Pfadt C7 Headers really SUCK
10-29-2013, 08:02 AM
#1
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St. Jude Donor '13
Pfadt C7 Headers really SUCK
46 RWHP
with tune
with tune
Let me try to explain it this way traditional headers (4 into 1 with or without merge spikes or power spike) have one purpose and that is to get exhaust out of the engine. Our competitors headers do just that. But what separates us from them, is our headers don’t just let the exhaust fumes flow out at a leisurely pace, our headers forcefully suck the exhaust out like a demonic vacuum. This speeds up the combustion process allowing you to draw more air and fuel into the engine while sucking that exhaust out faster, resulting in more horsepower as well as keeping a consistent “Dip-Free” torque curve. Pair this technology with the highest precision welds, aircraft-grade stainless steel and Made in USA pride, and you have the finest Corvette headers on the market. Pfadt Tri-Y headers have been meticulously designed by our engineers to give you the most consistent “Dip-Free” tire shredding power.
It took 292 Engine Dyno tests to get Pfadt Tri-Y headers absolutely perfect, and that is why people choose ours over traditional 4-1 headers made by the competition—because Pfadt Tri-Y headers are the quickest, most efficient, most balanced headers on the market, with a consistent power curve across your RPM range.
Think of Pfadt Tri-Y headers as multiple HOV lanes in rush hour traffic. Think of traditional 4-1 headers as four fast lanes of traffic merging into a one-lane tunnel. Now which one gets you home faster? Since we don’t have the wave crashing of 4-1 headers, you won’t see any dips on your torque curve, which means you have full power at your foot when you need it most.
And that’s why you need Pfadt Tri-Y headers for your C5/C6/C7 Corvette. Because, with Pfadt Tri-Y headers, you have the most horsepower at your disposal at all times.
It took 292 Engine Dyno tests to get Pfadt Tri-Y headers absolutely perfect, and that is why people choose ours over traditional 4-1 headers made by the competition—because Pfadt Tri-Y headers are the quickest, most efficient, most balanced headers on the market, with a consistent power curve across your RPM range.
Think of Pfadt Tri-Y headers as multiple HOV lanes in rush hour traffic. Think of traditional 4-1 headers as four fast lanes of traffic merging into a one-lane tunnel. Now which one gets you home faster? Since we don’t have the wave crashing of 4-1 headers, you won’t see any dips on your torque curve, which means you have full power at your foot when you need it most.
And that’s why you need Pfadt Tri-Y headers for your C5/C6/C7 Corvette. Because, with Pfadt Tri-Y headers, you have the most horsepower at your disposal at all times.
Pfadt Tri-Y VS. 4-1
What’s the difference between Pfadt Tri-Y headers and the traditional 4-1 headers made by the competition? Let’s put it into layman’s terms. A traditional header is essentially a giant barn door for each cylinder. The cylinder fires and belches out exhaust through the largest possible hole. This is the extent of 4-1 header technology and, with this technology, your only option to increase exhaust flow is to buy a larger diameter header to get that exhaust gas out. Going larger diameter tubes raises the torque curve higher up into the RPM range
Now a Pfadt Tri-Y header is also a giant barn door, except our headers act as if you have a 747 Jumbo Jet firing up its engine on the other side of your barn door, essentially sucking out all that exhaust gas for you as well as a few bales of hay and the farmer’s daughter. Our Tri-Y headers speed up the exhaust flow out of the engine allowing you to bring more air in, therefore creating massive horsepower gains.
What’s the difference between Pfadt Tri-Y headers and the traditional 4-1 headers made by the competition? Let’s put it into layman’s terms. A traditional header is essentially a giant barn door for each cylinder. The cylinder fires and belches out exhaust through the largest possible hole. This is the extent of 4-1 header technology and, with this technology, your only option to increase exhaust flow is to buy a larger diameter header to get that exhaust gas out. Going larger diameter tubes raises the torque curve higher up into the RPM range
Now a Pfadt Tri-Y header is also a giant barn door, except our headers act as if you have a 747 Jumbo Jet firing up its engine on the other side of your barn door, essentially sucking out all that exhaust gas for you as well as a few bales of hay and the farmer’s daughter. Our Tri-Y headers speed up the exhaust flow out of the engine allowing you to bring more air in, therefore creating massive horsepower gains.
How Do Pfadt Tri-Y Headers Work?
There are a lot of engineering explanations and math and other calculations that go into our headers, but let’s keep it simple and focus on the concept of scavenging. Pfadt Tri-Y headers are set up to overlap pairs of cylinders, merging 4 pairs of cylinders BEFORE they meet up together in the crossover pipe. Cylinder A releases a high-pressure exhaust pulse which causes increased low-pressure in cylinder B's exhaust primary, whisking away the exhaust remnants in that pipe. This is scavenging. By coordinating these pulses and inducing scavenging, one cylinder actually helps suck the spent exhaust fumes away from its partner cylinder. Then the cylinders switch roles, and then they switch again and again with every spark, to produce an extraordinary acceleration of the exhaust evacuation.
There are a lot of engineering explanations and math and other calculations that go into our headers, but let’s keep it simple and focus on the concept of scavenging. Pfadt Tri-Y headers are set up to overlap pairs of cylinders, merging 4 pairs of cylinders BEFORE they meet up together in the crossover pipe. Cylinder A releases a high-pressure exhaust pulse which causes increased low-pressure in cylinder B's exhaust primary, whisking away the exhaust remnants in that pipe. This is scavenging. By coordinating these pulses and inducing scavenging, one cylinder actually helps suck the spent exhaust fumes away from its partner cylinder. Then the cylinders switch roles, and then they switch again and again with every spark, to produce an extraordinary acceleration of the exhaust evacuation.
What about Wave Crashing?
Our Pfadt Tri-Y headers also eliminate wave crashes that are problematic in traditional 4-1 headers. When you have 4 outlets feeding into one pipe you are sure to get a crash - there’s just not enough room to expel the exhaust waves when the exhaust gasses merge. They only have two ways to go - away from the engine or back towards it, and the exhaust that goes back towards the engine is now disrupting the next fire, and the next fire, and so on and so forth. You can see these wave crashes, or dips, on many Dyno charts – there just isn’t a consistent vertical curve. Pfadt Tri-Y headers provide “Dip-Free” power. Since we have eliminated Wave Crashing you have a consistent, dip-free, torque curve at your disposal at every RPM.
Our Pfadt Tri-Y headers also eliminate wave crashes that are problematic in traditional 4-1 headers. When you have 4 outlets feeding into one pipe you are sure to get a crash - there’s just not enough room to expel the exhaust waves when the exhaust gasses merge. They only have two ways to go - away from the engine or back towards it, and the exhaust that goes back towards the engine is now disrupting the next fire, and the next fire, and so on and so forth. You can see these wave crashes, or dips, on many Dyno charts – there just isn’t a consistent vertical curve. Pfadt Tri-Y headers provide “Dip-Free” power. Since we have eliminated Wave Crashing you have a consistent, dip-free, torque curve at your disposal at every RPM.
Why Are They Called Tri-Y?
The reason they are called Tri-Y is because we take two cylinders and pair them into a Y formation (1st Y) and we do the same with the second pair of cylinders (2nd Y). Then we take those two pairs and pair them into a final Y and the final Y actually does the same thing the first two Y’s do, it sucks the paired exhausts on through your exhaust system.
The reason they are called Tri-Y is because we take two cylinders and pair them into a Y formation (1st Y) and we do the same with the second pair of cylinders (2nd Y). Then we take those two pairs and pair them into a final Y and the final Y actually does the same thing the first two Y’s do, it sucks the paired exhausts on through your exhaust system.
Pfadt Tri-Y Specifications
- TRI-Y Design, 4-2-1 tube merging
- Makes much more torque under the curve, while still increasing top end HP
- 1.875/2.125" tube diameter
- CNC flanges with OEM locating features
- Fully hand-TIG welded on-site
- T-304 16 Gauge Stainless Steel
- Fully Brushed Stainless Steel Finish
- V-Band Clamp connections
- Equal length long tubes
- 1-piece X-Pipe available with and without Catalytic Converters
- Full 3" collector and X-pipe
- Comes with bullet-nosed flange bolts for installation
- O2 Sensor extenders below
- Cometic Multi-Layer Steel gasket upgrades below
- Exhaust system with Cats is 24lbs lighter than factory
- Exhaust system without Cats is 27lbs lighter than factory.
- Made in USA
$1999.00
INSTALLED
PM CALL
FOR DELIVERED PRICE
PM CALL
FOR DELIVERED PRICE
10-29-2013, 10:07 AM
#3
Drifting
Very interesting read and sales pitch. It certainly got my attention. I'd love to see a dyno graph comparing your headers with traditional headers from a competitor like ARH or Kooks.
10-29-2013, 11:05 AM
#4
I understand the concept, but they can't actually create a vacuum stronger than the pressure being forced out of the cylinders. That's just physics.
The dyno numbers don't lie and these headers are an excellent product but they don't actually suck exhaust out of the cylinder, that would be impossible without some sort of a vacuum mechanism.
They are tubes with no other mechanism attached, so how can they actually create a vacuum strong enough to actually suck the exhaust out at a greater rate than the pressure being expelled from the combustion chamber?
The fact that they allow the pressure to escape in much greater efficiency is a no-brainer. I think anyone who understands the basic concept of a well designed exhaust manifold gets that.
Again, I'm not knocking the effectiveness and quality of your products, because I know they are very good for the type that they are. I'd just like to see a bit more scientific explanation of how they are literally sucking exhaust out as opposed to letting the exhaust "escape" much more efficiently.
The dyno numbers don't lie and these headers are an excellent product but they don't actually suck exhaust out of the cylinder, that would be impossible without some sort of a vacuum mechanism.
They are tubes with no other mechanism attached, so how can they actually create a vacuum strong enough to actually suck the exhaust out at a greater rate than the pressure being expelled from the combustion chamber?
The fact that they allow the pressure to escape in much greater efficiency is a no-brainer. I think anyone who understands the basic concept of a well designed exhaust manifold gets that.
Again, I'm not knocking the effectiveness and quality of your products, because I know they are very good for the type that they are. I'd just like to see a bit more scientific explanation of how they are literally sucking exhaust out as opposed to letting the exhaust "escape" much more efficiently.
Last edited by C7pimp; 10-29-2013 at 11:51 AM.
10-29-2013, 01:23 PM
#5
I understand the concept, but they can't actually create a vacuum stronger than the pressure being forced out of the cylinders. That's just physics.
The dyno numbers don't lie and these headers are an excellent product but they don't actually suck exhaust out of the cylinder, that would be impossible without some sort of a vacuum mechanism.
They are tubes with no other mechanism attached, so how can they actually create a vacuum strong enough to actually suck the exhaust out at a greater rate than the pressure being expelled from the combustion chamber?
The fact that they allow the pressure to escape in much greater efficiency is a no-brainer. I think anyone who understands the basic concept of a well designed exhaust manifold gets that.
Again, I'm not knocking the effectiveness and quality of your products, because I know they are very good for the type that they are. I'd just like to see a bit more scientific explanation of how they are literally sucking exhaust out as opposed to letting the exhaust "escape" much more efficiently.
The dyno numbers don't lie and these headers are an excellent product but they don't actually suck exhaust out of the cylinder, that would be impossible without some sort of a vacuum mechanism.
They are tubes with no other mechanism attached, so how can they actually create a vacuum strong enough to actually suck the exhaust out at a greater rate than the pressure being expelled from the combustion chamber?
The fact that they allow the pressure to escape in much greater efficiency is a no-brainer. I think anyone who understands the basic concept of a well designed exhaust manifold gets that.
Again, I'm not knocking the effectiveness and quality of your products, because I know they are very good for the type that they are. I'd just like to see a bit more scientific explanation of how they are literally sucking exhaust out as opposed to letting the exhaust "escape" much more efficiently.
I too would like to see a PFadt engineer or scavenging expert give a clear explanation of what is happening.
To me it seems the flow of the exhausting cylinder A's gases flowing past cylinder B's primary tube junction is like a venturi effect across an orifice (creating a low pressure and sucking the gases from it).
10-29-2013, 02:10 PM
#6
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I understand the concept, but they can't actually create a vacuum stronger than the pressure being forced out of the cylinders. That's just physics.
The dyno numbers don't lie and these headers are an excellent product but they don't actually suck exhaust out of the cylinder, that would be impossible without some sort of a vacuum mechanism.
They are tubes with no other mechanism attached, so how can they actually create a vacuum strong enough to actually suck the exhaust out at a greater rate than the pressure being expelled from the combustion chamber?
The fact that they allow the pressure to escape in much greater efficiency is a no-brainer. I think anyone who understands the basic concept of a well designed exhaust manifold gets that.
Again, I'm not knocking the effectiveness and quality of your products, because I know they are very good for the type that they are. I'd just like to see a bit more scientific explanation of how they are literally sucking exhaust out as opposed to letting the exhaust "escape" much more efficiently.
The dyno numbers don't lie and these headers are an excellent product but they don't actually suck exhaust out of the cylinder, that would be impossible without some sort of a vacuum mechanism.
They are tubes with no other mechanism attached, so how can they actually create a vacuum strong enough to actually suck the exhaust out at a greater rate than the pressure being expelled from the combustion chamber?
The fact that they allow the pressure to escape in much greater efficiency is a no-brainer. I think anyone who understands the basic concept of a well designed exhaust manifold gets that.
Again, I'm not knocking the effectiveness and quality of your products, because I know they are very good for the type that they are. I'd just like to see a bit more scientific explanation of how they are literally sucking exhaust out as opposed to letting the exhaust "escape" much more efficiently.
It's called exhaust "scavenging", and yes this effect can in fact suck the exhaust from the cylinder.
Your physics is somewhat correct, but you appear to thinking as if there was only one single exhaust pulse exiting the cylinder. This scavenging effect is created by the prior pulse downstream in the header that literally leaves a vacuum behind it that aides in sucking any remaining gases out of the cylinder for the next pulse that the pressure forcing the exhaust out didnt get.
This largely depends on proper sizing of the piping, and any disruptions in the pulse's flow that may be created by bends, turns, merging pipes, etc. Its kind of like, if you break up the pulse either by giving it too much space to dissapate or by turns, bends, or merging pipes, you lose some suction created by the pulse. Scavenging is not only important at the headers, but for the entire flow route of the exhaust, as this effect continues to be beneficial all the way through the pipe.
This is how I have always understood this concept, so correct me if i am mistaken. Headers, can, in fact have a profound impact on the scavenging effect.
Last edited by Br0; 10-29-2013 at 02:18 PM.
10-29-2013, 02:12 PM
#7
Team Owner
Will it void the warranty?
10-29-2013, 02:47 PM
#8
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Remember, airflow is created by a pressure differential. Its simple physics. Positive pressure on one side + vacuum on the other will create much more flow than positive pressure alone. This is where headers make their real power, and this is where a tri-y design makes even more power than standard headers. The tri-y pairs cylinders together (the y-merging) to create vacuum on venting cylinders. Its an brilliant design
10-29-2013, 02:48 PM
#9
Naples FL
Is it's set up using the factory x pipe and cat's!
...Interested in bringing my C7 up next visit to Orlando!
10-29-2013, 03:38 PM
#14
therefore at the point of maximum pressure out of the cylinder, the vacuum may not be that valuable, but in areas where the there isn't high pressure....(maybe at low valve lift and slower engine speeds)...you will see greater benefit.
if the pipes don't the tune will...
Last edited by genv6.2gm; 10-29-2013 at 03:43 PM.
10-29-2013, 03:40 PM
#15
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St. Jude Donor '13
That is the age old question under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which is enforced by the FTC
The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act was enacted by Congress back in 1975 to ensure that consumers are protected from misleading warranties being offered by manufacturers. The act does not require that companies offer warranties, but only regulates how the warranties are disclosed to the public if they are offered.
During the development of Magnuson Moss, Congress was concerned that companies would deceive consumers by telling them they must use a parts offered by the manufacturer in order to maintain their product’s warranty. that the non-OE part caused the failure.A provision was included to the act that prohibited the conditioning of a warranty on the use of any of the manufacturer’s parts or services needed to maintain the product. Under interpretations by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the only way that a warranty could be denied based on the use of a non-original equipment part would be for that non-OE part to have caused the failure. Further, the onus is on the manufacturer of the product to prove that the non-OE part caused the failure.
You can add aftermarket parts now headers increase the flow and scavanging of exhaust gases resulting in increased performance. The same as a cold air intake and high flow air intake systems. In a nut shell it comes down to the what the warranty issue is and the dealer your working with.
The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act was enacted by Congress back in 1975 to ensure that consumers are protected from misleading warranties being offered by manufacturers. The act does not require that companies offer warranties, but only regulates how the warranties are disclosed to the public if they are offered.
During the development of Magnuson Moss, Congress was concerned that companies would deceive consumers by telling them they must use a parts offered by the manufacturer in order to maintain their product’s warranty. that the non-OE part caused the failure.A provision was included to the act that prohibited the conditioning of a warranty on the use of any of the manufacturer’s parts or services needed to maintain the product. Under interpretations by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the only way that a warranty could be denied based on the use of a non-original equipment part would be for that non-OE part to have caused the failure. Further, the onus is on the manufacturer of the product to prove that the non-OE part caused the failure.
You can add aftermarket parts now headers increase the flow and scavanging of exhaust gases resulting in increased performance. The same as a cold air intake and high flow air intake systems. In a nut shell it comes down to the what the warranty issue is and the dealer your working with.
Last edited by Xplosive Performance; 10-29-2013 at 03:43 PM.
10-29-2013, 03:46 PM
#16
can you tell us what kind in changes of mixture in terms of lambda with a stock tune from stock manifold to your header?
(looking to see if it can be run on the stock tune and how much of an impact will they make to stock values)
also what type of variance from cylinder to cylinder in terms of percentage as far as temp and A/F?
BTW looks like a great product for a great price!
(looking to see if it can be run on the stock tune and how much of an impact will they make to stock values)
also what type of variance from cylinder to cylinder in terms of percentage as far as temp and A/F?
BTW looks like a great product for a great price!
Last edited by genv6.2gm; 10-29-2013 at 03:50 PM.
10-29-2013, 03:49 PM
#17
Race Director
Under interpretations by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the only way that a warranty could be denied based on the use of a non-original equipment part would be for that non-OE part to have caused the failure. Further, the onus is on the manufacturer of the product to prove that the non-OE part caused the failure.
The simple solution to all of this is just to save the oem pipes and bolt them back on before it goes in to the dealer for warranty work. Probably a 45mn deal at most.
10-29-2013, 05:05 PM
#18
exhausted
Since I took up time and space in school I know a lot about physics. High velocity gases flowing by a opening create a vacuum. If the headers are tuned correctly one exhaust flow will help pull the next and no two will reach the collector at the same time. I installed LG long tube headers on my 02 but had issues with the oxygen sensors being further away from the engine and got codes ( not all the time ) on the dash.
10-29-2013, 05:46 PM
#19
The question I have with any of these claims is how much was the tune and how much was the headers?
If the tune got ya 40 and the headers 6....
Like to see some independent testing done by someone with no pony in this race!
If the tune got ya 40 and the headers 6....
Like to see some independent testing done by someone with no pony in this race!
10-29-2013, 06:00 PM
#20
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St. Jude Donor '13
can you tell us what kind in changes of mixture in terms of lambda with a stock tune from stock manifold to your header?
(looking to see if it can be run on the stock tune and how much of an impact will they make to stock values)
also what type of variance from cylinder to cylinder in terms of percentage as far as temp and A/F?
BTW looks like a great product for a great price!
(looking to see if it can be run on the stock tune and how much of an impact will they make to stock values)
also what type of variance from cylinder to cylinder in terms of percentage as far as temp and A/F?
BTW looks like a great product for a great price!