Confused about tires!
11-19-2014, 11:05 AM
#1
Confused about tires!
I live in Southern California so 40 and 20 degree days are not really an issue for me. I am not an attorney so I am not knowledgeable of liabilities but.....I am amazed that it would appear that the Corvette owners are standing still for this "frozen" tire issue!
Do dealers in colder climates tell you, before ordering or buying a new C7, that your tires are not suitable for any type of cold weather driving and you are looking at a $1,500 bill for new tires in order to drive your car? Do they tell you that to do so could result in cut tires, damage to the car and or a loss of traction that could result in an accident?
Do buyers really pay $85K for a car that is unsuitable for use 6 months out of the year? I understand that Corvette owners are MACHO but this seems unbelievable to me.
I would think that Michelin and GM would be working feverishly to develop a suitable replacement tire for this car! This seems very unusual to me. It would one thing if they offered a suitable tire and as an option and you could order summer tires but I saw no available option for all season tires!
Lastly, since the current weather in BG is well under 20F does this mean that every car built and stored there has defective tires as the instructions are quite clear that they must not be stored, driven or test driven in conditions that are below 20F. How do they load them on a truck? Do they use a winch?
I think that you get my point, but as owners what are we doing about this?
WOW!
Do dealers in colder climates tell you, before ordering or buying a new C7, that your tires are not suitable for any type of cold weather driving and you are looking at a $1,500 bill for new tires in order to drive your car? Do they tell you that to do so could result in cut tires, damage to the car and or a loss of traction that could result in an accident?
Do buyers really pay $85K for a car that is unsuitable for use 6 months out of the year? I understand that Corvette owners are MACHO but this seems unbelievable to me.
I would think that Michelin and GM would be working feverishly to develop a suitable replacement tire for this car! This seems very unusual to me. It would one thing if they offered a suitable tire and as an option and you could order summer tires but I saw no available option for all season tires!
Lastly, since the current weather in BG is well under 20F does this mean that every car built and stored there has defective tires as the instructions are quite clear that they must not be stored, driven or test driven in conditions that are below 20F. How do they load them on a truck? Do they use a winch?
I think that you get my point, but as owners what are we doing about this?
WOW!
11-19-2014, 11:52 AM
#3
Race Director
Z51 tires have cracked in the past. The base car tire is considerably more tolerant but cold temperatures are a consideration. I live at South Central Pennsylvania, sub 20 degree temperatures seldom happen. Except now (?), last night temperatures hovered at the 20 degree mark, even though the night was totally clear left the car in the garage and used the wife's Cobalt. Didn't want to chance ruining the tires, warmer days are expected this weekend.
11-19-2014, 11:57 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
So if you buy your C7 in the winter, it still comes with summer tires...?
11-19-2014, 12:07 PM
#6
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Go to the guru of tire sites, TireRack. Look at the description of tires: Summer, Ultra High Perf. Summer, Max Perf. Summer, All Season, Winter, etc. Why do you think a tire site would give these classifications which then get put on the tires that go on cars? There are different tires for different occasions, like weather.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...=57950&tab=All
They also have definitions of those terms: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/tiretype.jsp
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...=57950&tab=All
They also have definitions of those terms: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/tiretype.jsp
11-19-2014, 01:53 PM
#7
Drifting
I agree with you 1000%. What can we do about it.............for me this was the stumbling block as to why I didn't buy a C7 last week------all the negotiations were finalized and then I learned about the tires.
In essence, I would be buying a car that I couldn't even test drive for several months because the temps are pretty much 40 and below from now until late March (may have a few warmer days, but then the roads will more likely than not have sand or salt on them) unless I bought a 2nd set of all season tires for my brand new car-----yea, my wife is going to go for that....and for storing the summer only tires in the cellar while I try to find a buyer.
So, I am stuck with my 427 with 6,500 miles on it.......plan now is to either make the 427 my last corvette, or possibly wait 4-5 years and see about a garage queen ZO6. But in all honesty, the whole idea of GM selling their top of the line sports car with tires of limited use for us up North just makes me wonder if I even want another GM car....corvette or anything else....it is a head scratcher.............
In essence, I would be buying a car that I couldn't even test drive for several months because the temps are pretty much 40 and below from now until late March (may have a few warmer days, but then the roads will more likely than not have sand or salt on them) unless I bought a 2nd set of all season tires for my brand new car-----yea, my wife is going to go for that....and for storing the summer only tires in the cellar while I try to find a buyer.
So, I am stuck with my 427 with 6,500 miles on it.......plan now is to either make the 427 my last corvette, or possibly wait 4-5 years and see about a garage queen ZO6. But in all honesty, the whole idea of GM selling their top of the line sports car with tires of limited use for us up North just makes me wonder if I even want another GM car....corvette or anything else....it is a head scratcher.............
11-19-2014, 02:12 PM
#8
Great Post Yellow427!
Honestly this whole situation does not affect me in any way but it is wrong. These cars ought to have a disclaimer notice provided when you order them that clearly states the issue and then red tags attached to the wheels upon delivery that further cautions the buyer about the potential of a problem either in their environment or at the factory when it was manufactured.
When you consider that according to GM's definition, every car delivered anywhere in the USA, could be affected by this issue, simply because they are produced and stored in a factory where the temperature is often below 20F, this is a travesty in every sense.
Now, you asked what is to be done? Simple.....people have to stop being financially MACHO and start a grass root campaign, on a forum like this, to protest. I can assure you that if 500 people protested via a factual and tasteful post, both Michelin and GM would solve the problem. Both are responsible manufactures and they would make a change.
Again, it really does not affect me but....it is still not right and someone should at least expect GM to comment concerning the potential to receive damaged tires through no fault of their own. Since this is not disclosed upon ordering or receipt of an in stock car, I think that there is significant liability to both Michelin and GM.
I am not bitter, but I would like to see a solution. Why not offer an all season alternative or provide the information so that a potential buyer can make an informed decision.
Honestly this whole situation does not affect me in any way but it is wrong. These cars ought to have a disclaimer notice provided when you order them that clearly states the issue and then red tags attached to the wheels upon delivery that further cautions the buyer about the potential of a problem either in their environment or at the factory when it was manufactured.
When you consider that according to GM's definition, every car delivered anywhere in the USA, could be affected by this issue, simply because they are produced and stored in a factory where the temperature is often below 20F, this is a travesty in every sense.
Now, you asked what is to be done? Simple.....people have to stop being financially MACHO and start a grass root campaign, on a forum like this, to protest. I can assure you that if 500 people protested via a factual and tasteful post, both Michelin and GM would solve the problem. Both are responsible manufactures and they would make a change.
Again, it really does not affect me but....it is still not right and someone should at least expect GM to comment concerning the potential to receive damaged tires through no fault of their own. Since this is not disclosed upon ordering or receipt of an in stock car, I think that there is significant liability to both Michelin and GM.
I am not bitter, but I would like to see a solution. Why not offer an all season alternative or provide the information so that a potential buyer can make an informed decision.
11-19-2014, 02:20 PM
#9
Drifting
Great Post Yellow427!
Honestly this whole situation does not affect me in any way but it is wrong. These cars ought to have a disclaimer notice provided when you order them that clearly states the issue and then red tags attached to the wheels upon delivery that further cautions the buyer about the potential of a problem either in their environment or at the factory when it was manufactured.
When you consider that according to GM's definition, every car delivered anywhere in the USA, could be affected by this issue, simply because they are produced and stored in a factory where the temperature is often below 20F, this is a travesty in every sense.
Now, you asked what is to be done? Simple.....people have to stop being financially MACHO and start a grass root campaign, on a forum like this, to protest. I can assure you that if 500 people protested via a factual and tasteful post, both Michelin and GM would solve the problem. Both are responsible manufactures and they would make a change.
Again, it really does not affect me but....it is still not right and someone should at least expect GM to comment concerning the potential to receive damaged tires through no fault of their own. Since this is not disclosed upon ordering or receipt of an in stock car, I think that there is significant liability to both Michelin and GM.
I am not bitter, but I would like to see a solution. Why not offer an all season alternative or provide the information so that a potential buyer can make an informed decision.
Honestly this whole situation does not affect me in any way but it is wrong. These cars ought to have a disclaimer notice provided when you order them that clearly states the issue and then red tags attached to the wheels upon delivery that further cautions the buyer about the potential of a problem either in their environment or at the factory when it was manufactured.
When you consider that according to GM's definition, every car delivered anywhere in the USA, could be affected by this issue, simply because they are produced and stored in a factory where the temperature is often below 20F, this is a travesty in every sense.
Now, you asked what is to be done? Simple.....people have to stop being financially MACHO and start a grass root campaign, on a forum like this, to protest. I can assure you that if 500 people protested via a factual and tasteful post, both Michelin and GM would solve the problem. Both are responsible manufactures and they would make a change.
Again, it really does not affect me but....it is still not right and someone should at least expect GM to comment concerning the potential to receive damaged tires through no fault of their own. Since this is not disclosed upon ordering or receipt of an in stock car, I think that there is significant liability to both Michelin and GM.
I am not bitter, but I would like to see a solution. Why not offer an all season alternative or provide the information so that a potential buyer can make an informed decision.
11-19-2014, 02:57 PM
#11
Drifting
Have to admit, this whole tire issue sucks. Do you have to drive the car in temps in the 20's in order to have these cracks appear ?
I have a Z51 and now I am planning to park it for the winter on a carpet in my unheated garage. Owned a Corvette since 1980 and never had to do this.
I have a Z51 and now I am planning to park it for the winter on a carpet in my unheated garage. Owned a Corvette since 1980 and never had to do this.
11-19-2014, 03:03 PM
#12
Safety Car
I agree with you 1000%. What can we do about it.............for me this was the stumbling block as to why I didn't buy a C7 last week------all the negotiations were finalized and then I learned about the tires.
In essence, I would be buying a car that I couldn't even test drive for several months because the temps are pretty much 40 and below from now until late March (may have a few warmer days, but then the roads will more likely than not have sand or salt on them) unless I bought a 2nd set of all season tires for my brand new car-----yea, my wife is going to go for that....and for storing the summer only tires in the cellar while I try to find a buyer.
So, I am stuck with my 427 with 6,500 miles on it.......plan now is to either make the 427 my last corvette, or possibly wait 4-5 years and see about a garage queen ZO6. But in all honesty, the whole idea of GM selling their top of the line sports car with tires of limited use for us up North just makes me wonder if I even want another GM car....corvette or anything else....it is a head scratcher.............
In essence, I would be buying a car that I couldn't even test drive for several months because the temps are pretty much 40 and below from now until late March (may have a few warmer days, but then the roads will more likely than not have sand or salt on them) unless I bought a 2nd set of all season tires for my brand new car-----yea, my wife is going to go for that....and for storing the summer only tires in the cellar while I try to find a buyer.
So, I am stuck with my 427 with 6,500 miles on it.......plan now is to either make the 427 my last corvette, or possibly wait 4-5 years and see about a garage queen ZO6. But in all honesty, the whole idea of GM selling their top of the line sports car with tires of limited use for us up North just makes me wonder if I even want another GM car....corvette or anything else....it is a head scratcher.............
FWIW - I drove my 427 today and it was 35 F when I left the house. And all the instances of tire cracking I have read about were temps well below 20F, like for instance, -20 something in Calgary AB or Minneapolis.
Last edited by fdxpilot; 11-19-2014 at 03:15 PM.
11-19-2014, 03:15 PM
#13
Drifting
Hmmm! My 427, while not having any mention of cracking below 20 F, has the same warning about using winter or all season tires for extended driving in temperatures below 40 F. So I guess you are really SOL.
FWIW - I drove my 427 today and it was 35 F when I left the house.
FWIW - I drove my 427 today and it was 35 F when I left the house.
11-19-2014, 04:22 PM
#14
Race Director
Another 427 owner emailed me and said our OEM tires are summer only tires too, but I have never read or heard anything about them cracking or deteriorating in the cold. I had my car out yesterday too, in the 30's (I think it was lo 30's with the wind chill; and will do so again Friday). Last winter I had it out in the single digits a few times---hope to do so again this winter----and yes the traction is terrible in the cold. But, I don't go crazy on the turns, etc.---will boot it going straight sometimes----3 of my friends with C7's said they couldn't drive their cars in the cold as it was too dangerous with the lack of traction and jumping---2 put on all season tires and now drive in the winter with me; and 3rd put his away for the winter.
This is a sports car with appropriate tires, low slung/high power cars with WIDE tires are just NOT the proper transportation device in very cold climates.
All season tires won't have the cold traction issue of a summer tire, they also won't have THE traction of summer tire when it warms up. All season tires by their very nature are "slave to many, master to none"
Here are the tires offered for your car from Tire Rack (including the OEM). You will note that they are all "summer" tires.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...=58165&tab=All
Jimmy
Last edited by jimmyb; 11-19-2014 at 04:43 PM.
11-19-2014, 04:31 PM
#15
Race Director
Have to admit, this whole tire issue sucks. Do you have to drive the car in temps in the 20's in order to have these cracks appear ?
I have a Z51 and now I am planning to park it for the winter on a carpet in my unheated garage. Owned a Corvette since 1980 and never had to do this.
I have a Z51 and now I am planning to park it for the winter on a carpet in my unheated garage. Owned a Corvette since 1980 and never had to do this.
The GREAT handling all season tire has not been made yet and probably never will. Pick your poison.
Jimmy
Last edited by jimmyb; 11-19-2014 at 04:41 PM.
11-19-2014, 04:42 PM
#16
Drifting
I agree with you 1000%. What can we do about it.............for me this was the stumbling block as to why I didn't buy a C7 last week------all the negotiations were finalized and then I learned about the tires.
In essence, I would be buying a car that I couldn't even test drive for several months because the temps are pretty much 40 and below from now until late March (may have a few warmer days, but then the roads will more likely than not have sand or salt on them) unless I bought a 2nd set of all season tires for my brand new car-----yea, my wife is going to go for that....and for storing the summer only tires in the cellar while I try to find a buyer.
So, I am stuck with my 427 with 6,500 miles on it.......plan now is to either make the 427 my last corvette, or possibly wait 4-5 years and see about a garage queen ZO6. But in all honesty, the whole idea of GM selling their top of the line sports car with tires of limited use for us up North just makes me wonder if I even want another GM car....corvette or anything else....it is a head scratcher.............
In essence, I would be buying a car that I couldn't even test drive for several months because the temps are pretty much 40 and below from now until late March (may have a few warmer days, but then the roads will more likely than not have sand or salt on them) unless I bought a 2nd set of all season tires for my brand new car-----yea, my wife is going to go for that....and for storing the summer only tires in the cellar while I try to find a buyer.
So, I am stuck with my 427 with 6,500 miles on it.......plan now is to either make the 427 my last corvette, or possibly wait 4-5 years and see about a garage queen ZO6. But in all honesty, the whole idea of GM selling their top of the line sports car with tires of limited use for us up North just makes me wonder if I even want another GM car....corvette or anything else....it is a head scratcher.............
11-19-2014, 05:09 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
The tires on your 427 (I assume you have the OEM's) are summer tires also and carry the exact same warnings as any other summer tire. Summer tires, regardless of maker, are made for best traction in warm conditions, I have seen ultra performance Goodyears crack in cold weather as well. I honestly don't know what to say about your friends....
This is a sports car with appropriate tires, low slung/high power cars with WIDE tires are just NOT the proper transportation device in very cold climates.
All season tires won't have the cold traction issue of a summer tire, they also won't have THE traction of summer tire when it warms up. All season tires by their very nature are "slave to many, master to none"
Here are the tires offered for your car from Tire Rack (including the OEM). You will note that they are all "summer" tires.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...=58165&tab=All
Jimmy
This is a sports car with appropriate tires, low slung/high power cars with WIDE tires are just NOT the proper transportation device in very cold climates.
All season tires won't have the cold traction issue of a summer tire, they also won't have THE traction of summer tire when it warms up. All season tires by their very nature are "slave to many, master to none"
Here are the tires offered for your car from Tire Rack (including the OEM). You will note that they are all "summer" tires.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...=58165&tab=All
Jimmy
Amazing how few people know this or refuse to believe it.
11-19-2014, 05:24 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
The 427 has Michelin PS2 tires and they are virtually the same tire that is on the C7. No factory vette tire is good for less than 40 degree driving. My 427 sat in the winter unheated garage for two winters and the tires never cracked. If my C7 tires crack and make the car useless, Im sure the warranty will cover the tire. Just don't drive on these tires in 40 degree weather. Get all season ones if you intend to drive in in cold weather.
Nothing has changed hear guys.
Nothing has changed hear guys.
11-19-2014, 05:37 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
The 427 has Michelin PS2 tires and they are virtually the same tire that is on the C7. No factory vette tire is good for less than 40 degree driving. My 427 sat in the winter unheated garage for two winters and the tires never cracked. If my C7 tires crack and make the car useless, Im sure the warranty will cover the tire. Just don't drive on these tires in 40 degree weather. Get all season ones if you intend to drive in in cold weather.
Nothing has changed hear guys.
Nothing has changed hear guys.
