Edmunds C7 vs 911 comparison test
09-09-2013, 07:21 AM
#21
Nice review!
The comments on the steering feel and the performance of the C7 are impressive. It will be interesting to see how all of the other magazines compare the car. People need to remember, the $140,000 991 911S is no joke and C7 performed amazingly against it.
For an additional $70,000 the Porsche damn well be better sorted inside
. The C7 is still a huge improvement and remarkable inside for the $$$.
The comments on the steering feel and the performance of the C7 are impressive. It will be interesting to see how all of the other magazines compare the car. People need to remember, the $140,000 991 911S is no joke and C7 performed amazingly against it.
For an additional $70,000 the Porsche damn well be better sorted inside
. The C7 is still a huge improvement and remarkable inside for the $$$.
09-09-2013, 07:48 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2007
Posts: 750
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The criticism about the touchscreen and the tire noise are minor things that can be addressed right away. Still even in the interior the gap between these two cars have closed significatly.
But the Vette Team has to be happy with this car they really nailed it the car has the whole package and is world class in every area.
But the Vette Team has to be happy with this car they really nailed it the car has the whole package and is world class in every area.
Last edited by ivanjo11; 09-09-2013 at 07:50 AM.
09-09-2013, 08:09 AM
#23
Racer
Member Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Be happy that the 911 vs the C7 matchup is as even as it is. This help me justify selling my 2009 C4S 911 with PDK and ordering a C7 z51 mrc, 7 speed manual for my new daily driver. And I am fortunate enough to keep my 2007 911 GT3 with track seats, 6pt harness. Now my DD (till c7 delivered)
Potentially could compare them daily. The driving dynamics between the two should be interesting.
Potentially could compare them daily. The driving dynamics between the two should be interesting.
09-09-2013, 08:12 AM
#24
Pro
I think the C7 did quite well. The 911 is also way over optioned. It could be had for much less but it still would be a large gap between the two cars as far as price.
The C7 has the performance. 0-60 doesn't mean much to me. I think the lap time is more representative of the cars true performance ability.
I still think it is funny how these two car are compared. I like both cars, personally. But I think cars of similar price should be compared. The C7 should be run against the Cayman S (with low options) or a base Cayman with high options. Similar price points.
As much as I like the Cayman, the C7 would walk all over it.
The 911 should be run against the Z07 when it comes out. A much closer price point.
But even with the Major price difference, the Corvette faired very well.
The C7 has the performance. 0-60 doesn't mean much to me. I think the lap time is more representative of the cars true performance ability.
I still think it is funny how these two car are compared. I like both cars, personally. But I think cars of similar price should be compared. The C7 should be run against the Cayman S (with low options) or a base Cayman with high options. Similar price points.
As much as I like the Cayman, the C7 would walk all over it.
The 911 should be run against the Z07 when it comes out. A much closer price point.
But even with the Major price difference, the Corvette faired very well.
09-09-2013, 08:16 AM
#25
Race Director
I look forward to more independent testing from car and driver..
I enjoy edmunds videos yet I never believe their tests....
I'm sure they do their best so its not a flame to them...
I just never find their test results quite accurate and the same here...
I enjoy edmunds videos yet I never believe their tests....
I'm sure they do their best so its not a flame to them...
I just never find their test results quite accurate and the same here...
09-09-2013, 08:23 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2007
Posts: 750
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the C7 did quite well. The 911 is also way over optioned. It could be had for much less but it still would be a large gap between the two cars as far as price.
The C7 has the performance. 0-60 doesn't mean much to me. I think the lap time is more representative of the cars true performance ability.
I still think it is funny how these two car are compared. I like both cars, personally. But I think cars of similar price should be compared. The C7 should be run against the Cayman S (with low options) or a base Cayman with high options. Similar price points.
As much as I like the Cayman, the C7 would walk all over it.
The 911 should be run against the Z07 when it comes out. A much closer price point.
But even with the Major price difference, the Corvette faired very well.
The C7 has the performance. 0-60 doesn't mean much to me. I think the lap time is more representative of the cars true performance ability.
I still think it is funny how these two car are compared. I like both cars, personally. But I think cars of similar price should be compared. The C7 should be run against the Cayman S (with low options) or a base Cayman with high options. Similar price points.
As much as I like the Cayman, the C7 would walk all over it.
The 911 should be run against the Z07 when it comes out. A much closer price point.
But even with the Major price difference, the Corvette faired very well.
09-09-2013, 08:27 AM
#27
If the 911 is such a great car then why is it no one else makes a sports car with the engine in the back, it is just stupid.
Every new model 911 test for the past 30 years says how each time they have dialed out the snap rear end, much better in this version, no issues anymore, haha I mean every review.
When you talk about 911 to Vette, we should also talk about cost of repairs after warranty, you better have deep pockets for the 911.
The Stingray is by far the best value out there for a super car, no one is even close, thank you Chevrolet.
How do same price cars compare to the Stingray, hahahaha.
Every new model 911 test for the past 30 years says how each time they have dialed out the snap rear end, much better in this version, no issues anymore, haha I mean every review.
When you talk about 911 to Vette, we should also talk about cost of repairs after warranty, you better have deep pockets for the 911.
The Stingray is by far the best value out there for a super car, no one is even close, thank you Chevrolet.
How do same price cars compare to the Stingray, hahahaha.
09-09-2013, 09:25 AM
#28
Melting Slicks
I'd say the C7 fared quite well compared to prior comparisons with previous generation vettes to 911's. I would like to have seen them compare the manual C7 with the manual 911 to see a more apples to apples. We all know the PDK is great, but I'd be more likely to purchase a full manual and would like to see it compared.
09-09-2013, 09:32 AM
#29
Pro
You are right, they will. Again those will be $50k more in price (turbos even more). Any again they will give the much more expensive car the edge.
Last edited by Periokid; 09-09-2013 at 09:41 AM.
09-09-2013, 09:39 AM
#30
Pro
When you talk about 911 to Vette, we should also talk about cost of repairs after warranty, you better have deep pockets for the 911.
The Stingray is by far the best value out there for a super car, no one is even close, thank you Chevrolet.
How do same price cars compare to the Stingray, hahahaha.
I don't think anyone can argue that the Corvette is the best sports car for the money.
09-09-2013, 09:43 AM
#31
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 5,754
Received 536 Likes
on
279 Posts
St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
I'd say the C7 fared quite well compared to prior comparisons with previous generation vettes to 911's. I would like to have seen them compare the manual C7 with the manual 911 to see a more apples to apples. We all know the PDK is great, but I'd be more likely to purchase a full manual and would like to see it compared.
Everyone talks about options on one vs the other yet the MT vs PDK will not give the same results as AT vs PDK. Lets see what THAT review says. My bet is that the C7 with an AT will not fare nearly as well as the MT and if history is a good guide, 60-70% of all vettes sold will be AT. Lets really level the review playground.
09-09-2013, 10:08 AM
#33
09-09-2013, 10:23 AM
#34
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,247
Received 5,443 Likes
on
2,270 Posts
Looks like a pretty decent test.
I like the comments on the torque of the vette. It's one of the primary factors making the vette such a fun car to drive.
I appears they gave their honest review of the interior. Vette is much better but not as nice as the Porsche.
It also appears exterior styling played a significant role in the decision. I find the Porsche unattractive, and have for years which is why I don't have one. On the other hand, some folks think the C7 may be a bit overstyled. Seems this was how the testers reacted as well, and it seems, at least with these testers, it cost the vette in this comparison.
I like the comments on the torque of the vette. It's one of the primary factors making the vette such a fun car to drive.
I appears they gave their honest review of the interior. Vette is much better but not as nice as the Porsche.
It also appears exterior styling played a significant role in the decision. I find the Porsche unattractive, and have for years which is why I don't have one. On the other hand, some folks think the C7 may be a bit overstyled. Seems this was how the testers reacted as well, and it seems, at least with these testers, it cost the vette in this comparison.
09-09-2013, 10:36 AM
#35
Le Mans Master
09-09-2013, 10:37 AM
#36
Scraping the splitter.
The 911 is the most bland, unattractive, boring and stale designed "sports car" out there in any price range. The GT3 and Turbo models somewhat mitigate this with various styling changes, but the core of the car is still ugly.
S.
09-09-2013, 10:58 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
Not sure how debatable it is, at least for those who review the cars in magazines. I've yet to see a Vette beat a 911 in a comparison test, so I strongly feel that something "real" is making journalists choose the 911 as the better car.
With that said (and without having driven either car) I do wonder if at some point a car that is so good, just becomes a little boring and clinical, especially in daily driving (don't really think any car can be clinical at the track). For example, my GTI, which is a very well regarded compact, is a little boring IMO. Exhaust is somewhat plain, interior is nice and logical, but doesn't have much in the way of passion (except the plaid seats). Everything is quite good, but nothing really sticks out as fun.
My 350Z on the other hand is rarely rated as a great car (would usually lose out to an S2000, Boxster, BMW Z, etc), but it sure is fun to me. Shifter is stiff but very short, steering is heavy but has very nice feel (after some mods), ride is stiff but lively, exhaust has a nice burble. That car makes things fun even when you aren't pushing very hard.
I drove a friends Cayman and came away slightly disappointed due to the relative lack of torque, somewhat boring exhaust note, and relative perfection of the drive. Previously the Cayman had been my "dream car", but after that drive I'm not so sure anymore. Although a coworker has the new style and every time I walk by a little drool manages to excape my lips.
The Vette, even though it may be less refined than the 911, might be more fun in some ways for those very reasons. It will be interesting to see how bad the road noise really is, and how plasticky it smells and whether some of the less refined aspects actually add to the fun of driving.
I've mentioned in another thread that another co-worker of mine has the new SRT Viper, and that car is not very refined at all, but the sheer craziness of it makes you smile every time you see it or sit down in it, even if you don't start the engine. So, for me personally, the lack of refinement in some of these cars may actually be an advantage.
-T
With that said (and without having driven either car) I do wonder if at some point a car that is so good, just becomes a little boring and clinical, especially in daily driving (don't really think any car can be clinical at the track). For example, my GTI, which is a very well regarded compact, is a little boring IMO. Exhaust is somewhat plain, interior is nice and logical, but doesn't have much in the way of passion (except the plaid seats). Everything is quite good, but nothing really sticks out as fun.
My 350Z on the other hand is rarely rated as a great car (would usually lose out to an S2000, Boxster, BMW Z, etc), but it sure is fun to me. Shifter is stiff but very short, steering is heavy but has very nice feel (after some mods), ride is stiff but lively, exhaust has a nice burble. That car makes things fun even when you aren't pushing very hard.
I drove a friends Cayman and came away slightly disappointed due to the relative lack of torque, somewhat boring exhaust note, and relative perfection of the drive. Previously the Cayman had been my "dream car", but after that drive I'm not so sure anymore. Although a coworker has the new style and every time I walk by a little drool manages to excape my lips.
The Vette, even though it may be less refined than the 911, might be more fun in some ways for those very reasons. It will be interesting to see how bad the road noise really is, and how plasticky it smells and whether some of the less refined aspects actually add to the fun of driving.
I've mentioned in another thread that another co-worker of mine has the new SRT Viper, and that car is not very refined at all, but the sheer craziness of it makes you smile every time you see it or sit down in it, even if you don't start the engine. So, for me personally, the lack of refinement in some of these cars may actually be an advantage.
-T
But the fact that the 911 always wins sort of goes along with what SCM and I have always been saying about these mags and comparisons to the germans.
Again, though, I don't doubt that the 911 is better than the Corvette in some ways, and more ways for some people. But what I doubt is that the Porsche is necessarily the better car, even if price is not a factor... let alone if it is. As you said yourself, there are things the Corvette offers that the Porsche does not, too. Like the brutishness you talk about above, which is certainly an advantage for a lot of people in this segment. I think you can probably name one such C7 advantage for just about every equivalent advantage the Porsche has. Some based on preference, some not so much.
Last edited by RocketGuy3; 09-09-2013 at 11:03 AM.
09-09-2013, 11:29 AM
#38
Drifting
Track times are great for the very few who race and those who enjoy having bragging rights. Whether its quarter mile times or laps around Laguna Seca it doesn't matter to me as I don't drag race my car and I'll never take it to Laguna Seca.
What I actually do is drive the car to run errands, zip down the highway going from place to place and, occasionally, take a quick run down a back road. 99% of the time there's too much traffic to experience more than a fraction of the car's potential.
The 911 is very close to being a hand made car with extremely tight tolerances, great materials and impressive engineering.
The Corvette comes off an assembly line with much looser tolerances, cheaper materials and impressive engineering.
As a daily driver, I prefer the Corvette because I can drive it and eat and put a roof over my head. The Porsche? Not so much.
I believe the Porsche is a better daily driver but, so what? Its not affordable, to me.
And if money is no object, I'm taking the 458 Italia and jumping right over the Porsche.
There's always something a little nice, a lot more expensive. Acknowledging it is OK.
What I actually do is drive the car to run errands, zip down the highway going from place to place and, occasionally, take a quick run down a back road. 99% of the time there's too much traffic to experience more than a fraction of the car's potential.
The 911 is very close to being a hand made car with extremely tight tolerances, great materials and impressive engineering.
The Corvette comes off an assembly line with much looser tolerances, cheaper materials and impressive engineering.
As a daily driver, I prefer the Corvette because I can drive it and eat and put a roof over my head. The Porsche? Not so much.
I believe the Porsche is a better daily driver but, so what? Its not affordable, to me.
And if money is no object, I'm taking the 458 Italia and jumping right over the Porsche.
There's always something a little nice, a lot more expensive. Acknowledging it is OK.
09-09-2013, 11:37 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
Track times are great for the very few who race and those who enjoy having bragging rights. Whether its quarter mile times or laps around Laguna Seca it doesn't matter to me as I don't drag race my car and I'll never take it to Laguna Seca.
What I actually do is drive the car to run errands, zip down the highway going from place to place and, occasionally, take a quick run down a back road. 99% of the time there's too much traffic to experience more than a fraction of the car's potential.
The 911 is very close to being a hand made car with extremely tight tolerances, great materials and impressive engineering.
The Corvette comes off an assembly line with much looser tolerances, cheaper materials and impressive engineering.
As a daily driver, I prefer the Corvette because I can drive it and eat and put a roof over my head. The Porsche? Not so much.
I believe the Porsche is a better daily driver but, so what? Its not affordable, to me.
And if money is no object, I'm taking the 458 Italia and jumping right over the Porsche.
There's always something a little nice, a lot more expensive. Acknowledging it is OK.
What I actually do is drive the car to run errands, zip down the highway going from place to place and, occasionally, take a quick run down a back road. 99% of the time there's too much traffic to experience more than a fraction of the car's potential.
The 911 is very close to being a hand made car with extremely tight tolerances, great materials and impressive engineering.
The Corvette comes off an assembly line with much looser tolerances, cheaper materials and impressive engineering.
As a daily driver, I prefer the Corvette because I can drive it and eat and put a roof over my head. The Porsche? Not so much.
I believe the Porsche is a better daily driver but, so what? Its not affordable, to me.
And if money is no object, I'm taking the 458 Italia and jumping right over the Porsche.
There's always something a little nice, a lot more expensive. Acknowledging it is OK.
Most hand-made cars are hand-made because for the production volume and prices they have, an assembly line wouldn't necessarily make sense. Also because for the price they charge, "hand made" just sounds better to most of the target audience, even though there is very little tangible benefit. It's like "corinthian leather". In fact when it comes to robustness, most of those hand-built cars are total POSes relative to machine-built assembly line cars. How many modern Fords, Lexuses, Hyundais, or Corvettes do you hear about spontaneously combusting around town? How about Ferraris or Lambos? And which of them has more cars on the road?
Plus things like QC are still mostly done by humans, in any case. Whether it's a Porsche, a Corvette, or a Kia.
I won't deny that the Porsche is nicer to sit in (although I haven't yet sat in a C7). But I don't think it's remotely 120% nicer... Or more if you deduct points for having inferior performance, which you have to for a high performance sports car, regardless of how many owners will track their cars.
Last edited by RocketGuy3; 09-09-2013 at 11:46 AM.
09-09-2013, 11:56 AM
#40
I don't know why "hand made" is an advantage. In today's day and age, a machine that is designed to do the same thing a human can do will do a better job than any human 99% of the time.
Most hand-made cars are hand-made because for the production volume and prices they have, an assembly line wouldn't necessarily make sense. Also because for the price they charge, "hand made" just sounds better to most of the target audience, even though there is very little tangible benefit. It's like "corinthian leather". In fact when it comes to robustness, most of those hand-built cars are total POSes relative to machine-built assembly line cars. How many modern Fords, Lexuses, Hyundais, or Corvettes do you hear about spontaneously combusting around town? How about Ferraris or Lambos? And which of them has more cars on the road?
Plus things like QC are still mostly done by humans, in any case. Whether it's a Porsche, a Corvette, or a Kia.
I won't deny that the Porsche is nicer to sit in (although I haven't yet sat in a C7). But I don't think it's remotely 120% nicer... Or more if you deduct points for having inferior performance, which you have to for a high performance sports car, regardless of how many owners will track their cars.
Most hand-made cars are hand-made because for the production volume and prices they have, an assembly line wouldn't necessarily make sense. Also because for the price they charge, "hand made" just sounds better to most of the target audience, even though there is very little tangible benefit. It's like "corinthian leather". In fact when it comes to robustness, most of those hand-built cars are total POSes relative to machine-built assembly line cars. How many modern Fords, Lexuses, Hyundais, or Corvettes do you hear about spontaneously combusting around town? How about Ferraris or Lambos? And which of them has more cars on the road?
Plus things like QC are still mostly done by humans, in any case. Whether it's a Porsche, a Corvette, or a Kia.
I won't deny that the Porsche is nicer to sit in (although I haven't yet sat in a C7). But I don't think it's remotely 120% nicer... Or more if you deduct points for having inferior performance, which you have to for a high performance sports car, regardless of how many owners will track their cars.
That isn't making excuses for the 911 winning the comparison. It is simply suggesting that any review and any discussion has an element of bias. I don't think the reviewer could have picked the Corvette based on what I see as his preference for Porsche unless the C7 simply decimated the 911... and we know that isn't going to happen given the ability of the 911S.
For me, I believe the 911S is an amazing car. Other reviews have commented about the feel and performance of the C7 being as good or better. If the 911S was better suited for or "spoke" to this reviewer better than the C7, that just says how great that car is. It is also pretty clear the C7 is the better performance car taking the subjective aside for a minute. I would also wager that other comparisons will favour the C7 in even the subjective ways.
If the C7 is an effective overall tie with the 911S over a series of comparisons, that is a HUGE win IMO for GM because the two cars fully loaded are not even in the same price hemisphere. My suspicion is that the C7 will win more comparisons than it loses but let's wait and see