those cars, but at 7:41, it's a serious performer.
A far as VIR goes, the ZL1 ran a 2:52 there. Again, seriously fast. According to a website listing the fastest lap times for stock production cars, that's a faster lap time than a C6 Z07,GTR, LFA, F430 Scuderia, GT3 etc etc GM has said the Z28 has been a full 3 seconds faster than the ZL1 on their own small private track.
Now take the ZL1:
remove 300 lbs
add even bigger brakes that are now carbon ceramic like the ZR1...hell the rear brakes on the Z28 are bigger than the front's on the ZL1 lol
305's at all 4 corners using a very good and soft R compound
3:91 rear end ratio with helical gear set vs clutch packs
PTM
racing spool valve dampers that are 4 way adjustable, pretty crazy
reworked/better/stiffer suspension and chassis parts all across the board
So adding all of that, to a car that ran 7:42 at the ring and 2:52 at VIR....I think the car will do pretty well on road courses
Excellent posts! While I love the Corvette, I'm also a car fan above all, and if it's also coming from the General it's icing on the cake IMO. I never get the hate Camaro gets on these forums, seems very defensive and based off some level of insecurity. It's fine to not like the car and it definitely has it's flaws, but as you mentioned by the numbers, it definitely deserves some respect being what it is. It's a pig, but it's one incredibly fast and capable pig. Kudos GM engineers
I can't wait to see what these come up with for the performance versions of the C7, these guys are doing a heck of a job!
05-02-2013, 09:20 AM
#57
Team Owner
The Z28 is very tempting. It looks good and it is going to be fast. You are really comparing apples-to-oranges though.
The Z28 is essentially a track prepped car from the factory. It is going to perform very well and it could very well beat a base C7 depending on the HP level. The Z28 will get spanked by a C6 Z06 carbon which is a track prepped C6 Z06, not quite as extreme as the Z28 but has a lot of the same goodies.
The Z28 is essentially a track prepped car from the factory. It is going to perform very well and it could very well beat a base C7 depending on the HP level. The Z28 will get spanked by a C6 Z06 carbon which is a track prepped C6 Z06, not quite as extreme as the Z28 but has a lot of the same goodies.
05-02-2013, 10:08 AM
#58
I was wondering if someone could set me straight, as I've been a Ford Mustang guy since I was 16. I was always under the impression that Camaros and Mustangs were competitive, and then Corvettes were for the people looking for the next level in both price and performance.
So, now I see that Chevy has a Z28 that has 500hp, built for the track, (probably to compete with the GT-500) and a C7 with ~450hp. I'm 40 now, and to be honest, I really like what I see in the C7, (including the tail lights!) and I am thinking of selling my 2006 500rwhp Mustang, to upgrade to the Corvette. Did Camaro and Corvette swap positions in 2014 in the performance department? If I buy a C7 and then get beat by a stock Z28 on the street, that will really bring some disappointment. Someone help me understand the evolution? Thanks much... It's going to be very interesting to see what the limits of the C7 Engine are, I'm going to want my HP back at some point after my warranty expires...(evil grin)
Thanks,
-Sean Gallagher
So, now I see that Chevy has a Z28 that has 500hp, built for the track, (probably to compete with the GT-500) and a C7 with ~450hp. I'm 40 now, and to be honest, I really like what I see in the C7, (including the tail lights!) and I am thinking of selling my 2006 500rwhp Mustang, to upgrade to the Corvette. Did Camaro and Corvette swap positions in 2014 in the performance department? If I buy a C7 and then get beat by a stock Z28 on the street, that will really bring some disappointment. Someone help me understand the evolution? Thanks much... It's going to be very interesting to see what the limits of the C7 Engine are, I'm going to want my HP back at some point after my warranty expires...(evil grin)
Thanks,
-Sean Gallagher
On a side note, I always sort of thought muscle cars(camaro/mustang) were designed for drag/street speed and sports cars (vette's) were designed for road courses?
Last edited by Socko; 05-02-2013 at 10:12 AM.
05-02-2013, 10:11 AM
#59
American manufacturers started making it a statement that they could make their cars turn just as well if not better than everyone elses around 05-06 IMO. So far so good.
05-02-2013, 10:19 AM
#60
Team Owner
If you want to believe the Z28 will weigh 3900 lbs to bolster your argument, go ahead, but a current Camaro SS with few options weighs only 3820. GM says they're taking 260 lbs off the Z28 (according to Camaro5) which would bring the Z28 to 35XX lbs.
If speed and acceleration were the only consideration, I would take the GTR at 3800+ lbs every time over most Corvettes, but they're ricers and ugly and sound crappy and cost too much. Don't forget that the Z28 gets lower rear end gears as well along with the highest tech non magnetic shock suspension. The Z28 will be an eye opener for many sports car owners.
If speed and acceleration were the only consideration, I would take the GTR at 3800+ lbs every time over most Corvettes, but they're ricers and ugly and sound crappy and cost too much. Don't forget that the Z28 gets lower rear end gears as well along with the highest tech non magnetic shock suspension. The Z28 will be an eye opener for many sports car owners.
