One car the C7 might have trouble with
08-12-2014, 09:45 PM
#41
To compare the cars, put the same compound tires on both cars while keeping each car at their OEM tire size.
But the Z28 is a track-day car and also a collectible street car.
Here are some race cars:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_FR500
http://www.allpar.com/cars/viper/competition-coupe.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...1-gt3-cup-news
Well, GM is recognizing and marketing track-day use of their cars and coming out with some special editions for the track-day use
.
Last edited by B Stead; 08-13-2014 at 03:33 AM.
08-12-2014, 10:06 PM
#42
Melting Slicks
I've been watching it on TV. I erased the last race after watching it so I'm not going to try to tell you what the name of the series is, but they are racing Mustangs, Porsches, Aston Martins, and a bunch of other stuff. The cars are production based, not tube frame and the Camaro is designated the Z/28R, I'm pretty sure.
So I'm the uninformed one, huh? Start watching the sports car races instead of spending your weekends waxing your car and you'll see.
You built the SAE car, or were you on a team that built it?
Oh here is a little teaser I found from C&D on the Lightning Lap. Looks like Z28 was faster.
Last edited by racerns; 08-13-2014 at 07:08 AM.
08-15-2014, 11:41 AM
#43
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I received an email update, so this information should be correct: the series that the (much hated) Z/28 appears in is the Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge and the next race will be Aug 17 at VIR (not absolutely sure about the venue because I'm still working on my first cup of coffee and I'm still a little fuzzy).
There are no Corvettes racing in this series, so if you want to root for the home team, if has to be for the Camaros. Sorry.
One name that might sound familiar is Boris Said, who drives with Eric Curran in a Whelen sponsored Camaro. Boris might still be sidelined by injuries suffered in a Daytona prototype accident.
Other cars participating in the series include Mustangs, Aston Martins, several different types of Porsches, and others as well.
Despite the name of the series, the tires are actually manufactured by Hoosier, according to my info but Continental is stamped on the sidewall. With all the cars participating in the series, there are a lot of used racing tires available that make for a cheap alternative to buying a new set of A6's or R6's. I've used a set and they are not as fast as a new Hoosiers or Kumhos, but they last a long time and make for a good practice tire.
There are no Corvettes racing in this series, so if you want to root for the home team, if has to be for the Camaros. Sorry.
One name that might sound familiar is Boris Said, who drives with Eric Curran in a Whelen sponsored Camaro. Boris might still be sidelined by injuries suffered in a Daytona prototype accident.
Other cars participating in the series include Mustangs, Aston Martins, several different types of Porsches, and others as well.
Despite the name of the series, the tires are actually manufactured by Hoosier, according to my info but Continental is stamped on the sidewall. With all the cars participating in the series, there are a lot of used racing tires available that make for a cheap alternative to buying a new set of A6's or R6's. I've used a set and they are not as fast as a new Hoosiers or Kumhos, but they last a long time and make for a good practice tire.
08-17-2014, 03:08 AM
#44
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: CA.
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 0
Received 281 Likes
on
258 Posts
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
My opinion---Even the tack Z/28 strpped down weighs 700 LBS more than a stock C7 so it needs more power to pull its big *** around the track--
Another thing--you can't compare lap times when most likely they had different drivers in each car !!! No 2 drivers drive the same or have the same experience in every car-- And the tire thing is huge too The Z comes with racing grip rubber that is barely DOT legal if at all-- VS the heavy C7 runflats
I sawed off my mufflers on my C7 and only ran straight pipes with 4" flowmaster tips
Just barely louder than the open NPP but it knocked off 72lbs of weight--It would be easy to get a C7 minus the run-flats--no mufflers and removing a few simple things to get it in the 2900 lb range--Then bring on all the Camaros !!!
Another thing--you can't compare lap times when most likely they had different drivers in each car !!! No 2 drivers drive the same or have the same experience in every car-- And the tire thing is huge too The Z comes with racing grip rubber that is barely DOT legal if at all-- VS the heavy C7 runflats
I sawed off my mufflers on my C7 and only ran straight pipes with 4" flowmaster tips
Just barely louder than the open NPP but it knocked off 72lbs of weight--It would be easy to get a C7 minus the run-flats--no mufflers and removing a few simple things to get it in the 2900 lb range--Then bring on all the Camaros !!!
08-17-2014, 09:25 AM
#45
Instructor
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Corona CA
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My opinion---Even the tack Z/28 strpped down weighs 700 LBS more than a stock C7 so it needs more power to pull its big *** around the track--
Another thing--you can't compare lap times when most likely they had different drivers in each car !!! No 2 drivers drive the same or have the same experience in every car-- And the tire thing is huge too The Z comes with racing grip rubber that is barely DOT legal if at all-- VS the heavy C7 runflats
I sawed off my mufflers on my C7 and only ran straight pipes with 4" flowmaster tips
Just barely louder than the open NPP but it knocked off 72lbs of weight--It would be easy to get a C7 minus the run-flats--no mufflers and removing a few simple things to get it in the 2900 lb range--Then bring on all the Camaros !!!
Another thing--you can't compare lap times when most likely they had different drivers in each car !!! No 2 drivers drive the same or have the same experience in every car-- And the tire thing is huge too The Z comes with racing grip rubber that is barely DOT legal if at all-- VS the heavy C7 runflats
I sawed off my mufflers on my C7 and only ran straight pipes with 4" flowmaster tips
Just barely louder than the open NPP but it knocked off 72lbs of weight--It would be easy to get a C7 minus the run-flats--no mufflers and removing a few simple things to get it in the 2900 lb range--Then bring on all the Camaros !!!
Oh please. Modify one, modify the other. In race trim, the Z/28.R is ~ 3000lb with cage. They add ballast. That's the full steel chassis.
The LS7 in unrestricted form with the GM Showroom Stock cam (a GMPP) is ~700HP. Remember it's daddy is the C5R Vette endurance racing engine.
The Z/28 is the true 4 seater Z06, while the CTS-V is the 4 seat base Corvette.
Ford has made some Mustangs over the years to dink with the Z/28 1LE Camaros. But they are going to struggle to trump the newest Z/28 in the immediate future.
08-18-2014, 01:05 AM
#46
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: CA.
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 0
Received 281 Likes
on
258 Posts
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
(first note the Z/28 is built specifically to rape Boss 302 Mustangs, not Vettes, different class)
Oh please. Modify one, modify the other. In race trim, the Z/28.R is ~ 3000lb with cage. They add ballast. That's the full steel chassis.
The LS7 in unrestricted form with the GM Showroom Stock cam (a GMPP) is ~700HP. Remember it's daddy is the C5R Vette endurance racing engine.
The Z/28 is the true 4 seater Z06, while the CTS-V is the 4 seat base Corvette.
Ford has made some Mustangs over the years to dink with the Z/28 1LE Camaros. But they are going to struggle to trump the newest Z/28 in the immediate future.
Oh please. Modify one, modify the other. In race trim, the Z/28.R is ~ 3000lb with cage. They add ballast. That's the full steel chassis.
The LS7 in unrestricted form with the GM Showroom Stock cam (a GMPP) is ~700HP. Remember it's daddy is the C5R Vette endurance racing engine.
The Z/28 is the true 4 seater Z06, while the CTS-V is the 4 seat base Corvette.
Ford has made some Mustangs over the years to dink with the Z/28 1LE Camaros. But they are going to struggle to trump the newest Z/28 in the immediate future.
And a Ford Mustang VS a LT1 Corvette ?? Do you know in the real world the over rated Hi HP Mustangs may show more top end HP but under the curve the TQ is a joke !! Either in drag racing or off the corner in a road race TQ is what gets the car to move and launch--Even a Mustang with 520 HP has LESS TQ than even a C6 under the curve----
The Z28 is a factory drag car--- Yes My 1967 chevelle set up for drag racing may give my C7 a run for the money on a drag race--but on a road course ??? Not a chance !!! a 300 HP Honda would beat my Chevelle and it has 575 Crank Hp and 550 ft lbs of TQ
You are talking apples and oranges--- an Indy car VS a pro stock car
Sure the Indy car makes more HP but the pro stock car specifically purpose oriented would kill the indy car in a drag race
The Corvette IS NOT a DRAG racing purpose built car--and even if it the Z28 is----It is way too heavy to compete seriously and the front end weight in horrible--- My chevelle weighs only 2900 lbs--with only 1700 lbs in the front---Even though it has Less HP than the new Z28 I would race it for Pink Slips !!!!!!!!!!!
08-18-2014, 11:14 AM
#47
You could possibly be right, but every time the subject of track driving comes up, I'm reminded that 99.8% of Corvette drivers will never see a track and I should shut up about it.
And I did NOT start this thread to rile people up. What it has revealed, though, is what seems to be a lot of insecurity about the Corvette. I don't have that. I think the Corvette is a great performance car, especially with price factored in, and I used to do a lot of Porsche club events and had more than a few top time of day results that I'm sure rubbed the Porsche people the wrong way. They were polite about it, though.
What I think I perceive here is the notion that it's easy to build a fast car. I don 't think it is. I remember an engineering major from school who decided to build a car for his thesis. He couldn't drive around two consecutive corners without a spin.
The Z/28, from what I can tell, was green lighted because they wanted a car that could be raced against other manufacturers successfully like the Trans Am of old. That's why the original Z28 had a 302 cid engine, because the Trans Am rules limited them to 5 liters.
I only brought this up because I was genuinely surprised that there wasn't a pretty big gap in favor of the C7. Maybe at the Nurburgring it will be reversed.
Take it easy, nobody is slamming the Vette, even if it does have 13 speakers.
And I did NOT start this thread to rile people up. What it has revealed, though, is what seems to be a lot of insecurity about the Corvette. I don't have that. I think the Corvette is a great performance car, especially with price factored in, and I used to do a lot of Porsche club events and had more than a few top time of day results that I'm sure rubbed the Porsche people the wrong way. They were polite about it, though.
What I think I perceive here is the notion that it's easy to build a fast car. I don 't think it is. I remember an engineering major from school who decided to build a car for his thesis. He couldn't drive around two consecutive corners without a spin.
The Z/28, from what I can tell, was green lighted because they wanted a car that could be raced against other manufacturers successfully like the Trans Am of old. That's why the original Z28 had a 302 cid engine, because the Trans Am rules limited them to 5 liters.
I only brought this up because I was genuinely surprised that there wasn't a pretty big gap in favor of the C7. Maybe at the Nurburgring it will be reversed.
Take it easy, nobody is slamming the Vette, even if it does have 13 speakers.
Or when the Z28 beat the GTR in some track comparisons were Corvette owners here arguing that the GTR would do better if equipped with the same rubber?
Can't have it both ways.
Sure, I feel competitive when the C7 is being compared to non-GM cars, but to the Camaro? Really?
08-18-2014, 02:04 PM
#48
Gee, didn't take long for the personal insults to start.
Why do you people take it personally when a group of engineers manage to take a land barge like the Camaro and manage to get it to go incrementally faster than the Vette? You are acting personally insulted.
The way I look at it is, what if somebody said he was going to take a 1962 El Dorado and make it a faster track car then a Porsche GT3? You'd think he was crazy. But if he actually accomplished it, it would be amazing.
What I was trying to point out, is there seems to be a lot of chassis engineering talent at GM, and it's certainly not going to hurt the Corvette. Of course the Z28 has sticky tires and benefits from that. Of course it's a stripper and doesn't have a radio. Since when does a radio help lap times? If all these things were done to the Vette, it would be much faster, but the typical Vette owner these days seems to be more interested in cruising in comfort than turning laps, so don't gripe when a hard core version of a lesser model car can beat it.
And Turbo8765, once I get my shocks back from rebuilding, we can talk about a meeting. Just no drag racing or street racing.
Why do you people take it personally when a group of engineers manage to take a land barge like the Camaro and manage to get it to go incrementally faster than the Vette? You are acting personally insulted.
The way I look at it is, what if somebody said he was going to take a 1962 El Dorado and make it a faster track car then a Porsche GT3? You'd think he was crazy. But if he actually accomplished it, it would be amazing.
What I was trying to point out, is there seems to be a lot of chassis engineering talent at GM, and it's certainly not going to hurt the Corvette. Of course the Z28 has sticky tires and benefits from that. Of course it's a stripper and doesn't have a radio. Since when does a radio help lap times? If all these things were done to the Vette, it would be much faster, but the typical Vette owner these days seems to be more interested in cruising in comfort than turning laps, so don't gripe when a hard core version of a lesser model car can beat it.
And Turbo8765, once I get my shocks back from rebuilding, we can talk about a meeting. Just no drag racing or street racing.
I'm STUNNED by what GM was able to do with the Z28. I think it's fantastic.
I do think you seem to enjoy getting people a bit riled, like suggesting a "meeting". Having said that, let me know when you get your shocks back. What part of the country are you in?
08-18-2014, 03:16 PM
#49
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I apologize if I seemed, rude, certainly didn't mean to be. But my point remains valid. Run both cars on PSSs and the C7 will likely be faster. Run both cars on trofeos and the C7 will likely be faster.
I'm STUNNED by what GM was able to do with the Z28. I think it's fantastic.
I do think you seem to enjoy getting people a bit riled, like suggesting a "meeting". Having said that, let me know when you get your shocks back. What part of the country are you in?
I'm STUNNED by what GM was able to do with the Z28. I think it's fantastic.
I do think you seem to enjoy getting people a bit riled, like suggesting a "meeting". Having said that, let me know when you get your shocks back. What part of the country are you in?
I'm not so thin skinned as to be offended. A lot of trash talk happens on the internet. But I really don't understand why bringing up an article and pointing out results that surprised me constitutes incitement. Certainly people don't expect the Corvette do be the pinnacle of performance, especially when a 200 hp upgrade is coming soon. The Vette is an excellent car, but it will never be the best, just really good.
08-19-2014, 11:29 PM
#50
Instructor
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Corona CA
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where have you been !! The new C7 has a direct injected engine not a LS7---You need to do some research before you say stupid things ---
And a Ford Mustang VS a LT1 Corvette ?? Do you know in the real world the over rated Hi HP Mustangs may show more top end HP but under the curve the TQ is a joke !! Either in drag racing or off the corner in a road race TQ is what gets the car to move and launch--Even a Mustang with 520 HP has LESS TQ than even a C6 under the curve----
The Z28 is a factory drag car--- Yes My 1967 chevelle set up for drag racing may give my C7 a run for the money on a drag race--but on a road course ??? Not a chance !!! a 300 HP Honda would beat my Chevelle and it has 575 Crank Hp and 550 ft lbs of TQ
You are talking apples and oranges--- an Indy car VS a pro stock car
Sure the Indy car makes more HP but the pro stock car specifically purpose oriented would kill the indy car in a drag race
The Corvette IS NOT a DRAG racing purpose built car--and even if it the Z28 is----It is way too heavy to compete seriously and the front end weight in horrible--- My chevelle weighs only 2900 lbs--with only 1700 lbs in the front---Even though it has Less HP than the new Z28 I would race it for Pink Slips !!!!!!!!!!!
And a Ford Mustang VS a LT1 Corvette ?? Do you know in the real world the over rated Hi HP Mustangs may show more top end HP but under the curve the TQ is a joke !! Either in drag racing or off the corner in a road race TQ is what gets the car to move and launch--Even a Mustang with 520 HP has LESS TQ than even a C6 under the curve----
The Z28 is a factory drag car--- Yes My 1967 chevelle set up for drag racing may give my C7 a run for the money on a drag race--but on a road course ??? Not a chance !!! a 300 HP Honda would beat my Chevelle and it has 575 Crank Hp and 550 ft lbs of TQ
You are talking apples and oranges--- an Indy car VS a pro stock car
Sure the Indy car makes more HP but the pro stock car specifically purpose oriented would kill the indy car in a drag race
The Corvette IS NOT a DRAG racing purpose built car--and even if it the Z28 is----It is way too heavy to compete seriously and the front end weight in horrible--- My chevelle weighs only 2900 lbs--with only 1700 lbs in the front---Even though it has Less HP than the new Z28 I would race it for Pink Slips !!!!!!!!!!!
You remind me of the South Park episode where they were sniffing cat ****.
The LS7 is deliberately de-cammed for retail sales. It's a 700HP engine with a 500HP cam in it.
The 505HP version is a grandma going to church tune.
In any case, the Z/28 today is the best Z/28 in history, by a long shot. And wickedly faster around a RR track than anything Ford has put a license plate on for sale retail. Even the Ford GT.
Last edited by McRat; 08-19-2014 at 11:31 PM.
08-20-2014, 04:43 PM
#52
There is a Z28.R factory-built race car. But the Z28 street car is a different car. The race car would have a stiffer chassis and less weight.
But the track times of the Z28 street car ? It's suspension stiffness and race tires. The Corvette could have T1 suspension and race tires.
Also, the Z28 and the Corvette are not similar cars. The Z28 is built out of folded sheet metal and often relies on wide flat surfaces for structure. The Corvette is built with hydroformed extrusions and puts the structure of the chassis directly where the forces are. The Corvette has a chassis good enough to be a race car while the Camaro would need bracing.
A T1 suspension on a Corvette ? Yeah, a stiffer suspension is faster load transfer and that's more traction on the turn-in. And then don't forget the R-comp race tires. The race tires can spike the track times but then not last very long
.
But the track times of the Z28 street car ? It's suspension stiffness and race tires. The Corvette could have T1 suspension and race tires.
Also, the Z28 and the Corvette are not similar cars. The Z28 is built out of folded sheet metal and often relies on wide flat surfaces for structure. The Corvette is built with hydroformed extrusions and puts the structure of the chassis directly where the forces are. The Corvette has a chassis good enough to be a race car while the Camaro would need bracing.
A T1 suspension on a Corvette ? Yeah, a stiffer suspension is faster load transfer and that's more traction on the turn-in. And then don't forget the R-comp race tires. The race tires can spike the track times but then not last very long
.
Last edited by B Stead; 08-20-2014 at 05:10 PM.
08-22-2014, 07:22 PM
#53
Instructor
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Corona CA
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But the ZL-1 Camaro is not famous for it's 1/4 mile ET's. It's fame is from it's lap times around a road course. The Ford GT500 is lighter and packs far more ponies, but the ZL-1 will outrun it on a track.
3 modern Camaros today are serious track weapons:
SS w/1LE option code $40k, bargain. 426HP LS3 Vette engine.
ZL-1 $55k. 580HP LSA Cadillac engine
Z/28 $75k. 505HP (underrated) LS7 Z06 engine.
Last edited by McRat; 08-22-2014 at 09:10 PM.
