In-depth Spring Mountain review (long with pics and video)
01-09-2016, 02:29 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
In-depth Spring Mountain review (long with pics and video)
I finally attended the Ron Fellows Corvette owner school at Spring Mountain (November 24-25, 2015) and it was an absolute blast! Wow, all I can say is as a C7 owner paying $1,000 for this course is a steal. Thank-you GM for offering this program to your customers. After doing it I would say that for most people paying full price would be completely worth it. I will definitely be paying for Level 2 sometime in the near future.
Spring Mountain has a great track, (actually 3 tracks... many more if you count the different configurations they can make out of those 3 main layouts), excellent instructors and first class facilities.
This is only a Level 1 course but even with a lot of motorsport experience under my belt from some car racing many years ago, a ton of serious kart racing and current autocrossing, I still picked up useful knowledge and was a fair amount faster and definitely smoother at the end of day 2 than I was at the start.
During my 2 days there it seemed like most of the owners attending this school didn't have much, if any, track experience, so if you happen to be someone that does have previous track or autocross experience and are looking to go as fast as your talent will allow, there could be times that you find it a little frustrating. They are actively watching everyone and do try their best to match you with other drivers with similar skill levels and speed. But if you feel you're being held back just ask to be put with faster drivers and they will accommodate you. I asked for this early on and had a conversation with Rick Malone the head guy at the school who assured me that they were working on it and by day two I would be happy.
Day 2 dawned and I, in my A8 Stingray, was grouped with 3 Z06s. I was told that this was the fast group and that my driving would dictate whether or not I remained there. They shuffled the deck in that group a few times throughout the day but I managed to stay the entire time. None of those initial 3 Z06s remained at the end of the day. There were 3 Stingrays and another Z06 that worked his way in for the last run of the day.
In my class there were a lot of Z06s, probably close to half the class, and the transmission split was probably around half and half as well. I have a 2015 Z51 with the A8 automatic so they put me in the same. I could have chosen to do the school in a Manual 7 but after hearing about problems with tracking the auto I wanted to test the A8 capability on track. We were told to always run the auto trans in manual mode and except for a few refused down shifts and a few slightly delayed shifts I was pleasantly surprised at how well it handled the track, but I did do this in November when temps were not a problem.
With the extra 200HP the Z06s could pull me on the straights, but I was often able do a good enough job of apexing the turns to get a better launch off the corners to minimize that extra straight line speed. I would usually catch them under braking and even with 3 inches less rubber on the road most of the time I was carrying more speed through the corners. A couple of the Z06 guys were shaking there heads wondering how a Stingray was able to pull such gaps on them. One guy was telling me he was using every bit of the extra horsepower he could use on the straights trying to keep me in sight but just couldn't hang on.
They run two schools at the same time on separate tracks. Within each school they divide you into two groups. One group on track while the other group is in the classroom. The group on track are usually divided into three groups with one instructor leading 3 or 4 cars. Those 3 or 4 cars trade off following directly behind the instructor. You dictate the pace when you are directly behind the instructor, the instructor will simply go as fast as you can keep up. The rest of the time when you are following another student you were suppose to give them a buffer of about 6-7 cars lengths, I was often finding myself encroaching on that suggested buffer as the car in front would surprise me with being slower than expected through braking zones or corners. The track did get a bit crowded for our group as we caught some slower cars / groups and had to slow our pace to let them pull out a gap again or sometimes we were allowed to pass the slower group but we all had to slow way down to pass them at a safe speed.
We stayed on one track the whole time. Our class was on the middle track (the 2.2 mile North/South track) and it was a very enjoyable track. Very tight and technical in some spots and more open and sweeping in other areas with a lot of variety in the type of corners with different entry speeds and amount of braking pressure required. On the back straight we hit between 120 - 123 MPH on hot laps, although in the beginning I was pulling large gaps out from the cars behind me and often the instructor slowed me down on that straight to pack the group back up again. By the end of the second day I was grouped with the fastest drivers in the class and was able to get a couple of laps where the instructor was going pretty hard for the entire hot lap.
Like I mentioned before, you can pretty much go as fast as your ability will allow. Although in the two day school that GM sponsors for C7 owners you will only do lead/follow laps where the instructor was out front, but you set the pace with how close you were to them. Basically they would start pulling away from you a bit and then if you got faster and closed in they would go even faster, so if you could stick to their bumper they kept increasing the pace. All the instructors at Spring Mountain can drive looking in the rear view mirror and coaching us via a 2-way radio while still negotiating the twisty challenging race course to perfection.
The normal three day Level 1 school has "open lapping" on day 3 where you are out on the track on your own but they don't offer the third day with the GM sponsored owner school anymore... I tried to add that on but was told it was no longer available, but apparently if you take the 2 day Level 2 course you can add the 3rd day of Level 1 and do that before as a refresher... definitely looking forward to that!
One of the best parts of the school was the "demo" session about half way through on Day 2. We all hopped in cars with an instructor driving and went for a ride... it gave you an idea of what was possible. These instructors are very good, fast and amazingly smooth, my biggest take-away was that the speed seemed to come from that smoothness, the car never seemed to be unsettled. All the transitions from deceleration through turn in to the apex and back to acceleration and unwinding out of the corners were seamless. Those kinds of laps became the goal. The demo session was on the same track we were on and during my session they were setting lap times in the 1:45 second range. My best time behind an instructor was a 1:50.5 on my second to last run, but we only got one hot lap where you could set a decent time before we would have to slow and rotate and allow the next driver to follow the instructor. If I could have strung a few hot laps together and worked into a good rhythm I think I could have dropped a couple seconds off of that quite easily. Having said that, keep in mind the instructors apparently are only allowed to drive these demo sessions at approx. 70-80% of their ability... it was impressive. This car is so capable on the racetrack it's intoxicating. Open lapping sessions would really be something as you gradually work up to finding the limits and gain confidence in each sector of the track.
Here's the video of my last session...
Our final group of four consisted of Alfred (silver Stingray starting behind the instructor), then Jason (red Stingray in front of me), myself and Bryan in a Z06 (who got the last turn behind the instructor). Near the end (approx. 16:30) our instructor Blake says on the radio that it has been a long time since he has seen a group this quick in a Level 1 class and says we were easily performing at Level 2 pace and making him hustle. During my run behind Blake (starting at 07:50) I start pushing pretty hard on the second lap and manage to force him into a couple of little slides in turn two (at approx. 10:30) which brought a little smile to my face. If I could have gotten a time out of that lap instead of having to pull over to rotate to the next driver I think it would have been well down into the higher 1:40's.
BTW, remember to bring a 32 GB (max.) SD card for the PDR, and make sure it is a class 10.
When you are not on the track they are either teaching you some racing concepts (looking ahead, apexing, braking, oversteer/understeer). If you know this stuff a lot of it could be a bit boring, but like I said most drivers in this Level 1 course don't know a lot about these concepts. I thought of it as a "refresher" and tried to find small tid bits of info that I could work on while out on track. For me, although it was not a new concept, getting to put into practice "throttle steering" and to start to master that in a 3,400 pound car (instead of a 400 pound super kart) was my "light bulb" moment.
In other classes they are actually showing you features of the car. If you are like me, you already know most of this stuff, but it seemed some others were quite interested in finding out about some of the systems that were present on their cars. I did learn a couple of small things so it was certainly worth it to pay attention. One very good explanation of the multiple levels of traction control and active handling did help clarify some things about that system for me.
The curriculum was excellent for a Level 1 course. They make sure you learn about car control, balance and vision before you ever hit the track. Before actually driving the track on Day 1 they put you through some preliminary drills... Shifting, Braking, ABS braking in the wet, Oval, Figure eight on a wet track, etc.
If you have never tracked your car this is an awesome school to start with. The tools they teach you are extremely valuable on the racetrack and much of it will transfer to the road to make you a better driver.
Even if you have some track experience by the end of Day 2 you will still have had a great time, guaranteed.
A few more things to mention...
Staying in a condo onsite is perfect! Just walk to your room after a long day on the track (or after a drink at the bar in the club house with some new friends) and wake up and drive! The bar also serves food in the evening, a limited menu but we ate there one of the days and it was quite good. The best dining in town was definitely at the winery.
Being in the condo also meant that my wife (after doing a ride-along with an instructor once) could sit on our balcony drinking coffee (or wine) and watch me drive in comfort. We had an end unit and turn two of our track went right around that corner of our building. She got some good photos and video from her point and shoot camera from there.
The food served during the course was good, and enough choice that all but the most picky of eaters would be satisfied (if you have special dietary restrictions I think they will accommodate you if you let them know in advance). They have a breakfast and lunch buffet, I think the lunch provided is included in the course fee and breakfast is a very reasonable amount added on. Wives are welcome at breakfast and lunch for a small fee, and they are also welcome to attend all the class room sessions as well as getting to do ride-alongs with the instructors when you are out on course.
Everything about the school is top notch, from the entire facility to the instructors and administration people, and the beautiful setting it was all great.
Especially the people, from Rick Malone, J.J., Blake and all the rest of the amazing instructors to Melinda and all the other sales and admin staff and even security, I have to say that it was the people who really MADE IT. Everyone was so personable and helpful, like they all loved their jobs.
Not only were the instructors knowledgeable and able to teach you the skills but they did so with such enthusiasm. They all made it their mission to make you a better driver and to ensure that you had a good time doing it.
A big thank-you to everyone at Spring Mountain!
For $1000, just do it!
You can find a few pics here...
https://flic.kr/p/Cq4KUK
Spring Mountain has a great track, (actually 3 tracks... many more if you count the different configurations they can make out of those 3 main layouts), excellent instructors and first class facilities.
This is only a Level 1 course but even with a lot of motorsport experience under my belt from some car racing many years ago, a ton of serious kart racing and current autocrossing, I still picked up useful knowledge and was a fair amount faster and definitely smoother at the end of day 2 than I was at the start.
During my 2 days there it seemed like most of the owners attending this school didn't have much, if any, track experience, so if you happen to be someone that does have previous track or autocross experience and are looking to go as fast as your talent will allow, there could be times that you find it a little frustrating. They are actively watching everyone and do try their best to match you with other drivers with similar skill levels and speed. But if you feel you're being held back just ask to be put with faster drivers and they will accommodate you. I asked for this early on and had a conversation with Rick Malone the head guy at the school who assured me that they were working on it and by day two I would be happy.
Day 2 dawned and I, in my A8 Stingray, was grouped with 3 Z06s. I was told that this was the fast group and that my driving would dictate whether or not I remained there. They shuffled the deck in that group a few times throughout the day but I managed to stay the entire time. None of those initial 3 Z06s remained at the end of the day. There were 3 Stingrays and another Z06 that worked his way in for the last run of the day.
In my class there were a lot of Z06s, probably close to half the class, and the transmission split was probably around half and half as well. I have a 2015 Z51 with the A8 automatic so they put me in the same. I could have chosen to do the school in a Manual 7 but after hearing about problems with tracking the auto I wanted to test the A8 capability on track. We were told to always run the auto trans in manual mode and except for a few refused down shifts and a few slightly delayed shifts I was pleasantly surprised at how well it handled the track, but I did do this in November when temps were not a problem.
With the extra 200HP the Z06s could pull me on the straights, but I was often able do a good enough job of apexing the turns to get a better launch off the corners to minimize that extra straight line speed. I would usually catch them under braking and even with 3 inches less rubber on the road most of the time I was carrying more speed through the corners. A couple of the Z06 guys were shaking there heads wondering how a Stingray was able to pull such gaps on them. One guy was telling me he was using every bit of the extra horsepower he could use on the straights trying to keep me in sight but just couldn't hang on.
They run two schools at the same time on separate tracks. Within each school they divide you into two groups. One group on track while the other group is in the classroom. The group on track are usually divided into three groups with one instructor leading 3 or 4 cars. Those 3 or 4 cars trade off following directly behind the instructor. You dictate the pace when you are directly behind the instructor, the instructor will simply go as fast as you can keep up. The rest of the time when you are following another student you were suppose to give them a buffer of about 6-7 cars lengths, I was often finding myself encroaching on that suggested buffer as the car in front would surprise me with being slower than expected through braking zones or corners. The track did get a bit crowded for our group as we caught some slower cars / groups and had to slow our pace to let them pull out a gap again or sometimes we were allowed to pass the slower group but we all had to slow way down to pass them at a safe speed.
We stayed on one track the whole time. Our class was on the middle track (the 2.2 mile North/South track) and it was a very enjoyable track. Very tight and technical in some spots and more open and sweeping in other areas with a lot of variety in the type of corners with different entry speeds and amount of braking pressure required. On the back straight we hit between 120 - 123 MPH on hot laps, although in the beginning I was pulling large gaps out from the cars behind me and often the instructor slowed me down on that straight to pack the group back up again. By the end of the second day I was grouped with the fastest drivers in the class and was able to get a couple of laps where the instructor was going pretty hard for the entire hot lap.
Like I mentioned before, you can pretty much go as fast as your ability will allow. Although in the two day school that GM sponsors for C7 owners you will only do lead/follow laps where the instructor was out front, but you set the pace with how close you were to them. Basically they would start pulling away from you a bit and then if you got faster and closed in they would go even faster, so if you could stick to their bumper they kept increasing the pace. All the instructors at Spring Mountain can drive looking in the rear view mirror and coaching us via a 2-way radio while still negotiating the twisty challenging race course to perfection.
The normal three day Level 1 school has "open lapping" on day 3 where you are out on the track on your own but they don't offer the third day with the GM sponsored owner school anymore... I tried to add that on but was told it was no longer available, but apparently if you take the 2 day Level 2 course you can add the 3rd day of Level 1 and do that before as a refresher... definitely looking forward to that!
One of the best parts of the school was the "demo" session about half way through on Day 2. We all hopped in cars with an instructor driving and went for a ride... it gave you an idea of what was possible. These instructors are very good, fast and amazingly smooth, my biggest take-away was that the speed seemed to come from that smoothness, the car never seemed to be unsettled. All the transitions from deceleration through turn in to the apex and back to acceleration and unwinding out of the corners were seamless. Those kinds of laps became the goal. The demo session was on the same track we were on and during my session they were setting lap times in the 1:45 second range. My best time behind an instructor was a 1:50.5 on my second to last run, but we only got one hot lap where you could set a decent time before we would have to slow and rotate and allow the next driver to follow the instructor. If I could have strung a few hot laps together and worked into a good rhythm I think I could have dropped a couple seconds off of that quite easily. Having said that, keep in mind the instructors apparently are only allowed to drive these demo sessions at approx. 70-80% of their ability... it was impressive. This car is so capable on the racetrack it's intoxicating. Open lapping sessions would really be something as you gradually work up to finding the limits and gain confidence in each sector of the track.
Here's the video of my last session...
Our final group of four consisted of Alfred (silver Stingray starting behind the instructor), then Jason (red Stingray in front of me), myself and Bryan in a Z06 (who got the last turn behind the instructor). Near the end (approx. 16:30) our instructor Blake says on the radio that it has been a long time since he has seen a group this quick in a Level 1 class and says we were easily performing at Level 2 pace and making him hustle. During my run behind Blake (starting at 07:50) I start pushing pretty hard on the second lap and manage to force him into a couple of little slides in turn two (at approx. 10:30) which brought a little smile to my face. If I could have gotten a time out of that lap instead of having to pull over to rotate to the next driver I think it would have been well down into the higher 1:40's.
BTW, remember to bring a 32 GB (max.) SD card for the PDR, and make sure it is a class 10.
When you are not on the track they are either teaching you some racing concepts (looking ahead, apexing, braking, oversteer/understeer). If you know this stuff a lot of it could be a bit boring, but like I said most drivers in this Level 1 course don't know a lot about these concepts. I thought of it as a "refresher" and tried to find small tid bits of info that I could work on while out on track. For me, although it was not a new concept, getting to put into practice "throttle steering" and to start to master that in a 3,400 pound car (instead of a 400 pound super kart) was my "light bulb" moment.
In other classes they are actually showing you features of the car. If you are like me, you already know most of this stuff, but it seemed some others were quite interested in finding out about some of the systems that were present on their cars. I did learn a couple of small things so it was certainly worth it to pay attention. One very good explanation of the multiple levels of traction control and active handling did help clarify some things about that system for me.
The curriculum was excellent for a Level 1 course. They make sure you learn about car control, balance and vision before you ever hit the track. Before actually driving the track on Day 1 they put you through some preliminary drills... Shifting, Braking, ABS braking in the wet, Oval, Figure eight on a wet track, etc.
If you have never tracked your car this is an awesome school to start with. The tools they teach you are extremely valuable on the racetrack and much of it will transfer to the road to make you a better driver.
Even if you have some track experience by the end of Day 2 you will still have had a great time, guaranteed.
A few more things to mention...
Staying in a condo onsite is perfect! Just walk to your room after a long day on the track (or after a drink at the bar in the club house with some new friends) and wake up and drive! The bar also serves food in the evening, a limited menu but we ate there one of the days and it was quite good. The best dining in town was definitely at the winery.
Being in the condo also meant that my wife (after doing a ride-along with an instructor once) could sit on our balcony drinking coffee (or wine) and watch me drive in comfort. We had an end unit and turn two of our track went right around that corner of our building. She got some good photos and video from her point and shoot camera from there.
The food served during the course was good, and enough choice that all but the most picky of eaters would be satisfied (if you have special dietary restrictions I think they will accommodate you if you let them know in advance). They have a breakfast and lunch buffet, I think the lunch provided is included in the course fee and breakfast is a very reasonable amount added on. Wives are welcome at breakfast and lunch for a small fee, and they are also welcome to attend all the class room sessions as well as getting to do ride-alongs with the instructors when you are out on course.
Everything about the school is top notch, from the entire facility to the instructors and administration people, and the beautiful setting it was all great.
Especially the people, from Rick Malone, J.J., Blake and all the rest of the amazing instructors to Melinda and all the other sales and admin staff and even security, I have to say that it was the people who really MADE IT. Everyone was so personable and helpful, like they all loved their jobs.
Not only were the instructors knowledgeable and able to teach you the skills but they did so with such enthusiasm. They all made it their mission to make you a better driver and to ensure that you had a good time doing it.
A big thank-you to everyone at Spring Mountain!
For $1000, just do it!
You can find a few pics here...
https://flic.kr/p/Cq4KUK
Last edited by formula80_ca; 01-11-2016 at 11:27 PM. Reason: photo link didn't work
01-09-2016, 07:05 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Jul 2015
Location: Northern California
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St. Jude Donor '15
Thanks for taking the time for the in depth review, it sounds like an awesome experience! I am definitely putting it on my list for this year! 
01-09-2016, 08:32 AM
#3
Pro
Awesome review - thanks so much. I'll be there March 9th- 10th 
01-09-2016, 09:11 AM
#4
Racer
I just got my car on Dec 11th and looked at the schedule and there were seats available in good numbers in most classes. Over Christmas I looked and pretty much all classes in March and April were booked. Called and had my name put on the waiting list for a few preferred classes. Got on the website the other day at lunch and saw they had added a few classes around the time I was looking to go, so I called and got registered for March 21/22.
Can't wait!
Did you stay on-site the night before the class? I will be in Las Vegas over that weekend, and turned down the on-site condo for the night before, thinking I would just drive in early that morning, but now I am thinking that might not be a good idea. That class is nearly full now, so the condos are probably all taken but will call Monday to see.
Can't wait!
Did you stay on-site the night before the class? I will be in Las Vegas over that weekend, and turned down the on-site condo for the night before, thinking I would just drive in early that morning, but now I am thinking that might not be a good idea. That class is nearly full now, so the condos are probably all taken but will call Monday to see.
01-09-2016, 12:00 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
01-09-2016, 01:03 PM
#6
Racer
Great review, thanks for posting this. I am signed up for March 21-22. Can't wait.
01-09-2016, 01:35 PM
#7
Team Owner
I went this past December, it was a ton of fun, I highly recommend it.
I didn't read the OP's entire review, but in case he didnt' mention it, bring your own helmet or head sock if you have either. While both are supplied by the school, it's kind of like renting shoes at the bowling alley, but worse
I didn't read the OP's entire review, but in case he didnt' mention it, bring your own helmet or head sock if you have either. While both are supplied by the school, it's kind of like renting shoes at the bowling alley, but worse
01-09-2016, 02:21 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Looking forward to it in April. Have an HPDE under my belt in my C7 and autocross a bunch, was worried about being frustrated but it sounds like they can recognize the more aggressive/experienced drivers.
01-09-2016, 02:25 PM
#9
Team Owner
the first 1/2 of the first day they'll determin who belongs where and switch up the groups if need be.
01-09-2016, 03:00 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Great video, thanks for the rundown. I will be there on the 25/26th of January.
01-09-2016, 03:26 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2012
Location: Hagerstown MD
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St. Jude Donor '15-'16,'18
Thanks for posting. What is the approximate total track time for each student? I am thinking an 8GB card will be large enough. Nice video.
01-09-2016, 03:55 PM
#12
It's interesting that they change the track for different sessions. My track course didn't look anything like that.
01-09-2016, 04:04 PM
#13
Team Owner
01-09-2016, 04:58 PM
#14
Pro
Thread Starter
I just got my car on Dec 11th and looked at the schedule and there were seats available in good numbers in most classes. Over Christmas I looked and pretty much all classes in March and April were booked. Called and had my name put on the waiting list for a few preferred classes. Got on the website the other day at lunch and saw they had added a few classes around the time I was looking to go, so I called and got registered for March 21/22.
Can't wait!
Did you stay on-site the night before the class? I will be in Las Vegas over that weekend, and turned down the on-site condo for the night before, thinking I would just drive in early that morning, but now I am thinking that might not be a good idea. That class is nearly full now, so the condos are probably all taken but will call Monday to see.
Can't wait!
Did you stay on-site the night before the class? I will be in Las Vegas over that weekend, and turned down the on-site condo for the night before, thinking I would just drive in early that morning, but now I am thinking that might not be a good idea. That class is nearly full now, so the condos are probably all taken but will call Monday to see.
Enjoy the experience!
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08G8V8 (01-09-2016)
01-09-2016, 05:17 PM
#15
Pro
Thread Starter
There are 3 main track layouts but they can be combined in lots of different ways and there are many smaller configuration changes within each track, for instance I have seen Level 2 course video that used the same track as I did except for an extra bit added on to end of the back straight with a couple of different chicanes before rejoining the front straight.
What track were you on Karanx7 ?
Awesome facility... at some point in the future I would love to buy one of the plots of land around the track that they are selling and build a house there, join the club and make it my winter playground.
01-09-2016, 05:28 PM
#16
Pro
Thread Starter
For me it took a little longer before they found 3 other guys with similar skill levels to group me with, and even before the last session they dropped one Z06 driver from our group and switched a different Z06 driver in. So they are constantly assessing how everyone is doing out there on track.
01-09-2016, 05:53 PM
#17
Pro
Thread Starter
01-09-2016, 08:31 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
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Location: Hagerstown MD
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St. Jude Donor '15-'16,'18
Had my wife read your post and watch a couple minutes of your video. Still haven't convinced her to do a ride along with an instructor. I'll keep working on her. Looking forward to my class on Feb. 10 - 11. Great post.
01-09-2016, 08:31 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
Great review!
When I attended the GM sponsored class last May, the breakfast and lunch were included.
I attended with a friend and we requested one room with two beds so two nights were included in the $1K fee (instead of each paying for the second night in separate rooms).
When I attended the GM sponsored class last May, the breakfast and lunch were included.
I attended with a friend and we requested one room with two beds so two nights were included in the $1K fee (instead of each paying for the second night in separate rooms).
01-09-2016, 10:27 PM
#20
Administrator
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Thanks for the very detailed review of the course. Someday I hope to attend it also.