The future of collecting C7 Corvettes and other high tech cars.
#21
Burning Brakes
I think there are a lot of modern cars that are potential collector items. Think from a Corvette perspective. Look at how the 1996 Grand Sport has held its value in recent years. The 2003 Anniversary Red special and 2004 Commemorative Editions are on their way to becoming collector cars and I think the 2013 60th anniversary 427 will be someday as well.
There are a lot of exotics that I think will appreciate in value over time as well. The Ferrari Enzo already has, and I think the 360 Challenge Stradale, 430 Scuderia and 599 GTO will as well. The Murcielago SV might too.
There are a lot of exotics that I think will appreciate in value over time as well. The Ferrari Enzo already has, and I think the 360 Challenge Stradale, 430 Scuderia and 599 GTO will as well. The Murcielago SV might too.
#22
Precisely my point. Unless GM sells the schematics and code to another company, someone (either an individual in their garage or a company) will have to reverse engineer the module. It is just as big a task as the original engineering project. It's not as simple as some people think.
Say some company does it, then how much will those modules cost?
Say some company does it, then how much will those modules cost?
Maybe the bigger question is will the company survive long enough to license this tech to aftermarket suppliers and who would those suppliers be?
Last edited by BlueOx; 05-21-2013 at 01:51 PM.
#23
Le Mans Master
I have to say though that the public's current fascination with 3D printers seems excessive and very late-in-coming. I remember getting excited about stereolithography when I first encountered it, too... in the late 1980s!
Why wasn't there similar public excitement about CNC milling machines? Bolt down a billet, download some G-code, hit go, and boom - a gleaming metal part and a bunch of chips.
People are being invited to think of a 3D printer like the Replicator from Star Trek, which it isn't.
#24
Le Mans Master
Then you have us older Gen X'ers who are in the middle.
Weened on Carbs, and grew into F.I..
C7's will be collectable.
C4's in general will start to rise, but I see them more as the resto mods of the near future. You can update and backdate this generation at will.
C5's and C6's will bottom out now with the economy and the arrival of the new C7. It will take them the 30 to 40 years to be desired again.
Weened on Carbs, and grew into F.I..
C7's will be collectable.
C4's in general will start to rise, but I see them more as the resto mods of the near future. You can update and backdate this generation at will.
C5's and C6's will bottom out now with the economy and the arrival of the new C7. It will take them the 30 to 40 years to be desired again.
#25
When I consider the integration of both hardware and software in automobiles of today, I wonder what the future will hold for car collectors.
So many of the functions of the C7 and other modern cars is controlled by a "computer" and other electronic components, what do you think the longevity will be of those parts in order to have a collector C7 car run properly 40-50 years from now. (It won't be my problem, just pondering the issue)
Every time I hit the door open button on a C6 I just can't believe that the component will be good for half a century. Will replacement parts still be available?
Has the computer age killed the possibility of todays cars still running and drivable in 50 years?
So many of the functions of the C7 and other modern cars is controlled by a "computer" and other electronic components, what do you think the longevity will be of those parts in order to have a collector C7 car run properly 40-50 years from now. (It won't be my problem, just pondering the issue)
Every time I hit the door open button on a C6 I just can't believe that the component will be good for half a century. Will replacement parts still be available?
Has the computer age killed the possibility of todays cars still running and drivable in 50 years?
#26
The bigger problem will be finding gas for these cars. I have to believe that electric cars or some other non-polluting propulsion system will be the norm in 50 years and the technology that controls them will be complex. The cars they are building today will be as exciting as the horse and buggy are to us now.
Last edited by ArcticC7; 05-21-2013 at 03:53 PM.
#27
Safety Car
How much was gas then?
What was the carbon footprint of vehicles then?
#28
Safety Car
Fuel is not, and will not be a problem. We have an abundance of fuel here in America. If we would get government off our backs, we have the resources and ability for thousands of years. Don't need a drop of import.
#29
Steve l.
#30
Race Director
I had a good laugh as 40 years from now I'll be dust.
There will always be something better to take it's place and I'm sure people who want to drive these cars will have a way to make them work
There will always be something better to take it's place and I'm sure people who want to drive these cars will have a way to make them work
#31
Steve L.
#32
#33
Melting Slicks
Collecting is usually about how many were made and how many of those have survived at any given point in time.
Then you mix into the equation how desirable the car was when new and how desirable it is at any point down the road.
Older Ferraris, which were rarely made in huge numbers, have to have a lot of replacement parts manufactured from scratch because there are no factory replacement parts.
In the future it is likely that replacing or duplicating a complex electronic box will be much easier than designing a hand tooled mechanical component for a 60 year old Ferrari or a 70 year old Rolls.
Then you mix into the equation how desirable the car was when new and how desirable it is at any point down the road.
Older Ferraris, which were rarely made in huge numbers, have to have a lot of replacement parts manufactured from scratch because there are no factory replacement parts.
In the future it is likely that replacing or duplicating a complex electronic box will be much easier than designing a hand tooled mechanical component for a 60 year old Ferrari or a 70 year old Rolls.
#34
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
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You are assuming someone will have to reverse engineer a control module. I'm assuming these things will either be sold by or licensed from GM or whoever.
Then again there are folks who can/will repair them.
http://www.ecudoctors.com/
Then again there are folks who can/will repair them.
http://www.ecudoctors.com/
Bill
#35
Team Owner
Precisely my point. Unless GM sells the schematics and code to another company, someone (either an individual in their garage or a company) will have to reverse engineer the module. It is just as big a task as the original engineering project. It's not as simple as some people think.
Say some company does it, then how much will those modules cost?
Say some company does it, then how much will those modules cost?
#36
Le Mans Master
Nowadays most of these units are boat anchors for want of one unobtainable part.
#38
Le Mans Master
Reverse-engineered emulated hardware running copied firmware runs into numerous dumb legal problems. Perhaps in 40 years things will have become so intractable they'll have reformed the system.
#39
Le Mans Master
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Quite the opposite now... Before the hardware was run by firmware burnt on a PROM and a board that managed hardware control via an IC. Today we're using computers similar to what we're using on our desktops that control the hardware. If there's one out there that works, it can be copied. Honestly, reverse engineering this stuff will get easier as time goes on.
40 years from now, the computers in the C7 will be childs play.
40 years from now, the computers in the C7 will be childs play.
#40
A lot of old cars run much more reliably with modern electronic conversions (Pertronix/MSD ignition, Megasquirt EFI). As for the ECU, GM has done basically all of the hard work, in terms of input/output channels and algorithms and how they work with the other subsystems. Remember when Nissan said the GT-R's proprietary programming would be all but impossible to crack? That lasted all of what, one month. If you tell programmers and hackers they can't do something, odds are good that they will try to find a way around it and if it supplements their income, that's all the better.
The question is, is today's ECU for a Corvette with the full suite of electronics (PTM, launch control, active handling, magnetic shocks, etc) much more expensive than it is for, say, a C4? With BMWs, a V8 M3 ECU is actually less expensive than for an old 4-banger M3. Part of this may be due to volume, which gets into the next point.
It will be interesting to see if today's Ferraris are collectible like they were before. I suspect there are simply too many built, outside of the once in a decade hypercars. And they are built much better, last longer, and it's almost pointless to find cars with ultra low miles because people are driving them more and more, because they are more reliable (and easier to drive with automated transmissions). There's a paradox among collectors for old cars: A pristine, low mileage car might fetch a lot of money, but a car needs to be exercised to keeps seals fresh, parts from oxidizing or seizing up. That pristine car might cost a small fortune to put right.
Will the youth of tomorrow really covet them like today's collectors? Very hard to say. While emerging markets like China and the Middle East have fueled an increase in Ferrari production, it remains to be seen that audiences that buy new cars for the bling and flash factor will really care about heritage or exclusivity.
The question is, is today's ECU for a Corvette with the full suite of electronics (PTM, launch control, active handling, magnetic shocks, etc) much more expensive than it is for, say, a C4? With BMWs, a V8 M3 ECU is actually less expensive than for an old 4-banger M3. Part of this may be due to volume, which gets into the next point.
It will be interesting to see if today's Ferraris are collectible like they were before. I suspect there are simply too many built, outside of the once in a decade hypercars. And they are built much better, last longer, and it's almost pointless to find cars with ultra low miles because people are driving them more and more, because they are more reliable (and easier to drive with automated transmissions). There's a paradox among collectors for old cars: A pristine, low mileage car might fetch a lot of money, but a car needs to be exercised to keeps seals fresh, parts from oxidizing or seizing up. That pristine car might cost a small fortune to put right.
Will the youth of tomorrow really covet them like today's collectors? Very hard to say. While emerging markets like China and the Middle East have fueled an increase in Ferrari production, it remains to be seen that audiences that buy new cars for the bling and flash factor will really care about heritage or exclusivity.