C7 seat is killing my back
11-04-2013, 12:12 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
C7 seat is killing my back
I have a bad back. Serious scoliosis (curvature of the spine) and weak musculature. In my old C5, I used a firm seat support to stop me from sinking into the seat cushion and that worked to give me sufficient support so I didn't suffer from compression stress while driving.
The new seats are obviously much firmer and have all the fancy doodads for angle, inflatable lumbar bellows, side bolstering, etc. I figured I would be in much better shape than the old car. But I am actually feeling terrible pain after relatively short stretches of driving.
The problems are twofold. The first is that the lumbar support has no vertical adjustment. It puffs out at its installation height and there's nothing you can do to move it up or down based on your torso length. For me, it hits me at a bad spot and puts too much pressure right at a lower rib protrusion caused by the curvature. So I can't use any inflation.
Much worse is the relative angle between the seat bottom and seat back. The seat bottom angles sharply lower at the far back, creating an acute angle between spine and pelvis and putting extra stress on the lower back muscles.
Now I recognize and fully own the fact that these are my own anatomical issues to deal with. Most healthy drivers will not have issues. At least not in the short term. But I can act as a canary in the coal mine and warn you that the severe bucket seat angle is not going to do anybody much good over a long period of sitting. If you already have lower back problems and are thinking of ordering an early production model without trying it out first, take heed.
I tested and measured a variety of marketed seat and back supports. Nothing fits because of the prominent bolstering wings on our seat bottom and back. All aftermarket seat supports are wide enough so they rest on top of the wings and your weight crushes the sides of your seats. I finally custom ordered a made-to-measure support that will nestle into the flat sections between the wings, both bottom and back. It is going to flare out on the seat bottom and taper down on the vertical rise to match the Corvette's seat design. It will also have a back to front wedge to counteract the bucket drop and get my pelvis back to a more level keel. And I'll be able to put the lumbar curve where I want it.
If that doesn't work, I am going to very sorrowfully have to sell my almost new car that I waited a year to buy in the first run. It's just too painful for me to tour in (mine is used for DD and road trips).
The factory is making my support right now and I should have it in a few weeks. I'll post back here with pictures and my report on its effectiveness.
Take care of your back and thank your lucky stars if yours is healthy and strong!
The new seats are obviously much firmer and have all the fancy doodads for angle, inflatable lumbar bellows, side bolstering, etc. I figured I would be in much better shape than the old car. But I am actually feeling terrible pain after relatively short stretches of driving.
The problems are twofold. The first is that the lumbar support has no vertical adjustment. It puffs out at its installation height and there's nothing you can do to move it up or down based on your torso length. For me, it hits me at a bad spot and puts too much pressure right at a lower rib protrusion caused by the curvature. So I can't use any inflation.
Much worse is the relative angle between the seat bottom and seat back. The seat bottom angles sharply lower at the far back, creating an acute angle between spine and pelvis and putting extra stress on the lower back muscles.
Now I recognize and fully own the fact that these are my own anatomical issues to deal with. Most healthy drivers will not have issues. At least not in the short term. But I can act as a canary in the coal mine and warn you that the severe bucket seat angle is not going to do anybody much good over a long period of sitting. If you already have lower back problems and are thinking of ordering an early production model without trying it out first, take heed.
I tested and measured a variety of marketed seat and back supports. Nothing fits because of the prominent bolstering wings on our seat bottom and back. All aftermarket seat supports are wide enough so they rest on top of the wings and your weight crushes the sides of your seats. I finally custom ordered a made-to-measure support that will nestle into the flat sections between the wings, both bottom and back. It is going to flare out on the seat bottom and taper down on the vertical rise to match the Corvette's seat design. It will also have a back to front wedge to counteract the bucket drop and get my pelvis back to a more level keel. And I'll be able to put the lumbar curve where I want it.
If that doesn't work, I am going to very sorrowfully have to sell my almost new car that I waited a year to buy in the first run. It's just too painful for me to tour in (mine is used for DD and road trips).
The factory is making my support right now and I should have it in a few weeks. I'll post back here with pictures and my report on its effectiveness.
Take care of your back and thank your lucky stars if yours is healthy and strong!
11-04-2013, 12:17 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Try a custom auto upholstery shop. They can do wonders fitting you. A friend has a bad back but most sports cars have very firm seats to hold you in. He went to a custom auto upholstery shop and the tried different foam, I think he ended up with memory foam on several of his cars. They also changed the shape a bit to his preference. Best of luck.
Last edited by rexracerx9; 11-04-2013 at 08:09 AM.
11-04-2013, 01:21 AM
#4
Racer
Before you sell off your car, have you tried aftermarket lumbar supports for cars? Since you have had this issue for some time I would think you have done the standard scouring of the Internet for options. Here is an article on the subject from Edmunds.
NOTE: I feel compelled to issue a parental warning of some sort about this article as it does mention P cars having some of the best lumbar supports. Lord knows putting this up could start a food fight of magnanimous proportions and as a disclaimer, that is not my intent nor should I be held responsible for what may happen next.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/ba...the-wheel.html
NOTE: I feel compelled to issue a parental warning of some sort about this article as it does mention P cars having some of the best lumbar supports. Lord knows putting this up could start a food fight of magnanimous proportions and as a disclaimer, that is not my intent nor should I be held responsible for what may happen next.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/ba...the-wheel.html
11-04-2013, 02:41 AM
#5
Le Mans Master
I am glad you posted this, especially about the seat base dropping down in the back. I have seen this on some cars, and it is not comfortable.
My back is also sensitive to lumbar, although I don't believe I have any physiological abnormality. A friend of mine said he had Recaro seats in one of his cars, and you could put foam pads in the seat back to contour the lumbar as desired. That to me sounds a lot better than a fixed position lumbar adjustment in/out system, that would put lumbar in a seatback with no association to the person's spine curvature. Perhaps there are Recaro seats that would work for you.
Also I have found that small changes in lumbar adjustment can make big changes in comfort. You may want to try different settings for lumbar, and even, base and seat angle. Be sure to test it more than a few minutes. Take a full drive for an hour. I had one car that was killing my back, and after some experimentation, I am OK now.
Michael
My back is also sensitive to lumbar, although I don't believe I have any physiological abnormality. A friend of mine said he had Recaro seats in one of his cars, and you could put foam pads in the seat back to contour the lumbar as desired. That to me sounds a lot better than a fixed position lumbar adjustment in/out system, that would put lumbar in a seatback with no association to the person's spine curvature. Perhaps there are Recaro seats that would work for you.
Also I have found that small changes in lumbar adjustment can make big changes in comfort. You may want to try different settings for lumbar, and even, base and seat angle. Be sure to test it more than a few minutes. Take a full drive for an hour. I had one car that was killing my back, and after some experimentation, I am OK now.
Michael
Last edited by Michael A; 11-04-2013 at 02:47 AM.
11-04-2013, 09:22 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I appreciate the reasoned responses, guys. A few comments and replies and then my plan is to go quiet until my new support comes in.
1) I am extremely leery of being the first on my block to replace seats in the C7! I know nothing about the mechanics involved, but I haven't yet seen any aftermarket replacement seats approved and tested for the connections and dimensions of the car. They will obviously change the look quite a bit. I don't have convenient storage space for the stock seats, which I feel I would need to swap in before an eventual sale. All this makes different seats an avenue of last resort for me.
2) My symptomatic reports are based on well over 1000 miles of driving so far, including long freeway drives of several hours. These are not my snap impressions from a quick test drive. Michael is correct that a few minutes in the car (or any seat) might not cause you to register any pain or problems.
3) Dusty's article about lumbar support is a good one and illustrates my problem nicely. The lumbar support should ideally be low... "Just above the buttocks." In the C7, I feel it much higher on my spine. The Stingray's seat creates the dreaded unsupported "lower back gap" that the article talks about.
4) Yes, I have tried quite a few supports in the car in real driving. I own a few different types and I tried out others at my local Healthy Back retail store. All the commercial "stiff board" models are too wide. They rest on the side wings instead of sitting down in the flat spots of the seat between the wings. This makes them unstable to sit on, since you slide around, and also crushes the bolsters. I was able to use an inflatable cushion down behind my lower back as a lumbar support, which helped. But the seat slope remains the bigger problem, causing the tailbone to sink down into the crease and forming an unnatural pelvic angle. The inflatable cushion does not work for that.
5) The McCarty Sacro-Ease mentioned in Dusty's article felt best to me in testing, although it was too wide for the seat. I called them direct and they worked with me to get my custom dimensions and are making a support to (hopefully) exactly fit the seat. Their support has some cushioning foam, but layered on top of a firm frame. The frame can be custom-bent at an authorized dealer to put the lumbar curve in exactly the right spot for your spine and seat. My fingers are crossed that this proves to be an effective solution. The support bottom will contain a 3:1 wedge, thicker in the rear. The goal is to flatten out the surface I am sitting on to get closer to a 90-degree pelvic angle.
--Ken
1) I am extremely leery of being the first on my block to replace seats in the C7! I know nothing about the mechanics involved, but I haven't yet seen any aftermarket replacement seats approved and tested for the connections and dimensions of the car. They will obviously change the look quite a bit. I don't have convenient storage space for the stock seats, which I feel I would need to swap in before an eventual sale. All this makes different seats an avenue of last resort for me.
2) My symptomatic reports are based on well over 1000 miles of driving so far, including long freeway drives of several hours. These are not my snap impressions from a quick test drive. Michael is correct that a few minutes in the car (or any seat) might not cause you to register any pain or problems.
3) Dusty's article about lumbar support is a good one and illustrates my problem nicely. The lumbar support should ideally be low... "Just above the buttocks." In the C7, I feel it much higher on my spine. The Stingray's seat creates the dreaded unsupported "lower back gap" that the article talks about.
4) Yes, I have tried quite a few supports in the car in real driving. I own a few different types and I tried out others at my local Healthy Back retail store. All the commercial "stiff board" models are too wide. They rest on the side wings instead of sitting down in the flat spots of the seat between the wings. This makes them unstable to sit on, since you slide around, and also crushes the bolsters. I was able to use an inflatable cushion down behind my lower back as a lumbar support, which helped. But the seat slope remains the bigger problem, causing the tailbone to sink down into the crease and forming an unnatural pelvic angle. The inflatable cushion does not work for that.
5) The McCarty Sacro-Ease mentioned in Dusty's article felt best to me in testing, although it was too wide for the seat. I called them direct and they worked with me to get my custom dimensions and are making a support to (hopefully) exactly fit the seat. Their support has some cushioning foam, but layered on top of a firm frame. The frame can be custom-bent at an authorized dealer to put the lumbar curve in exactly the right spot for your spine and seat. My fingers are crossed that this proves to be an effective solution. The support bottom will contain a 3:1 wedge, thicker in the rear. The goal is to flatten out the surface I am sitting on to get closer to a 90-degree pelvic angle.
--Ken
11-04-2013, 09:31 AM
#7
I have a bad back. Serious scoliosis (curvature of the spine) and weak musculature. In my old C5, I used a firm seat support to stop me from sinking into the seat cushion and that worked to give me sufficient support so I didn't suffer from compression stress while driving.
The new seats are obviously much firmer and have all the fancy doodads for angle, inflatable lumbar bellows, side bolstering, etc. I figured I would be in much better shape than the old car. But I am actually feeling terrible pain after relatively short stretches of driving.
The problems are twofold. The first is that the lumbar support has no vertical adjustment. It puffs out at its installation height and there's nothing you can do to move it up or down based on your torso length. For me, it hits me at a bad spot and puts too much pressure right at a lower rib protrusion caused by the curvature. So I can't use any inflation.
Much worse is the relative angle between the seat bottom and seat back. The seat bottom angles sharply lower at the far back, creating an acute angle between spine and pelvis and putting extra stress on the lower back muscles.
Now I recognize and fully own the fact that these are my own anatomical issues to deal with. Most healthy drivers will not have issues. At least not in the short term. But I can act as a canary in the coal mine and warn you that the severe bucket seat angle is not going to do anybody much good over a long period of sitting. If you already have lower back problems and are thinking of ordering an early production model without trying it out first, take heed.
I tested and measured a variety of marketed seat and back supports. Nothing fits because of the prominent bolstering wings on our seat bottom and back. All aftermarket seat supports are wide enough so they rest on top of the wings and your weight crushes the sides of your seats. I finally custom ordered a made-to-measure support that will nestle into the flat sections between the wings, both bottom and back. It is going to flare out on the seat bottom and taper down on the vertical rise to match the Corvette's seat design. It will also have a back to front wedge to counteract the bucket drop and get my pelvis back to a more level keel. And I'll be able to put the lumbar curve where I want it.
If that doesn't work, I am going to very sorrowfully have to sell my almost new car that I waited a year to buy in the first run. It's just too painful for me to tour in (mine is used for DD and road trips).
The factory is making my support right now and I should have it in a few weeks. I'll post back here with pictures and my report on its effectiveness.
Take care of your back and thank your lucky stars if yours is healthy and strong!
The new seats are obviously much firmer and have all the fancy doodads for angle, inflatable lumbar bellows, side bolstering, etc. I figured I would be in much better shape than the old car. But I am actually feeling terrible pain after relatively short stretches of driving.
The problems are twofold. The first is that the lumbar support has no vertical adjustment. It puffs out at its installation height and there's nothing you can do to move it up or down based on your torso length. For me, it hits me at a bad spot and puts too much pressure right at a lower rib protrusion caused by the curvature. So I can't use any inflation.
Much worse is the relative angle between the seat bottom and seat back. The seat bottom angles sharply lower at the far back, creating an acute angle between spine and pelvis and putting extra stress on the lower back muscles.
Now I recognize and fully own the fact that these are my own anatomical issues to deal with. Most healthy drivers will not have issues. At least not in the short term. But I can act as a canary in the coal mine and warn you that the severe bucket seat angle is not going to do anybody much good over a long period of sitting. If you already have lower back problems and are thinking of ordering an early production model without trying it out first, take heed.
I tested and measured a variety of marketed seat and back supports. Nothing fits because of the prominent bolstering wings on our seat bottom and back. All aftermarket seat supports are wide enough so they rest on top of the wings and your weight crushes the sides of your seats. I finally custom ordered a made-to-measure support that will nestle into the flat sections between the wings, both bottom and back. It is going to flare out on the seat bottom and taper down on the vertical rise to match the Corvette's seat design. It will also have a back to front wedge to counteract the bucket drop and get my pelvis back to a more level keel. And I'll be able to put the lumbar curve where I want it.
If that doesn't work, I am going to very sorrowfully have to sell my almost new car that I waited a year to buy in the first run. It's just too painful for me to tour in (mine is used for DD and road trips).
The factory is making my support right now and I should have it in a few weeks. I'll post back here with pictures and my report on its effectiveness.
Take care of your back and thank your lucky stars if yours is healthy and strong!
11-04-2013, 09:38 AM
#8
Race Director
Year ago when US manufacturers made sofa seat, man didn't
think you beat those things for sink down in comfort. Well
friends started buying BMW and Mercedes. I would sit in those
seat and think damn board stiff. But came to find could ride
much longer and less ache in those than our sofa seats.
So europeans have been in tune with the human back much
longer than US.
think you beat those things for sink down in comfort. Well
friends started buying BMW and Mercedes. I would sit in those
seat and think damn board stiff. But came to find could ride
much longer and less ache in those than our sofa seats.
So europeans have been in tune with the human back much
longer than US.
11-04-2013, 09:46 AM
#9
Team Owner
Year ago when US manufacturers made sofa seat, man didn't
think you beat those things for sink down in comfort. Well
friends started buying BMW and Mercedes. I would sit in those
seat and think damn board stiff. But came to find could ride
much longer and less ache in those than our sofa seats.
So europeans have been in tune with the human back much
longer than US.
think you beat those things for sink down in comfort. Well
friends started buying BMW and Mercedes. I would sit in those
seat and think damn board stiff. But came to find could ride
much longer and less ache in those than our sofa seats.
So europeans have been in tune with the human back much
longer than US.
My Mom also had a Mercedes and the board stiff seat hurt her back and butt, but she was in her late 70's and early 80's.
11-04-2013, 09:46 AM
#10
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: NE South Carolina
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Loved the seat in my C6. Even my wife’s Porsche Cayenne isn’t comfortable until I play with the position of the lumbar support. I was anxious to see how the C7 seat felt! It is great for me-my back feels great! I don’t have a back problem but apparently a lumbar support in the wrong place is sufficient to cause pain!
Last edited by JerryU; 11-04-2013 at 09:53 AM.
11-04-2013, 10:14 AM
#11
Administrator
Member Since: Mar 2001
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Sure hope the support device you have on order does the trick. Would be a shame to have to sell the car after such a short period.
11-04-2013, 11:26 AM
#13
Try a custom auto upholstery shop. They can do wonders fitting you. A friend has a bad back but most sports cars have very firm seats to hold you in. He went to a custom auto upholstery shop and the tried different foam, I think he ended up with memory foam on several of his cars. They also changed the shape a bit to his preference. Best of luck.
11-04-2013, 11:50 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
The worst seat I ever had in a car was in a Toyota Camry and I sold that car because of it. And the most comfortable seat by far I ever had in any car was in my 2005 Pontiac GTO - still miss those seats. I actually find my C6 seats pretty comfortable.
Comfortable or uncomfortable seats can absolutely make or break enjoyable car ownership. Hope you work this out -any back pain is certainly miserable. Good luck
Comfortable or uncomfortable seats can absolutely make or break enjoyable car ownership. Hope you work this out -any back pain is certainly miserable. Good luck
12-20-2013, 04:00 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Keeping this thread updated just in case anybody else with back problems should ever need some reference material in a forum search.
The custom version of the Sacro-Ease I ordered from McCarty was perfectly made to my dimensions. It fit nicely between the bolsters on bottom and vertical sides. They put an expanding trapezoid on the seat to match the Corvette bottom and a reducing taper on the back to match the seat back. Looks really weird when held up by itself, but nestles right into the Corvette seat.
Tried it out and found that there was just too much comfort foam in the support. I was riding above the level of the bolsters and sliding from side to side. It also put my head very high. I could still fit in the car, but it was a bit claustrophobic.
So I contacted McCarty and they agreed to remake the support with minimal foam. They covered all costs of remake and shipping. I also dealt with a real human being at all times. I can't say enough nice things about the company.
They shipped it back to me and the seat bottom was much improved. But they didn't take any foam out of the back rise, so it was still pushing me out from the seat and causing me to slide around on spirited corners. The bottom and back are joined with sturdy riveted metal brackets, so I can't easily separate them and try the seat bottom alone. It's still not comfortable enough to justify driving around in this price level of a car. I have to sadly count this as a failed experiment.
My local dealer (Hendrick Chevrolet of Cary) has some wonderful Corvette experts that I have built a friendly relationship with. Milos and Trevor get my full recommendation if you are looking for a C7 in the Raleigh/Cary/Apex area. They had a new vert with competition seats in the showroom and kindly let me sit in it today for about 20 minutes. I obviously wasn't actively mashing through gears, but my back did seem to feel better in these seats than the tourers.
I think it has to do with a bit less cushioning, so you hit the firmness of the seat pan and don't angle as much into the rear crevice. The lower portion of the seat back is also a little different. It hits the roll-in a little higher and acts as more of a lower back support. You can compare in this stock photo:
Anyway, it seemed more supportive to me and more comfortable. Without an extended test drive it is hard to tell for sure. But I am going to work with Hendrick to see if we can work a reasonable deal to do a trade-in of my almost new touring seats edition for a new identically-optioned order with competition seats.
Here's hoping...
The custom version of the Sacro-Ease I ordered from McCarty was perfectly made to my dimensions. It fit nicely between the bolsters on bottom and vertical sides. They put an expanding trapezoid on the seat to match the Corvette bottom and a reducing taper on the back to match the seat back. Looks really weird when held up by itself, but nestles right into the Corvette seat.
Tried it out and found that there was just too much comfort foam in the support. I was riding above the level of the bolsters and sliding from side to side. It also put my head very high. I could still fit in the car, but it was a bit claustrophobic.
So I contacted McCarty and they agreed to remake the support with minimal foam. They covered all costs of remake and shipping. I also dealt with a real human being at all times. I can't say enough nice things about the company.
They shipped it back to me and the seat bottom was much improved. But they didn't take any foam out of the back rise, so it was still pushing me out from the seat and causing me to slide around on spirited corners. The bottom and back are joined with sturdy riveted metal brackets, so I can't easily separate them and try the seat bottom alone. It's still not comfortable enough to justify driving around in this price level of a car. I have to sadly count this as a failed experiment.
My local dealer (Hendrick Chevrolet of Cary) has some wonderful Corvette experts that I have built a friendly relationship with. Milos and Trevor get my full recommendation if you are looking for a C7 in the Raleigh/Cary/Apex area. They had a new vert with competition seats in the showroom and kindly let me sit in it today for about 20 minutes. I obviously wasn't actively mashing through gears, but my back did seem to feel better in these seats than the tourers.
I think it has to do with a bit less cushioning, so you hit the firmness of the seat pan and don't angle as much into the rear crevice. The lower portion of the seat back is also a little different. It hits the roll-in a little higher and acts as more of a lower back support. You can compare in this stock photo:
Anyway, it seemed more supportive to me and more comfortable. Without an extended test drive it is hard to tell for sure. But I am going to work with Hendrick to see if we can work a reasonable deal to do a trade-in of my almost new touring seats edition for a new identically-optioned order with competition seats.
Here's hoping...
12-20-2013, 06:43 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
I've had 6 Corvettes, and taken many long trips, and found the seats all to be very comfortable. I don't have a C7 yet, but I've sat in a few and found them to be comfortable.
Here are my suggestions:
Completely deflate the lumbar.
Seats are sometimes more adjustable when not at the limits. So, move the seat forward a bit, and raise the seat bottom up a bit.
Lower the front of the seat bottom all the way. Lower the seat.
Tilt the backrest back to where it's comfortable, and then a bit more.
The way I see it, if you are reclined a third of the way to laying flat, you are putting a third of the weight of your head and upper torso on the backrest. When you sit upright all the weight is on your lower spine.
Here are my suggestions:
Completely deflate the lumbar.
Seats are sometimes more adjustable when not at the limits. So, move the seat forward a bit, and raise the seat bottom up a bit.
Lower the front of the seat bottom all the way. Lower the seat.
Tilt the backrest back to where it's comfortable, and then a bit more.
The way I see it, if you are reclined a third of the way to laying flat, you are putting a third of the weight of your head and upper torso on the backrest. When you sit upright all the weight is on your lower spine.
12-20-2013, 06:57 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
I'm wondering if you couldn't take the seat mount nuts off the back,
put a spacer under the back ends of the sliders and re-attach. If needed, maybe even add extensions (grade 8) to the mount studs
to gain a little more height in the rear, then you may more easily
approach the 90 degree angle you are looking for. Just thinking out loud??
put a spacer under the back ends of the sliders and re-attach. If needed, maybe even add extensions (grade 8) to the mount studs
to gain a little more height in the rear, then you may more easily
approach the 90 degree angle you are looking for. Just thinking out loud??
12-20-2013, 07:23 PM
#19
Pro
Anyway, it seemed more supportive to me and more comfortable. Without an extended test drive it is hard to tell for sure. But I am going to work with Hendrick to see if we can work a reasonable deal to do a trade-in of my almost new touring seats edition for a new identically-optioned order with competition seats.
Here's hoping...
Scott
12-20-2013, 07:50 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
I had Recaro LX seats back in the 1980s (still have them converted into office chairs), and they had the insertable foam wedge. They were very firm and very comfortable.
I would suggest that the factory inflatable lumbar support might be moved down. Also, as others have mentioned, a good upholstery shop might be able to re-contour the seat for you and would have the advantage of being able to do it with you coming in for test fittings.
Good luck!
I would suggest that the factory inflatable lumbar support might be moved down. Also, as others have mentioned, a good upholstery shop might be able to re-contour the seat for you and would have the advantage of being able to do it with you coming in for test fittings.
Good luck!