The LT1 is severely detuned in stock form.
08-01-2013, 11:12 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
The LT1 is severely detuned in stock form.
There are TWO major factors that stick out huge to me that say that the LT1 has been purposely muzzled.
First, the Direct Injection.
Adding Direct Injection to an LS3 all by itself would allow for a 460hp production power output without even thinking twice. The advantages of ignition timing advancement with direct injection make this possible.
Secondly, compression ratio.
The LS3 has a compression raio of 10.7:1
The LT1 has a compression ratio of 11.5:1
That large of a compression ratio increase all by itself on a 6.2 liter V8 would net at least the 30 hp difference between the LT1 and the LS3 in otherwise stock form.
For the LT1, add in other more minor, but important factors, like revised head flow, variable timing (not necessarily a hp increaser), cam profiles and you have an engine that should easily be making 500 horsepower.
Gentlemen, IMO, a custom tuned C7 with an aftermarket intake system alone will put the C7 at over 510 hp.
Apples to Oranges (OHV vs DOHC), but the 5.0 in the Mustang gains nearly 40whp with an intake and tune. The C7 is going to respond even better to the same modifications.
In a few short weeks we will be finding out how close I am to guessing this.
I wouldn't be surprised to see near 450whp with the intake and tune.
First, the Direct Injection.
Adding Direct Injection to an LS3 all by itself would allow for a 460hp production power output without even thinking twice. The advantages of ignition timing advancement with direct injection make this possible.
Secondly, compression ratio.
The LS3 has a compression raio of 10.7:1
The LT1 has a compression ratio of 11.5:1
That large of a compression ratio increase all by itself on a 6.2 liter V8 would net at least the 30 hp difference between the LT1 and the LS3 in otherwise stock form.
For the LT1, add in other more minor, but important factors, like revised head flow, variable timing (not necessarily a hp increaser), cam profiles and you have an engine that should easily be making 500 horsepower.
Gentlemen, IMO, a custom tuned C7 with an aftermarket intake system alone will put the C7 at over 510 hp.
Apples to Oranges (OHV vs DOHC), but the 5.0 in the Mustang gains nearly 40whp with an intake and tune. The C7 is going to respond even better to the same modifications.
In a few short weeks we will be finding out how close I am to guessing this.
I wouldn't be surprised to see near 450whp with the intake and tune.
08-01-2013, 11:36 PM
#3
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '06
Yep, probably the second year of the C7 (for sure the 3rd year 2016 models) will probably get a bump up of about 20 to 25HP, like the C5 Z, leaving a lot of PISSED off 2014 first year buyers. 
08-01-2013, 11:44 PM
#4
Race Director
I'm thinking Chevy brings back an upgraded LT1 engine option (75 hp more ?) to be placed
in-between the current C7 base and the likely one future hi-perf. variant C7 model.
in-between the current C7 base and the likely one future hi-perf. variant C7 model.
08-02-2013, 12:38 AM
#5
There are TWO major factors that stick out huge to me that say that the LT1 has been purposely muzzled.
First, the Direct Injection.
Adding Direct Injection to an LS3 all by itself would allow for a 460hp production power output without even thinking twice. The advantages of ignition timing advancement with direct injection make this possible.
Secondly, compression ratio.
The LS3 has a compression raio of 10.7:1
The LT1 has a compression ratio of 11.5:1
That large of a compression ratio increase all by itself on a 6.2 liter V8 would net at least the 30 hp difference between the LT1 and the LS3 in otherwise stock form.
For the LT1, add in other more minor, but important factors, like revised head flow, variable timing (not necessarily a hp increaser), cam profiles and you have an engine that should easily be making 500 horsepower.
Gentlemen, IMO, a custom tuned C7 with an aftermarket intake system alone will put the C7 at over 510 hp.
Apples to Oranges (OHV vs DOHC), but the 5.0 in the Mustang gains nearly 40whp with an intake and tune. The C7 is going to respond even better to the same modifications.
In a few short weeks we will be finding out how close I am to guessing this.
I wouldn't be surprised to see near 450whp with the intake and tune.
First, the Direct Injection.
Adding Direct Injection to an LS3 all by itself would allow for a 460hp production power output without even thinking twice. The advantages of ignition timing advancement with direct injection make this possible.
Secondly, compression ratio.
The LS3 has a compression raio of 10.7:1
The LT1 has a compression ratio of 11.5:1
That large of a compression ratio increase all by itself on a 6.2 liter V8 would net at least the 30 hp difference between the LT1 and the LS3 in otherwise stock form.
For the LT1, add in other more minor, but important factors, like revised head flow, variable timing (not necessarily a hp increaser), cam profiles and you have an engine that should easily be making 500 horsepower.
Gentlemen, IMO, a custom tuned C7 with an aftermarket intake system alone will put the C7 at over 510 hp.
Apples to Oranges (OHV vs DOHC), but the 5.0 in the Mustang gains nearly 40whp with an intake and tune. The C7 is going to respond even better to the same modifications.
In a few short weeks we will be finding out how close I am to guessing this.
I wouldn't be surprised to see near 450whp with the intake and tune.
A .8 increase in CR (which is not a large increase BTW) will not increase HP by 30 on a 430 HP engine, more like only 8 HP. There are many online calculators that will confirm this, look for them with your favorite search engine.
The cam profile determines the HP capability of an engine...a lot of people are going to be disappointed if they think 455 HP engine will produce 510 HP after a simple tune.
08-02-2013, 01:12 AM
#7
There are TWO major factors that stick out huge to me that say that the LT1 has been purposely muzzled.
First, the Direct Injection.
Adding Direct Injection to an LS3 all by itself would allow for a 460hp production power output without even thinking twice. The advantages of ignition timing advancement with direct injection make this possible.
Secondly, compression ratio.
The LS3 has a compression raio of 10.7:1
The LT1 has a compression ratio of 11.5:1
That large of a compression ratio increase all by itself on a 6.2 liter V8 would net at least the 30 hp difference between the LT1 and the LS3 in otherwise stock form.
For the LT1, add in other more minor, but important factors, like revised head flow, variable timing (not necessarily a hp increaser), cam profiles and you have an engine that should easily be making 500 horsepower.
Gentlemen, IMO, a custom tuned C7 with an aftermarket intake system alone will put the C7 at over 510 hp.
Apples to Oranges (OHV vs DOHC), but the 5.0 in the Mustang gains nearly 40whp with an intake and tune. The C7 is going to respond even better to the same modifications.
In a few short weeks we will be finding out how close I am to guessing this.
I wouldn't be surprised to see near 450whp with the intake and tune.
First, the Direct Injection.
Adding Direct Injection to an LS3 all by itself would allow for a 460hp production power output without even thinking twice. The advantages of ignition timing advancement with direct injection make this possible.
Secondly, compression ratio.
The LS3 has a compression raio of 10.7:1
The LT1 has a compression ratio of 11.5:1
That large of a compression ratio increase all by itself on a 6.2 liter V8 would net at least the 30 hp difference between the LT1 and the LS3 in otherwise stock form.
For the LT1, add in other more minor, but important factors, like revised head flow, variable timing (not necessarily a hp increaser), cam profiles and you have an engine that should easily be making 500 horsepower.
Gentlemen, IMO, a custom tuned C7 with an aftermarket intake system alone will put the C7 at over 510 hp.
Apples to Oranges (OHV vs DOHC), but the 5.0 in the Mustang gains nearly 40whp with an intake and tune. The C7 is going to respond even better to the same modifications.
In a few short weeks we will be finding out how close I am to guessing this.
I wouldn't be surprised to see near 450whp with the intake and tune.
08-02-2013, 02:06 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
I ould argue that the point where maximun HP is reached is 15-17 degrees (rather than 12) ... but I won't beacue without a dyno no one can realy tell.
08-02-2013, 08:46 AM
#10
08-02-2013, 09:11 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
No, it will not. The cylinder head flow from a DOHC set-up is far superior. Therefore, intake and exhaust mods will yield much better gains because of this. All of that power is derived from the flow of the cylinder heads. And an added bonus, DOHC+ boost= Big power, more so than a pushrod.
To your point on DOHC, one needs look no further than the 20+ year old LT5 to see how modest upgrades result in pretty impressive power gains.
We have several stock block 5.7L LT5s putting down 450+ whp and 400+rwtq with porting, cam and exhaust upgrades. Displacement increases result in nearly 700hp motors N/A.
08-02-2013, 09:27 AM
#12
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08-02-2013, 09:28 AM
#13
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you doubled up on one aspect:
direct injection alone doesn't increase HP. What one can do with timing and compression ratio changes with direct injection - is where the power increase is coming from.
You're counting the same thing... twice.
First, the Direct Injection.
Adding Direct Injection to an LS3 all by itself would allow for a 460hp production power output without even thinking twice.
--------------------------------
Secondly, compression ratio.
That large of a compression ratio increase all by itself on a 6.2 liter V8 would net at least the 30 hp difference between the LT1 and the LS3 in otherwise stock form.
Adding Direct Injection to an LS3 all by itself would allow for a 460hp production power output without even thinking twice.
--------------------------------
Secondly, compression ratio.
That large of a compression ratio increase all by itself on a 6.2 liter V8 would net at least the 30 hp difference between the LT1 and the LS3 in otherwise stock form.
You're counting the same thing... twice.
08-02-2013, 09:41 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: North Dallas 40 TX
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Could you download the HPTuners software and go into their C7 file and tell us where to identify this conservative tune?
It is a fascinating file.
Remember that the cam has about 3 degrees less duration on th eintake side than the LS3, IIRC.
It is a fascinating file.
Remember that the cam has about 3 degrees less duration on th eintake side than the LS3, IIRC.
08-02-2013, 10:28 AM
#15
There is lots of power still on the table, but how much? I'm going to wait and see rather than make guesses. I do think it's funny how people are acting like DOHC is SOOO much better than push rod design. We all know god mad the LS and LT motors 
08-02-2013, 11:00 AM
#16
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Isn't that what all car makers do? Saves on warranty costs. Folks like us get a detuned car, get a custom tune void the warranty and GM is off scott free. Pretty good idea. Same as the C5 and C6. Nothing new here.
08-02-2013, 11:54 AM
#17
And along those lines, what if the custom tune unleashes enough power to the point where owners start breaking stuff. Driveline, suspension or what not. Did GM build a vette that can only handle the power it has currently? Maybe that's the reason for the 'reasonable' price?
08-02-2013, 12:15 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
I know I'm crazy and all, but I would much rather have a 200,000 mile car than 30 more horsepower. 455 is easily enough to get into big trouble. Anything more has got to be for the racers who either run quarters/miles on their spare time, or race public streets.
I may be in the minority on this forum, but probably right in line with the rest of the world. If you're the kind of person that keeps racing slicks handy, the stock form of the car really shouldn't be as important as the potential adjustment cost ratio.
I'm still waiting for restrictions like Japan has. New cars in Japan are limited to IIRC ~110MPH until the GPS detects you're on a race track. Once the GPS unlocks the car, you can really open it up.
I may be in the minority on this forum, but probably right in line with the rest of the world. If you're the kind of person that keeps racing slicks handy, the stock form of the car really shouldn't be as important as the potential adjustment cost ratio.
I'm still waiting for restrictions like Japan has. New cars in Japan are limited to IIRC ~110MPH until the GPS detects you're on a race track. Once the GPS unlocks the car, you can really open it up.
08-02-2013, 12:19 PM
#20
I know I'm crazy and all, but I would much rather have a 200,000 mile car than 30 more horsepower. 455 is easily enough to get into big trouble. Anything more has got to be for the racers who either run quarters/miles on their spare time, or race public streets.
I may be in the minority on this forum, but probably right in line with the rest of the world. If you're the kind of person that keeps racing slicks handy, the stock form of the car really shouldn't be as important as the potential adjustment cost ratio.
I'm still waiting for restrictions like Japan has. New cars in Japan are limited to IIRC ~110MPH until the GPS detects you're on a race track. Once the GPS unlocks the car, you can really open it up.
I may be in the minority on this forum, but probably right in line with the rest of the world. If you're the kind of person that keeps racing slicks handy, the stock form of the car really shouldn't be as important as the potential adjustment cost ratio.
I'm still waiting for restrictions like Japan has. New cars in Japan are limited to IIRC ~110MPH until the GPS detects you're on a race track. Once the GPS unlocks the car, you can really open it up.
Oh boy, wouldn't that suck.