11B250

So I'd like to get some headers for my car. I wouldn't mind some midlength ARH tubes on it for the enriched sound and not having to tune which I know voids warranty (unless there is a reversible one that cant be seen)

I'm well aware of the Magnuson-Moss act which says a vehicle warranty can't be voided unless the item is directly related to the cause for failure. I've had many people tell me you'd be protected under this.

But if you think like A GM lawyer, the header is directly hooked to the vehicle's engine heads and it controls output of exhaust from the engine valves.if your engine decided to take a crap, they can articulate that the vehicle dropped a valve (or piston cracked, or connecting rod broke, or something else) because it had an aftermarket exhaust manifold which wasn't designed for proper operation of this vehicle. Additionally the engine was also not designed for the additional output with a fuel enriched condition that the car isn't tuned for.

Hopefully you guys can see where I'm coming from and my worry. Would like to know if anyone has ever had to file warranty claim for the engine or power train with bolt on mods like this. They might even deny your transmission warranty and say the transmission wasnt designed to handle the extra horsepower from the engine with the bolt ons.

I wanted to start a discussion and see everyone's input on this matter. hopefully it will be a decent convo. I'm very curious.

Ernest_T

I've only been on the forum a short while, but this has been covered several times since I've been here. There are things that will definitely void the warranty, some things that won't void the warranty and some things that "might" make it hard to get a repair done under warranty.

It's this gray area that is problematic. I think the bottom line is you won't know until you modify the car, need a warranty repair, have it denied and go to court.

BTW, there is a thread in the performance section which purports to have a definitive list of what does and does not void the warranty. Might want to check it out. I have no idea what words would work for a search without returning thousands of hits.

WilliamCall

I put ARH headers on my C5 (and love them), but, the car will run rich. I had to have the car tuned in order to get a leaner fuel/air ratio. Good luck with the mod. I'll be following this thread.

11B250

I've been searching about this after I posted it. This is a good read from a post. it pretty much says warranty is void if you install things that increase hp and tq which will cause decreased durability. If that's the case, anything (even cold air intake) that gives you extra power will void your powertrain.

I can't post a link from my phone for some reason, but I will. It was a good read.

The reason I ask is because I mentioned this in a vendor thread for some ARH headers and was told the Magnuson act. I didn't want to argue about it on his vendor thread, taking business away.

Kracka

As soon as you begin modifying your vehicle warranty coverage becomes questionable. People can talk about X mod not voiding your warranty, but realistically that is at the dealership's and regional rep's discretion. The more extreme a modification, and the more modifications you make, the more likely they are to affect your warranty if an issue were to arise. For this reason, I decided that I am personally going to retain the stock primary cats and near-stock appearance by doing ported/coated stock exhaust manifolds instead of tubular headers. I also chose a catless X-pipe that has a somewhat stock-like appearance. I've also decided that any mods I do must be compatible with the stock tune so I can flash back to stock for trips to the dealership. Everyone will have differing opinions, but this is the path I decided to take after owning and modifying numerous sports cars from various manufacturers while still covered under a factory warranty and never having a claim denied.

11B250

I feel the same way and probably won't t touch it. this car isn't like my c5 where I could fix most things myself or if worst happened, an engine swap woulda been slightly more affordable. I cant imagine how complicated this car is.

I think the times of modding your car are over for me. I even plan on extended warranty because this car is way too complicated for me. I only have extensive experience from last Gen LT1 (which I haven't touched in 10 years) and little on my ls6.

Indy-hp

The only 100% safe route is to wait to do performance mods until the warranty runs out.

rothchilds

Modifying the car can cause loss of warranty to the modified portion, i.e. adding headers affects the power train warranty. it does not void the entire bumper to bumper warranty, i.e. adding headers will not allow a dealer to deny fixing a broken touchscreen.

The modufied part has to be reasonably concluded that it affected the broken part. I.e. headers cannot cause your touchscreen to go out. However lets say you lose a gear in your transmission. As headers are part of that daisy chain, your claim could be denied.

A lot of people quote the magnuson-moss act. It was created to basically address the above scenario, and to prevent a dealer from voiding any warranty if a non oem part was used in a repair, unless that substandard part was directly responsible for causing the failure.


Mod at you discrection/risk, unless you have a good rep with your dealer.

11B250

Agree 100%

Alot of people misquote Magnuson-Moss act. They think putting headers on will only affect things related to it like exhaust leak from the exhaust etc. they don't realize it affects the entire powertrain like your valvetrain, timing chain, gears, clutches etc... vendors usually are the ones who misquote it.

HighTeq

After 3 years (I won't hit it with mileage) I'll start doing some performance mods. Then it will be like a whole new car again. I'll hold onto it until the 2nd year of the C8's.

This strategy worked with my C6.

EcoBrick Bob

The key to aftermarket tuning is to get a second ECM and keep your stock one for dealer trips. My son had tuned his G8 GT via a second ECM, and had a RotoFab CAI. About a week before his 5 yr engine warranty expired, his DOD had issues. He switched back to stock ECM, but went to the dealer with the custom CAI. No issues and he had everything fixed for free.

I had issues with my Ford Flex Twin Turbo. Put everything back to stock including putting the stock tune back into my ECM. Ford determined that the ECM had been flashed over 100 times ( well... I did get it into the 12's via methanol spray an lots of tunes.) They also could tell that the last time the ECM was flashed was about 12 miles before.( of course I did... had to make it stock!!!) So the long block replacement was on me!! (only $8,400.00) I didn't re-tune for a year. New engine now has 50K on it and works great. LEARNED SEVERAL LESSONS... #1. Big Brother can't be beat... #2 If you play, you gotta be able to pay. & #3. Too much spray makes your pistons unhappy.

While anything is theoretically possible, a computer's bios records flashes, and according to my oldest son, who builds & repairs computers for a living, you can't change the bios info, only settings. Our ECM are computers.....

As for headers or other major mods, you probably can get by, if your issues aren't catastrophic, or caused by a defective part, but if that engine comes out, the headers are going to be very visible to a GM adjuster. If your mods occur after, say, 10,000 mi and don't add excessive amounts of HP, Torque, and strain on the components, you probably will never need to see the dealer for repairs. Your gamble. (See lessons #1 & 2.)
While DOD has been used by GM for quite a few years now, I still think it is the weak link over time.

Good Luck!

HighTeq

Replacing the ECM with a stock one before service, wouldn't it show lack of miles?

OLD_GOAT

Yes the Magnuson-Moss act is out there for use, however it may take a lawyer and court visits to get it invoked, and this equates to spending a lot of money. GM has an army of lawyers and I don't see them rolling over for any one customer.

I've modded a 2005 GTO, 2009 G8 GXP, and a 2013 Mustang GT and never had any problems. The mods were CAI, long tube headers, and on the Pontiacs a 3200 torque converter plus the dyno tune. I knew all along if any part of the drivetrain crapped out, it was on me and it was a gamble I was willing to take.

From many years on different car forums I've come to the belief that CAI is OK as are the mufflers, however anything more can lead to difficulties. However I admit to being conservative on this belief.

Just know that because you find a dealership that if mod friendly, if something breaks and it moves up the GM ladder, the person above them may not be as friendly.

Lastly I have <800 miles on my new car and I'm steadily doing googles on the best price for ARH long tubes with high flow cats. So I know exactly where you guys are coming from.

C7-Beast

People think MM will protect them. The basic issue is if the dealer claims a mod is the cause of an issue, it's then up to you to retain council and prove that it was not. This is an expensive proposition and GM has hundreds if not thousands of lawyers either in house or on retainer.

That being said, if you tune your car, you basically throw away the power train warranty. Some dealers won't care for little things as GM reimburses them anyway. The main issue I see is if you blow up the motor or any other MAJOR drive line component. The dealer has NO CHOICE but to pull the ECM data and send to GM before GM will authorize a repair. Even the most mod-friendly dealer will have his hands tied in this situation.

I know people that will pull the stock ECM and purchase another one to have tuned. I could never do this as I feel it is unethical (not judging anyone). If I tune my car, I accept the fact that if I blow my motor after a tune, GM will not assist.

There are a couple tuners that are sponsors here that take way too many chances with ECM programming just to hit a magic number. That makes the customer feel all "Warm and Fuzzy" until 6 months later when the engine pops and the tuner says "Not my problem". I have witnessed this in 2 cases.

All that said, I had my 08 modified with CAI, LT headers, performance cats, and a tune. I never had any issues and I knew the tuner would stand behind any issues with the tune that might lead to an engine failure. Not saying that vendors would pay for a new motor but I know they would assist because I have seen them do it before.

Bottom line, GM can never void your entire warranty unless your car has a branded title (salvage, flood etc). A window motor going bad has nothing to do with tuning a car. A bad seat track has nothing to do with a tune. A rod knock is another story. In that case be prepared to pay for your own repair as GM will deny the claim. 100% guaranteed.

Corvette ED

Why would anybody want to ruin a new Corvette with headers? Do you really think the car is going to go faster?

11B250

No, it's actually going to go slower. Maybe backwards?

Ernest_T

How does it "ruin" the car? I'm already planning heads, cam, header and intake upgrades. Some of us think it improves the car and makes it what we want to drive. Luckily for you, we usually only do it to our cars and are unlikely to break into your garage and "ruin" your C7!

C7-Beast

There is no thinking involved. Long tube headers, high flow cats WILL make the car faster. To what degree depends on if you tune but you can expect 20+ extra HP at a minimum even without a tune.

Also, stainless steel long tubes look much better under the hood than the factory exhaust manifolds. LT's are also lighter than iron manifolds. Less weight equals more power.

11B250

thats another thing that has me baffled. why wouldn't they use SS manifolds on these cars? those cast iron ones look horrible once they rust which takes a week after the vehicle is assembled. it's such an eye sore.

C7-Beast

One word. Emissions. Long tube headers are actually illegal for use on any public road in the US. They move the cats further back into the exhaust stream and the cats don't get as hot so I assume its more polluting.

In states like NJ or especially CA you will fail your inspection/emissions test. Blame CAFE standards.

If you live outside the really tough States, most shops/dealers will overlook LT's as long as the car is not throwing codes via the CEL.