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Old 10-03-2013, 07:29 AM   #1
SWO99
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Default OT: Viper Cuts Production - Impact on ZO7 or ZR!?

Interesting:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11310026...-to-slow-sales

Not to start an anti-Viper argument and how they got here - but what sort of impact will this have on the C7, and more importantly how will GM management see the market for the highest HiPo C7s?

If Viper sales are this soft, and the C7 is doing well enough (I don't believe all the GM hype) I'd have to think that a GM course of action would be to minimize the investment - especially delay - HiPo C7s?

Thoughts?
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:41 AM   #2
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Here is how I see it.
Corvette has a much stronger following than Viper so it is less likely to have sales problems early in a generation run. Also, the Z06 or whatever HiPo model is already DEEP DEEP into its development, so it only makes sense to go ahead and put it out there and let sales do what they do so GM can at least start recovering development costs. I can't see any good coming from delaying the release.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:00 AM   #3
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This is a clear message to all the track guys who think the Corvette should just be this rough, stripped-down, fire-breather. They just don't sell. A very small percentage of performance car drivers want to spend that kind of money on a car they can't easily live with on a daily and/or long trip basis.

Oh yeah...it's long past time to fire Ralphy! He lost a lot of support in the Viper world by losing to the 'old' ZR1 and then whined like a baby about it. He further compounded it by bringing a completely different car 3 months later with no ZR1 (to which the Viper lost by 2 seconds) to 'test' it against.

Three cheers to Team Corvette for clearly stealing market share and promising even better with the C7 and the hi-po versions to come.

Actually, I hope they don't fire Ralphy...all the better for the Corvette!
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:02 AM   #4
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The problem is that the Viper came out with some very expensive options to try to make the car more of a Lambo/Ferrari competitor. The dealers fell for it and ordered a lot of $135K plus cars for stock. It's hard for me to believe they thought that plan was going to work when they have had to shut down entire model years because they couldn't sell at $100K. Thats what happens when you get cocky with a car that says Chevy or Dodge on it (and yes, I know its an "SRT" now).
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:04 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschindler View Post
The problem is that the Viper came out with some very expensive options to try to make the car more of a Lambo/Ferrari competitor. The dealers fell for it and ordered a lot of $135K plus cars for stock. It's hard for me to believe they thought that plan was going to work when they have had to shut down entire model years because they couldn't sell at $100K. Thats what happens when you get cocky with a car that says Chevy or Dodge on it (and yes, I know its an "SRT" now).
You mean Fiat.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:08 AM   #6
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Gee, I wonder if the $110000 sticker price coupled with the dodge dart interior could have anything to do with its lackluster sales?

More than likely the HiPo Stingray will match or exceed the raw numbers the Viper lays down, handle a lot better and come to market for less $$$.

I don't see this having any effect. It's two different buyers.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:20 AM   #7
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The other problem is STR burned loyal Viper owners that put deposits on cars long before production started by allocating cars to dealers versus filling committed orders.

I was seriously considering buying one until I read that on the Viper forum.

Then it got beat by the ZR-1, then the quality issues surfaced, and of course there is the price...

Interestingly, they bash Corvettes for being 'a dime a dozen', which I find arrogant & childish.

I guess now Vipers will be even more 'exclusive'.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:21 AM   #8
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Some people out there in the world just don't get it! The Viper began its life in 1992, the Corvette in 1953, the Viper has sold 20 something thousand total, the Corvette has done that in any one given year dozens of times. The Viper was always a more expensive (until the ZR1 which in case if you haven't looked the sales suck on from day one) exclusive car for the guy who wanted to challenge his own abilities.

Bottom line is that most people don't recognize an American sports car to be worth over 100k yet they'll spend that times 2-3-4 on something European that can't hold a candle to the Viper or ZR1.

For those who don't know the Viper, NSX and yes the Miata revitalized the sports car market in the early 90's, if those cars did not get introduced who knows how the segment would have flourished.

If GM comes out with a 100k plus performer it too will not sell manyu units, i.e. the ZR1 and even the less expensive ZO6. The novelty is over, those high end buyers only want Euro sports cars sadly.

Anyone who is happy to see the Viper go away is not a real car guy, just a blow hard with an axe to grind!
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:24 AM   #9
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MJW, a Dodge Dart interior? I guess you haven't sat in an SRT, the interior destroys what is in a C7.

And give it a rest with the ZR1 beating a mule guys, a five year built proven and perfected product with SC's and CCB's lost to a freshly built TA...PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:25 AM   #10
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I do think there is a lesson there for the hi-po Corvette. Make it civilized like you did the ZR1 but make just one car with maybe two engine options and maybe an AWD option. In the end, the Z07 was basically a ZR1 with a different engine anyway.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:27 AM   #11
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The problem with Viper is the new model has been rejected by those who in the past have been loyal Viper owners.

Getting beat by the outgoing ZR1 in a magazine face off was a marketing disaster even though it was a pre-production example that got shown the way home by a ten year old design corvette

The fact that a nationally recognized driver said the car scared him, and the magazine writers said the seats made their back hurt had a major effect on those most likely to purchase the viper...... the same persons who will purchase the next hi performance model of the corvette.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:30 AM   #12
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As Gilles noted, "We really have to focus on putting butts in seats. A lot of people are unnecessarily intimidated by the car."

Yes, because the Viper will kill you and eat you if you touch the gas pedal ever so slightly.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:32 AM   #13
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I thought that Viper was selling great?

I know at least a few Viper guys from my years of owning one. Not many of them are impressed with the Gen V.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 View Post
MJW, a Dodge Dart interior? I guess you haven't sat in an SRT, the interior destroys what is in a C7.

And give it a rest with the ZR1 beating a mule guys, a five year built proven and perfected product with SC's and CCB's lost to a freshly built TA...PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tough nuggies buddy. Deal. It didn't lose to it because it never competed with it on the same day. It lost by 2 seconds on the same day with the same driver. The second run was a chicken's bad form and you just can't admit it.

It does have the same interior as the Dart. Same enough!
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurshot View Post
The problem with Viper is the new model has been rejected by those who in the past have been loyal Viper owners.

Getting beat by the outgoing ZR1 in a magazine face off was a marketing disaster even though it was a pre-production example that got shown the way home by a ten year old design corvette

The fact that a nationally recognized driver said the car scared him, and the magazine writers said the seats made their back hurt had a major effect on those most likely to purchase the viper...... the same persons who will purchase the next hi performance model of the corvette.
All true!
S.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:39 AM   #16
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Hey sureshot, go to 2:45 of the video and listen to Probst! Hmmm, first year ZR1 with the kinks not worked out, tail happy, no confidence etc.



And the Dart interior too looks better than the C7. Material wise sit in an SRT, it blows away the fake materials in the C7 and that is a true statement.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:41 AM   #17
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Didn’t they have a similar issue with numerous unsold Fiat 500s?
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 View Post
Hey sureshot, go to 2:45 of the video and listen to Probst! Hmmm, first year ZR1 with the kinks not worked out, tail happy, no confidence etc.


ZR1 Laps Laguna Seca! - 2009 Best Driver's Car Competition - YouTube

And the Dart interior too looks better than the C7. Material wise sit in an SRT, it blows away the fake materials in the C7 and that is a true statement.
In 2010 the ZR1 came with computer assisted torque management that Viper has had three years to at least equal

LOL, maybe SRT should have approached GM with an offer to purchase their old system now that Corvette has moved forward into an even better version
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dan 427 View Post
Some people out there in the world just don't get it! The Viper began its life in 1992, the Corvette in 1953, the Viper has sold 20 something thousand total, the Corvette has done that in any one given year dozens of times. The Viper was always a more expensive (until the ZR1 which in case if you haven't looked the sales suck on from day one) exclusive car for the guy who wanted to challenge his own abilities.

Bottom line is that most people don't recognize an American sports car to be worth over 100k yet they'll spend that times 2-3-4 on something European that can't hold a candle to the Viper or ZR1.

For those who don't know the Viper, NSX and yes the Miata revitalized the sports car market in the early 90's, if those cars did not get introduced who knows how the segment would have flourished.

If GM comes out with a 100k plus performer it too will not sell manyu units, i.e. the ZR1 and even the less expensive ZO6. The novelty is over, those high end buyers only want Euro sports cars sadly.

Anyone who is happy to see the Viper go away is not a real car guy, just a blow hard with an axe to grind!


Well said Dan..I for one am sad to hear this happening to the Viper and have loved them from day one as a matter of fact I'm looking at my fav Viper of all time a gen IV with less than 1000 miles on it and if the #'s are right I'll have it..I really don't understand the hate for other sports cars than what one owns.. IMO it's childish to think that way.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:58 AM   #20
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What year Keith? From 2008-2010 from what I remember they are the same car, 600 ponies in either the vert or the coupe. If it's an ACR you are looking at they made some changes in 2010, mostly aero stuff though.

I'd be curious to here what you're after, good luck and don't listen to the rumors of a Vipers driveability, you just thave to respect them and you'll be rewarded 10 fold.
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