An honest inquiry
10-11-2013, 09:58 AM
#42
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Let's talk about GM here and the issue at hand, not other manufacturers. I think it is fair to say that a lot of people on here will be influenced by what we read from guys who already have the car. I have said from day one that I would heavily consider a hi-po if it's right for me, but if the platform and quality of the entry level model is sub par it doesn't bode well for the mindset of the future potential buyer!
EDIT: I had suggested from the start that this is not a slight against the C7, it is about the QC and seemingly exorbitant amount of early on problems, most of which are quasi embarrassing for the maker! And I ask kindly, if you have nothing of substance to add to this thread please move on and post elsewhere.
EDIT: I had suggested from the start that this is not a slight against the C7, it is about the QC and seemingly exorbitant amount of early on problems, most of which are quasi embarrassing for the maker! And I ask kindly, if you have nothing of substance to add to this thread please move on and post elsewhere.
Last edited by Big Dan 427; 10-11-2013 at 10:01 AM.
10-11-2013, 10:00 AM
#44
Le Mans Master
Perhaps, but the poster specifically said he wanted something "more stable and reliable". That ain't a Porsche. Personally, I'd rather have a missing door sill then a complete engine failure.
And for the RMS problem, why is it fair to give Porsche a pass because it was a "design issue" and not a manufacturing issue. I call BS. Its all one company, they charge outrageous prices for their products and present themselves as a premier engineering organization and status symbol.
And for the RMS problem, why is it fair to give Porsche a pass because it was a "design issue" and not a manufacturing issue. I call BS. Its all one company, they charge outrageous prices for their products and present themselves as a premier engineering organization and status symbol.
10-11-2013, 10:02 AM
#45
Scraping the splitter.
10-11-2013, 10:04 AM
#46
Team Owner
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
it is possible that "they were rushing to meet the third quarter delivery" promised. just as it is noted and posted that there were/are problems with things left off, forgotten, not filled, etc. this is not good, esp. for the individual owner, or owners. still, I do believe it is part of the "teething problems" of bringing a new generation out.
would the problems have been less if they'd waited to/for six more months? probably. but there would still be problems of omission, commission and original design and intent.
I think the most telling point to me is not those who say they will keep the car and enjoy it and get it fixed--altho I have a great deal of respect for that attitude. the most interesting posts to me are those who say, "I'm done." and their reasons and logic.
THAT is what Chev, GM Corvette and Bowling Green should be looking at, and learning from. we can all laff about this model or that brand, and say it's crap also and I would never buy one, etc., but at the end of the day there is something to be learned from those who walk away. I say, if you don't learn from it, you're looking at extinction. Don't just dismiss it as some crazy person who will never be won back because others are looking, listening and thinking. And what they MAY be thinking is, I'll stick with MY car, but I can't in good conscience recommend it to my daughter, or son, or neighbor. That's the beginning of a demise. jmo.
And I do believe Dan has brought up a thoughtful, interesting topic.
would the problems have been less if they'd waited to/for six more months? probably. but there would still be problems of omission, commission and original design and intent.
I think the most telling point to me is not those who say they will keep the car and enjoy it and get it fixed--altho I have a great deal of respect for that attitude. the most interesting posts to me are those who say, "I'm done." and their reasons and logic.
THAT is what Chev, GM Corvette and Bowling Green should be looking at, and learning from. we can all laff about this model or that brand, and say it's crap also and I would never buy one, etc., but at the end of the day there is something to be learned from those who walk away. I say, if you don't learn from it, you're looking at extinction. Don't just dismiss it as some crazy person who will never be won back because others are looking, listening and thinking. And what they MAY be thinking is, I'll stick with MY car, but I can't in good conscience recommend it to my daughter, or son, or neighbor. That's the beginning of a demise. jmo.
And I do believe Dan has brought up a thoughtful, interesting topic.
10-11-2013, 10:04 AM
#47
Scraping the splitter.
If you want to talk about how horrible QC is at Bowling Green and how big of a failure GM's efforts to release a quality C7 are, come on down! If you want to present facts and point out how overblown the few issues we've seen thus far have been, please go post elsewhere.
S.
10-11-2013, 10:07 AM
#50
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I think it's fair to keep in mind, we are not talking about a cookie cutter 20-30k car here, we are talking about the iconic American sports car! All GM preached was the new plant, the new paint process, the new car itself. And you know what, they should be proud as a company of all those factors, now IMO it's time to back it up.
To me all the statistics go out the window in this case, I almost wonder how much pride is being taken to let cars go with missing parts, paint peeling etc. Again that is what this thread is about, hopefully we can stay on topic.
To me all the statistics go out the window in this case, I almost wonder how much pride is being taken to let cars go with missing parts, paint peeling etc. Again that is what this thread is about, hopefully we can stay on topic.
10-11-2013, 10:13 AM
#52
Intermediate
So you don't think the problems posted on the forum can be extrapolated? If someone joins the forum to state a problem, thats one thing. But if the folks who are having problems have been on the forum anyway and are now reporting problems, then you can look at that as random sampling. Take the number of complaints to the number of forum members who have taken delivery of C7s and suddenly the percent of problems doesn't look so good.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its an epidemic. But like I said in my earlier post, many of the problems - in fact virtually all of them are assembly or programming types of issues, not failures of components. That tells me that they were rushing them to meet the third quarter promise.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its an epidemic. But like I said in my earlier post, many of the problems - in fact virtually all of them are assembly or programming types of issues, not failures of components. That tells me that they were rushing them to meet the third quarter promise.
People are complaining for things such as: my interior dash is not completely aligned (off by 1 mm), my HUD is not completely parallel with the ground (newsflash, it will not be due to the curvature of the windshield; it will appear crooked depending on how you are seated), my car has orange peel (my 2005 BMW E46 M3 also had orange peel), and I could go on for several minutes.
People who do not have the car are making excuses for not getting them or for not having it right now. The OP fools into thinking that it is a honest inquiry. However, the summary of his entry reads like this: "I am jealous that I do not have a Stingray right now and I do not want to tell the real reason why I do not have it. Therefore, since there are a couple of people complaining (car hypocondriacs), I will take that as a perfect excuse and have my reputation as being the top dog in the forum restored."
In my opinion, it would be easier to just say, I have an almos brand new Corvette and even when I am dying to buy a new Stingray, it does not make sense for me right now to spend more money on a new car, even though the Stingray is lightyears away from the C6.
This type of thread make people stay away from forums. It is filled with negativity and secretly wishing bad things to others. Be a happy person and wish others the best; karma is out there, don't you forget....
10-11-2013, 10:15 AM
#53
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 2011
Location: New Rochelle N.Y. 2013 Grand Sport
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I really don't care what other manufactures figures are the fact of the matter is we are talking about corvettes and if one in every five coming off the line has issues in the launch year I will wait till 2015 to consider one. I am a gambling man but those odds are definitely not in my favor.
10-11-2013, 10:19 AM
#54
Le Mans Master
I think it's fair to keep in mind, we are not talking about a cookie cutter 20-30k car here, we are talking about the iconic American sports car! All GM preached was the new plant, the new paint process, the new car itself. And you know what, they should be proud as a company of all those factors, now IMO it's time to back it up.
To me all the statistics go out the window in this case, I almost wonder how much pride is being taken to let cars go with missing parts, paint peeling etc. Again that is what this thread is about, hopefully we can stay on topic.
To me all the statistics go out the window in this case, I almost wonder how much pride is being taken to let cars go with missing parts, paint peeling etc. Again that is what this thread is about, hopefully we can stay on topic.
However this thread derailed long ago. To those that have perfect cars you are very lucky. To those that have issues don't post here.
10-11-2013, 10:22 AM
#55
Intermediate
I really don't care what other manufactures figures are the fact of the matter is we are talking about corvettes and if one in every five coming off the line has issues in the launch year I will wait till 2015 to consider one. I am a gambling man but those odds are definitely not in my favor.
10-11-2013, 10:22 AM
#56
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2004
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St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
Let's talk about GM here and the issue at hand, not other manufacturers. I think it is fair to say that a lot of people on here will be influenced by what we read from guys who already have the car. I have said from day one that I would heavily consider a hi-po if it's right for me, but if the platform and quality of the entry level model is sub par it doesn't bode well for the mindset of the future potential buyer!
EDIT: I had suggested from the start that this is not a slight against the C7, it is about the QC and seemingly exorbitant amount of early on problems, most of which are quasi embarrassing for the maker! And I ask kindly, if you have nothing of substance to add to this thread please move on and post elsewhere.
EDIT: I had suggested from the start that this is not a slight against the C7, it is about the QC and seemingly exorbitant amount of early on problems, most of which are quasi embarrassing for the maker! And I ask kindly, if you have nothing of substance to add to this thread please move on and post elsewhere.
it is possible that "they were rushing to meet the third quarter delivery" promised. just as it is noted and posted that there were/are problems with things left off, forgotten, not filled, etc. this is not good, esp. for the individual owner, or owners. still, I do believe it is part of the "teething problems" of bringing a new generation out.
would the problems have been less if they'd waited to/for six more months? probably. but there would still be problems of omission, commission and original design and intent.
I think the most telling point to me is not those who say they will keep the car and enjoy it and get it fixed--altho I have a great deal of respect for that attitude. the most interesting posts to me are those who say, "I'm done." and their reasons and logic.
THAT is what Chev, GM Corvette and Bowling Green should be looking at, and learning from. we can all laff about this model or that brand, and say it's crap also and I would never buy one, etc., but at the end of the day there is something to be learned from those who walk away. I say, if you don't learn from it, you're looking at extinction. Don't just dismiss it as some crazy person who will never be won back because others are looking, listening and thinking. And what they MAY be thinking is, I'll stick with MY car, but I can't in good conscience recommend it to my daughter, or son, or neighbor. That's the beginning of a demise. jmo.
And I do believe Dan has brought up a thoughtful, interesting topic.
would the problems have been less if they'd waited to/for six more months? probably. but there would still be problems of omission, commission and original design and intent.
I think the most telling point to me is not those who say they will keep the car and enjoy it and get it fixed--altho I have a great deal of respect for that attitude. the most interesting posts to me are those who say, "I'm done." and their reasons and logic.
THAT is what Chev, GM Corvette and Bowling Green should be looking at, and learning from. we can all laff about this model or that brand, and say it's crap also and I would never buy one, etc., but at the end of the day there is something to be learned from those who walk away. I say, if you don't learn from it, you're looking at extinction. Don't just dismiss it as some crazy person who will never be won back because others are looking, listening and thinking. And what they MAY be thinking is, I'll stick with MY car, but I can't in good conscience recommend it to my daughter, or son, or neighbor. That's the beginning of a demise. jmo.
And I do believe Dan has brought up a thoughtful, interesting topic.
I think it's fair to keep in mind, we are not talking about a cookie cutter 20-30k car here, we are talking about the iconic American sports car! All GM preached was the new plant, the new paint process, the new car itself. And you know what, they should be proud as a company of all those factors, now IMO it's time to back it up.
To me all the statistics go out the window in this case, I almost wonder how much pride is being taken to let cars go with missing parts, paint peeling etc. Again that is what this thread is about, hopefully we can stay on topic.
To me all the statistics go out the window in this case, I almost wonder how much pride is being taken to let cars go with missing parts, paint peeling etc. Again that is what this thread is about, hopefully we can stay on topic.
I really don't care what other manufactures figures are the fact of the matter is we are talking about corvettes and if one in every five coming off the line has issues in the launch year I will wait till 2015 to consider one. I am a gambling man but those odds are definitely not in my favor.
10-11-2013, 10:23 AM
#57
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I also will refute your statement, the Stingray even with it's modern electronics is not light years away from a 427. As a matter of fact in my eyes the 427 and other C6 variations are every bit worthy foes. But as stated this isn't about that, it's about the unfortunate petty and major problems the new car is coming with.
Hopefully this thread will stay civil, if it had no meaning it wouldn't have so many interested parties.
10-11-2013, 10:25 AM
#58
Scraping the splitter.
S.
10-11-2013, 10:26 AM
#59
Melting Slicks
Usually the further we get into the series run the better quality you can expect. The line employees are hard working folks for the most part, but they are unskilled labor and usually require a fair amount of repetitions and training time to cut down on errors. It does sound like they have a QA/Mgt problem though. Missing parts is something that just should not happen at any time.
Just one of the reasons it's usually best to wait and buy the next year or later model. Errors will always happen, but they usually get fewer over time.
Just one of the reasons it's usually best to wait and buy the next year or later model. Errors will always happen, but they usually get fewer over time.
10-11-2013, 10:27 AM
#60
Instructor
In average, a customer with a bad experience will likely tell more than 150 people (the number is larger actually, but dont wanna sound unrealistic either). A customer with a positive experience will only tell 10 or 15. Those are the statistics of previous studies. That being said, the 30 people complaining in the forum are not a good indicator of the quality of the car; extrapolating from those results would be absolutely ridiculous.
People are complaining for things such as: my interior dash is not completely aligned (off by 1 mm), my HUD is not completely parallel with the ground (newsflash, it will not be due to the curvature of the windshield; it will appear crooked depending on how you are seated), my car has orange peel (my 2005 BMW E46 M3 also had orange peel), and I could go on for several minutes.
People who do not have the car are making excuses for not getting them or for not having it right now. The OP fools into thinking that it is a honest inquiry. However, the summary of his entry reads like this: "I am jealous that I do not have a Stingray right now and I do not want to tell the real reason why I do not have it. Therefore, since there are a couple of people complaining (car hypocondriacs), I will take that as a perfect excuse and have my reputation as being the top dog in the forum restored."
In my opinion, it would be easier to just say, I have an almos brand new Corvette and even when I am dying to buy a new Stingray, it does not make sense for me right now to spend more money on a new car, even though the Stingray is lightyears away from the C6.
This type of thread make people stay away from forums. It is filled with negativity and secretly wishing bad things to others. Be a happy person and wish others the best; karma is out there, don't you forget....
People are complaining for things such as: my interior dash is not completely aligned (off by 1 mm), my HUD is not completely parallel with the ground (newsflash, it will not be due to the curvature of the windshield; it will appear crooked depending on how you are seated), my car has orange peel (my 2005 BMW E46 M3 also had orange peel), and I could go on for several minutes.
People who do not have the car are making excuses for not getting them or for not having it right now. The OP fools into thinking that it is a honest inquiry. However, the summary of his entry reads like this: "I am jealous that I do not have a Stingray right now and I do not want to tell the real reason why I do not have it. Therefore, since there are a couple of people complaining (car hypocondriacs), I will take that as a perfect excuse and have my reputation as being the top dog in the forum restored."
In my opinion, it would be easier to just say, I have an almos brand new Corvette and even when I am dying to buy a new Stingray, it does not make sense for me right now to spend more money on a new car, even though the Stingray is lightyears away from the C6.
This type of thread make people stay away from forums. It is filled with negativity and secretly wishing bad things to others. Be a happy person and wish others the best; karma is out there, don't you forget....