Test Drove C7, Disappointing Gearing
10-30-2014, 03:20 PM
#41
Team Owner
10-30-2014, 09:50 PM
#42
Race Director
I would suggest it's not the gearing that you are concerned with and experiencing but rather the electronic throttle mapping.
I have this on my c6 z51 m6 and it transforms the driving experience.
Gm is not the only manufacturer that numbs down the throttle response on the first portion of throttle pedal movement.
My good buddies viper is also lethargic in throttle response and in my opinion it is the corporations way to keep these higher hp vehicles safer to drive for newbies. It probably also allows for better cafe and EPA fuel efficiency.
The COW BOOSTER resolves that concern by remapping of the throttle response to closer mimic the old days of actual throttle cables....
The more direct response of the pedal movement to what the drivers brain feels would be a more appropriate response.
I test drove the c7 and noticed the difference immediately.
I strongly suggest the COW BOOSTER before changing gearing.
It's 200 dollars and totally reversible in minutes.
I haven't shopped the cow booster for the c7 yet so you ll have to check with Chuck at corvettes of westchester to see if it's available.
You can probably find someone local to test drive a corvette c6 so equipped.he travels the country quite often and I also think he has a hand held tuner as well for those who like that option.
I hope this helped.
Btw BMW has a shift in throttle response mapping as you change options on the menu because it does offer an interesting driving experience.
Fwiw...back in the late 70 s I owned a turbocharged lancia scorpion that I had built and it quite closely mimics the new alfa 4c.
I read your post and would suggest the Alfa 4c might suit you quite well.
It's intimacy and responsiveness will be legendary even if it's quite a bit slower than the standard corvette.
Good luck deciding. Both great choices...
10-30-2014, 11:35 PM
#43
Former Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Ossining New York
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Thank you!
This COW booster plugs into the obd plug under the drivers side dash and it remaps the throttle response.
I would suggest it's not the gearing that you are concerned with and experiencing but rather the electronic throttle mapping.
I have this on my c6 z51 m6 and it transforms the driving experience.
Gm is not the only manufacturer that numbs down the throttle response on the first portion of throttle pedal movement.
My good buddies viper is also lethargic in throttle response and in my opinion it is the corporations way to keep these higher hp vehicles safer to drive for newbies. It probably also allows for better cafe and EPA fuel efficiency.
The COW BOOSTER resolves that concern by remapping of the throttle response to closer mimic the old days of actual throttle cables....
The more direct response of the pedal movement to what the drivers brain feels would be a more appropriate response.
I test drove the c7 and noticed the difference immediately.
I strongly suggest the COW BOOSTER before changing gearing.
It's 200 dollars and totally reversible in minutes.
I haven't shopped the cow booster for the c7 yet so you ll have to check with Chuck at corvettes of westchester to see if it's available.
You can probably find someone local to test drive a corvette c6 so equipped.he travels the country quite often and I also think he has a hand held tuner as well for those who like that option.
I hope this helped.
Btw BMW has a shift in throttle response mapping as you change options on the menu because it does offer an interesting driving experience.
Fwiw...back in the late 70 s I owned a turbocharged lancia scorpion that I had built and it quite closely mimics the new alfa 4c.
I read your post and would suggest the Alfa 4c might suit you quite well.
It's intimacy and responsiveness will be legendary even if it's quite a bit slower than the standard corvette.
Good luck deciding. Both great choices...
I would suggest it's not the gearing that you are concerned with and experiencing but rather the electronic throttle mapping.
I have this on my c6 z51 m6 and it transforms the driving experience.
Gm is not the only manufacturer that numbs down the throttle response on the first portion of throttle pedal movement.
My good buddies viper is also lethargic in throttle response and in my opinion it is the corporations way to keep these higher hp vehicles safer to drive for newbies. It probably also allows for better cafe and EPA fuel efficiency.
The COW BOOSTER resolves that concern by remapping of the throttle response to closer mimic the old days of actual throttle cables....
The more direct response of the pedal movement to what the drivers brain feels would be a more appropriate response.
I test drove the c7 and noticed the difference immediately.
I strongly suggest the COW BOOSTER before changing gearing.
It's 200 dollars and totally reversible in minutes.
I haven't shopped the cow booster for the c7 yet so you ll have to check with Chuck at corvettes of westchester to see if it's available.
You can probably find someone local to test drive a corvette c6 so equipped.he travels the country quite often and I also think he has a hand held tuner as well for those who like that option.
I hope this helped.
Btw BMW has a shift in throttle response mapping as you change options on the menu because it does offer an interesting driving experience.
Fwiw...back in the late 70 s I owned a turbocharged lancia scorpion that I had built and it quite closely mimics the new alfa 4c.
I read your post and would suggest the Alfa 4c might suit you quite well.
It's intimacy and responsiveness will be legendary even if it's quite a bit slower than the standard corvette.
Good luck deciding. Both great choices...
Thank you! Glad you like my "snake oil".
CoW BOOSTER! fits in the same category as "castor oil"....
It's REALLY GOOD for you... It's just that too many people are too stupid to know what's good for them.
BTW, YES.... We've got CoW BOOSTER! mapped out for the C7 as well.
And.... YES, I'm working on gears for the AutoMatic C7 too.
Chuck CoW
10-31-2014, 08:40 AM
#44
Le Mans Master
Car really is a 4 speed. 5-->7 are various overdrive gears so pick one for your cruising speed.
The Corvette is a large V8 with torque. I wouldn't want a close-ratio geared car (think Honda S2000 / Mitsubishi Evo etc) where I have to constantly shift the car to keep the car in a power band. I've driven them multiple times and while they are fun and have their place I'd rather have a car I can get some decent pick up in any gear.
If you don't find the C7 has enough power I don't know what to tell you. I think it's got plenty of grunt and is a fun ride. I say that despite the fact that I have a blown 10 second C6 in the garage too. That'll make the C7 feel like it's going backwards and yet I still think the C7 has a good amount of punch.
The Corvette is a large V8 with torque. I wouldn't want a close-ratio geared car (think Honda S2000 / Mitsubishi Evo etc) where I have to constantly shift the car to keep the car in a power band. I've driven them multiple times and while they are fun and have their place I'd rather have a car I can get some decent pick up in any gear.
If you don't find the C7 has enough power I don't know what to tell you. I think it's got plenty of grunt and is a fun ride. I say that despite the fact that I have a blown 10 second C6 in the garage too. That'll make the C7 feel like it's going backwards and yet I still think the C7 has a good amount of punch.
11-01-2014, 11:08 AM
#45
Burning Brakes
Bluesman, you seem to have an interesting point. I find the C7 Z51 to be an absolute beast 1st thru 4th, where I find the gearing pretty darned spot on, with all the pull, hp and torque I could ever want, especially in track mode which makes the car much more raw. 5th and 6th are cruising gears, and 7th has use when highway traffic is going 75mph or above - otherwise I just never use it. But I think it'd be disappointing if 1st thru 4th were closer as otherwise I think rowing through 7 gears would be irritating.
I can't imagine what the gearing feels like in the Z06. I'd think you'd be going 80 mph in 2nd and barely pulling. Interested to drive one someday!
(and completely agree about lack of pop/burble on the NPP). My C6 sings with the Borla ATAK. But easy enough to do an aftermarket exhaust.
I can't imagine what the gearing feels like in the Z06. I'd think you'd be going 80 mph in 2nd and barely pulling. Interested to drive one someday!
(and completely agree about lack of pop/burble on the NPP). My C6 sings with the Borla ATAK. But easy enough to do an aftermarket exhaust.
11-01-2014, 12:02 PM
#46
You don't read too much feedback on the M7 trans; so it's nice to see that. The C7 Z51 has the same exact 1-6 gear ratios and rear end ratio as the C6 Z51 so the difference would be in the motors. The LT1 has more power in the lower rpms and throughout the entire power band so it should feel stronger on the top end as well. Curious to hear some feedback from previous C5 owners on the comparison.
On a similar note, the trans ratios in the new A8 are insanely aggressive (especially with the 2.73 rear) which would account for the outstanding performance reported by owners. They're more aggressive than the outgoing A6. Just some food for thought.
On a similar note, the trans ratios in the new A8 are insanely aggressive (especially with the 2.73 rear) which would account for the outstanding performance reported by owners. They're more aggressive than the outgoing A6. Just some food for thought.
11-01-2014, 12:52 PM
#47
Team Owner
Bluesman, you seem to have an interesting point. I find the C7 Z51 to be an absolute beast 1st thru 4th, where I find the gearing pretty darned spot on, with all the pull, hp and torque I could ever want, especially in track mode which makes the car much more raw. 5th and 6th are cruising gears, and 7th has use when highway traffic is going 75mph or above - otherwise I just never use it. But I think it'd be disappointing if 1st thru 4th were closer as otherwise I think rowing through 7 gears would be irritating.
I can't imagine what the gearing feels like in the Z06. I'd think you'd be going 80 mph in 2nd and barely pulling. Interested to drive one someday!
(and completely agree about lack of pop/burble on the NPP). My C6 sings with the Borla ATAK. But easy enough to do an aftermarket exhaust.
I can't imagine what the gearing feels like in the Z06. I'd think you'd be going 80 mph in 2nd and barely pulling. Interested to drive one someday!
(and completely agree about lack of pop/burble on the NPP). My C6 sings with the Borla ATAK. But easy enough to do an aftermarket exhaust.
With the C7 Z06 you will do 65 MPH in 1st, 93 MPH in 2nd, 124 MPH in 3rd and 150 MPH in 4th, compared to 50 MPH in 1st, 72 MPH in 2nd, 105 MPH in 3rd and 150 MPH in 4th with the Z51.
Last edited by JoesC5; 11-01-2014 at 12:55 PM.
11-01-2014, 12:53 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
I agree except for your use of 7th gear. The Z51 has .48:1 7th gear compared to my C6 Z06's .50:1 6th gear. I shift into 6th gear any time I'm running over 60 MPH(1300 RPM) on the highway, and have no problems cruising at that speed while getting 29-30 MPG.
With the C7 Z06 you will do 65 MPH in1st, 93 MPH in 2nd, 124 MPH in 3rd and 150 MPH in 4th, compared to 50 MPH in 1st, 72 MPH in 2nd, 105 MPH in 3rd and 150 MPH in 4hth with the Z51.
With the C7 Z06 you will do 65 MPH in1st, 93 MPH in 2nd, 124 MPH in 3rd and 150 MPH in 4th, compared to 50 MPH in 1st, 72 MPH in 2nd, 105 MPH in 3rd and 150 MPH in 4hth with the Z51.
11-01-2014, 04:17 PM
#49
"It's a 2nd gear car around town"
Ya, no $#!+
Who's tacking it up in 3rd around town? You go 100mph a lot around town?
Seriously though...
Ya, no $#!+
Who's tacking it up in 3rd around town? You go 100mph a lot around town?
Seriously though...
Last edited by C7pimp; 11-01-2014 at 04:20 PM.
11-01-2014, 05:52 PM
#51
Team Owner
Sure, but it depends on whether it is a base/Z06 or a Z51.
1st row is for the base/Z06's 2.41 rear gear and the 2nd row is for the Z51'a 2.73.
1st gear-----47mph-----41mph.
2nd gear----72mph-----63mph.
3rd gear---103mph-----90mph.
4th gear---126mph----111mph.
5th gear---168mph----148mph.
1st row is for the base/Z06's 2.41 rear gear and the 2nd row is for the Z51'a 2.73.
1st gear-----47mph-----41mph.
2nd gear----72mph-----63mph.
3rd gear---103mph-----90mph.
4th gear---126mph----111mph.
5th gear---168mph----148mph.
11-01-2014, 05:55 PM
#52
Le Mans Master
Sure, but it depends on whether it is a base/Z06 or a Z51.
1st row is for the base/Z06's 2.41 rear gear and the 2nd row is for the Z51'a 2.73.
1st gear-----47mph-----41mph.
2nd gear----72mph-----63mph.
3rd gear---103mph-----90mph.
4th gear---126mph----111mph.
5th gear---168mph----148mph.
1st row is for the base/Z06's 2.41 rear gear and the 2nd row is for the Z51'a 2.73.
1st gear-----47mph-----41mph.
2nd gear----72mph-----63mph.
3rd gear---103mph-----90mph.
4th gear---126mph----111mph.
5th gear---168mph----148mph.
11-01-2014, 06:01 PM
#53
Team Owner
I'm usually in 3rd at 30 MPH and into 4th gear at 40 MPH around town.
Just because I can hit 125 MPH at 7,000 RPM in 3nd gear doesn't mean that I actually drive around town in 3nd gear at 125 MPH, or at 90 MPH in 2nd gear, or at 60 MPH in 1st gear
Last edited by JoesC5; 11-01-2014 at 06:20 PM.
11-01-2014, 07:38 PM
#54
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Member Since: May 2014
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I certainly understand your point and additional gearing options
would be a lovely addition, however,
often the butt-dyno is deceiving and the higher gears produce better performance!
Perhaps, an FI equipped C7 would produce the desired "Abarth" experience...
LA
would be a lovely addition, however,
often the butt-dyno is deceiving and the higher gears produce better performance!
Perhaps, an FI equipped C7 would produce the desired "Abarth" experience...
LA
11-02-2014, 10:37 AM
#55
Melting Slicks
[QUOTE=BLKTA;1588167293]You don't read too much feedback on the M7 trans; so it's nice to see that. The C7 Z51 has the same exact 1-6 gear ratios and rear end ratio as the C6 Z51 so the difference would be in the motors. The LT1 has more power in the lower rpms and throughout the entire power band so it should feel stronger on the top end as well. Curious to hear some feedback from previous C5 owners on the comparison.
I started out reading this and thinking of some sweet country roads I'd like to try the c7 on for the next 11 years the way I have enjoyed my C5. If I need to pull hard in 4th I have to have it high in the no. of revs. 1 - 3 pulls great to me.
I haven't complained once about the "measly" 345 horses my C5 has in it, so I can't understand the complaining and bickering from 460 horses. I guess some have to look for jabs on what other people have bought.
I'm sorry you guys in the C7's only have two gears that pull, I'll still wave at ya'll when we pass.
I started out reading this and thinking of some sweet country roads I'd like to try the c7 on for the next 11 years the way I have enjoyed my C5. If I need to pull hard in 4th I have to have it high in the no. of revs. 1 - 3 pulls great to me.
I haven't complained once about the "measly" 345 horses my C5 has in it, so I can't understand the complaining and bickering from 460 horses. I guess some have to look for jabs on what other people have bought.
I'm sorry you guys in the C7's only have two gears that pull, I'll still wave at ya'll when we pass.
11-02-2014, 12:28 PM
#56
Race Director
Here is just a short list of fanastic award winning cars...
1983 Renault Alliance
2002 Ford Thunderbird
1971 Chevrolet Vega
1997 Cadillac Caterra
1985 Merkur XR4Ti
1997 Chevrolet Malibu
1990 Lincoln Town Car
1980 Chevrolet Citation
1974 Ford Mustang II
1995 Ford Contour/Mercury
11-02-2014, 01:26 PM
#57
Wonder why they basically kept the 1968 front end then? However, what you'd have is a Cobaltesque rear end. I must admit, the runway landing-approachesque, H00T Owl tailights look was getting a tad long-in-tooth. That said, they could have done a far better job of the rear end though, that's just their shortfall.
Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 11-02-2014 at 01:37 PM.
11-02-2014, 01:33 PM
#58
To be fair...They are wrong quite often.
Here is just a short list of fanastic award winning cars...
1983 Renault Alliance
2002 Ford Thunderbird
1971 Chevrolet Vega
1997 Cadillac Caterra
1985 Merkur XR4Ti
1997 Chevrolet Malibu
1990 Lincoln Town Car
1980 Chevrolet Citation
1974 Ford Mustang II
1995 Ford Contour/Mercury
Here is just a short list of fanastic award winning cars...
1983 Renault Alliance
2002 Ford Thunderbird
1971 Chevrolet Vega
1997 Cadillac Caterra
1985 Merkur XR4Ti
1997 Chevrolet Malibu
1990 Lincoln Town Car
1980 Chevrolet Citation
1974 Ford Mustang II
1995 Ford Contour/Mercury
The magazines fawn all over anything new. Either that or get no ad revenues from the carmakers. Some haven't figured that out I guess.
The C4 was heralded as the next Big Thing too - how'd that work out for GM?
11-02-2014, 02:09 PM
#59
Safety Car
Let me start by saying I have owned over 45 cars, and many of them high performance. I drove an LT1 Z51 C7 convertible with 7 speed std trans., mag ride for an hour today on back roads and highways and this is my take.
I guess I was expecting more (concerning the drive-line ) especially with all the ultra positive reviews on line and on Youtube. I am not a young kid, I am over 50 and I like to drive briskly and really enjoy the intoxicating sound and feel of a strong engine. I love the feel of breaking loose tires and pushing a car. I have experience driving several cars including a Porsche 996 Twin turbo on the track. I would highly recommend this car 100% for anyone that is more into Grand touring driving, or matching the performance numbers the car can produce. I am strictly complaining about Visceral feel and unusable gears.
First my positive thoughts (of which there are many)
The chassis is fantastic, clutch light, steering direct and communicative, shifter positive, the electronics amazing, and the convertible top mechanism superb. The seats in the LT1 are very comfortable. I am not sure the LT2 and LT3 seats are as comfortable cause of the added lumber and power bolsters (my personal feeling with my sensitive lower back) In first and second the car pulls hard and breaks the tires loose and the acceleration and sound is awesome (because the car is revving so high) . The chassis of the car is also fantastic at all speeds and feels nimble and compact. The difference from touring to sport settings in the reduction of body roll is fantastic.
There is also above average wind buffeting inside the cockpit on the highway with the windows up, a big deal for me. it is kind of loud with the top up, certainly not word class here but acceptable and light years better than my old C5.
Now for my criticisms
Small things like terrible rear visibility when backing up and so-so visibility when lane changing on the track/highway viewing side mirrors and rearward are something you need to check out for yourself, and maybe something you get used to. Again convertible review here.
The much loved electronic performance exhaust (in this convertible) for me sounded OK, but I was getting tired of it after 30 minutes and I wish there was more burble and popping, not much character to it in my opinion (see more later). Not a sound I would find myself craving...
Now for the big deal. The gearing in the car for me is all wrong. After you shift from second to third the intoxicating power ( for around town blasts up to 50 mph ish) is all gone. I am talking about in any mode, track, sport, tour, any. So if you are in a mood to really feel the torque and power of the car, play and have fun, it is basically a 2 gear car around town, yes it is a 2 speed around town! Shift into third and play time is over (overall geared to high)
On the highway, 4th is really the only gear that still pulls and I am talking about at 70 or 80+ MPH, normal reasonable speeds. Shift into 5th and the power is mostly gone. So again if you are driving aggressively up to say 80 MPH the car is a 4 speed, yes a 4 speed. 5th is OK and will pull, but the revs really need to be up and you need to be going over 80MPH. 6th and 7th, well, strictly mileage gears only for sure. I understand the need to get good gas mileage, but why didn't they offer like a 3.73 rear end as and option in the Z51? I am not talking drag racing here I am talking about really wanting to enjoy the car in reasonable, but fast and aggressive everyday Corvette Z51 performance package driving.
I had this same problem when I went shopping for a Mustang GT in 2012. I test drove all three rear end gear ratios and none of the cars for me had enough WOW factor low end torque until I finally test drove the 3.73 rear end car, and WOW, OMG, I was sold. It was like a totally different car. I bought this car and after my test drive. I average 19 MPG driving hard frequently. I also added $250 GT500 mufflers and the car is quiet, yet the sound it makes is intoxicating, it roars, burbles and pops on let off, the best. As I have found out with many different exhausts over the years, loud doesn't equate to good. Mustang is better IMO than the stingray. I am surprized myself! When driving back to back the 412HP mustang feels almost as fast based on seat of the pants. It is clearly slower, But I only paid $32K with lots of options.
I also own a 2013 Fiat Abarth. Obviously a completely different car. I just have to add that the factory stock muffler-less exhaust is also absolutely visceral and addicting.
In closing let me say I have always been a GM guy. My Mustang GT is the only Ford I have ever owned. I love the C7 Corvette chassis and I think by simply offering some additional rear end gear ratio options they would transfer this lovely machine into a visceral beast without the owner having to spring for a Z06 option. I think on the track with Z57 package where absolute performance not visceral feel matters , or as a grand touring machine (base model coupe) this car is awesome. It just seems to be missing that kick in the pants visceral feel and spending $70K for a 4 speed car seems somehow kind of silly. Let the angry name calling responses fly!
I guess I was expecting more (concerning the drive-line ) especially with all the ultra positive reviews on line and on Youtube. I am not a young kid, I am over 50 and I like to drive briskly and really enjoy the intoxicating sound and feel of a strong engine. I love the feel of breaking loose tires and pushing a car. I have experience driving several cars including a Porsche 996 Twin turbo on the track. I would highly recommend this car 100% for anyone that is more into Grand touring driving, or matching the performance numbers the car can produce. I am strictly complaining about Visceral feel and unusable gears.
First my positive thoughts (of which there are many)
The chassis is fantastic, clutch light, steering direct and communicative, shifter positive, the electronics amazing, and the convertible top mechanism superb. The seats in the LT1 are very comfortable. I am not sure the LT2 and LT3 seats are as comfortable cause of the added lumber and power bolsters (my personal feeling with my sensitive lower back) In first and second the car pulls hard and breaks the tires loose and the acceleration and sound is awesome (because the car is revving so high) . The chassis of the car is also fantastic at all speeds and feels nimble and compact. The difference from touring to sport settings in the reduction of body roll is fantastic.
There is also above average wind buffeting inside the cockpit on the highway with the windows up, a big deal for me. it is kind of loud with the top up, certainly not word class here but acceptable and light years better than my old C5.
Now for my criticisms
Small things like terrible rear visibility when backing up and so-so visibility when lane changing on the track/highway viewing side mirrors and rearward are something you need to check out for yourself, and maybe something you get used to. Again convertible review here.
The much loved electronic performance exhaust (in this convertible) for me sounded OK, but I was getting tired of it after 30 minutes and I wish there was more burble and popping, not much character to it in my opinion (see more later). Not a sound I would find myself craving...
Now for the big deal. The gearing in the car for me is all wrong. After you shift from second to third the intoxicating power ( for around town blasts up to 50 mph ish) is all gone. I am talking about in any mode, track, sport, tour, any. So if you are in a mood to really feel the torque and power of the car, play and have fun, it is basically a 2 gear car around town, yes it is a 2 speed around town! Shift into third and play time is over (overall geared to high)
On the highway, 4th is really the only gear that still pulls and I am talking about at 70 or 80+ MPH, normal reasonable speeds. Shift into 5th and the power is mostly gone. So again if you are driving aggressively up to say 80 MPH the car is a 4 speed, yes a 4 speed. 5th is OK and will pull, but the revs really need to be up and you need to be going over 80MPH. 6th and 7th, well, strictly mileage gears only for sure. I understand the need to get good gas mileage, but why didn't they offer like a 3.73 rear end as and option in the Z51? I am not talking drag racing here I am talking about really wanting to enjoy the car in reasonable, but fast and aggressive everyday Corvette Z51 performance package driving.
I had this same problem when I went shopping for a Mustang GT in 2012. I test drove all three rear end gear ratios and none of the cars for me had enough WOW factor low end torque until I finally test drove the 3.73 rear end car, and WOW, OMG, I was sold. It was like a totally different car. I bought this car and after my test drive. I average 19 MPG driving hard frequently. I also added $250 GT500 mufflers and the car is quiet, yet the sound it makes is intoxicating, it roars, burbles and pops on let off, the best. As I have found out with many different exhausts over the years, loud doesn't equate to good. Mustang is better IMO than the stingray. I am surprized myself! When driving back to back the 412HP mustang feels almost as fast based on seat of the pants. It is clearly slower, But I only paid $32K with lots of options.
I also own a 2013 Fiat Abarth. Obviously a completely different car. I just have to add that the factory stock muffler-less exhaust is also absolutely visceral and addicting.
In closing let me say I have always been a GM guy. My Mustang GT is the only Ford I have ever owned. I love the C7 Corvette chassis and I think by simply offering some additional rear end gear ratio options they would transfer this lovely machine into a visceral beast without the owner having to spring for a Z06 option. I think on the track with Z57 package where absolute performance not visceral feel matters , or as a grand touring machine (base model coupe) this car is awesome. It just seems to be missing that kick in the pants visceral feel and spending $70K for a 4 speed car seems somehow kind of silly. Let the angry name calling responses fly!
I do know what you mean about the gearing.But with the torque from 1st
And 2nd,I can live with the rest.
This is the 1st 2 seater that I've ever had.I'm having A blast.
