0ProChargerTech

Nailed it.

We just wanted to make sure people knew that we have had ZERO overheating complaints thus far, and that the Vertical intercooler works quite wonderfully.

carlrx7

This blows my mind! Incredible. Using the 72% increase you mentioned in the above posts.

Base IAT = 100F
I'd consider nearly no rise as less than 5.
Than Verticle = 105F
72% increase
Than Horizontal = 109F


Does that sound right?

Only reason my mind is blown because of my previous recorded supercharger temps from my C6 setup. 100 base and 160 at the top of the quarter. My TT kit would go up to 130 IAT.

Very impressed!

-Carl

chuntington101

Thanks for posting data ProCharger! Very interesting findings. I would have liked to have seen strain gauges on the suspension components to prove the was no impact to aero but that might be one step too far! Your not an OEM after all.

Do you have any flow data / CAD type analysis for the horizontal intercooler and scoops? It would be interesting to see.

Also did you guys look at probably the best intercooler scoop ever made, Porsche 993 turbo (air cooled engines)? It used several small scoops and was very effective at getting air to the top mounted intercooler.

Once again thanks for posting the information you have. It's always great, if very infrequent, to see after market providers publishing this kind of test data to back up there claims. Well done!

0ProChargerTech

Oh how we would have loved to take it to that step. We have some ideas to try on our next track testing session, but that won't be till spring. To cold here in KC, to safely test at those speeds right now.

What you speak of, is much like our final design, that worked the best.





Your very welcome, we appreciate it!

chuntington101

Are the fins on the diffuser vertical, forward facing or rearward? It's difficult to see from the renderings.

Kracka

It appears they angle rearward.

0ProChargerTech

Rear facing.

The write up explains the issues we faced when trying to point any scoop forward. It would cause lift of the nose, and effect the transition at high speed braking coming into a high speed turn.

So the rear facing scoops, keep the handling normal.
And it uses the natural flow of the air going under the car, to do the work of "drawing" air down through the intercooler core.

Works like a Champ!

Theta

In case anyone is interested, and I don't think ProCharger will mind me saying this, we (and by we, I really mean Ron and company at Vengeance) are going to be testing their aero diffuser on my car with an ECS unit and comparing IATs vs. the normal OEM rubber flaps.

Should be interesting - I'm all for trying new ideas!

0ProChargerTech

Doesn't bother us, one bit.

It would be an honor to see every lay down intercooler have a "ProCharger Style" diffuser on the bottom.

The normal OEM rubber flaps didn't really do that bad, as we stated in our write up. Though they had a major downfall on drastically lowered cars, due to the ground clearance issue. And at high speeds, the flaps would begin to just lay over, thus dropping down the IAT effectiveness. Unless your running on a road course, or standing 1/2 or 1 mile runs, you might not see the full effect/difference.

However, there really is no downside to the "MutiVane" even if you just free up a bunch of ground clearance on the nose.

Blown-C7

I have a C7 with the horizontal intercooler (ECS Novi 1500 unit), and has the rubber air dam as you indicated in your article. My concern has been that under high speeds the air dam will bend over thus dramatically affecting the efficiency, and overall air flow into the cooler. I run Texas Mile, and other 1/2 mile events so am very interested here....can I just get the air diffuser kit that will fit on my existing horizontal intercooler, or to get the most effect would i need to go to the vertical unit? If putting on my current horizontal unit, does it fit easily, or does it have to be modified? Pricing for both options??
Thanks
Matt
713-299-8035

0ProChargerTech

"Ideally" it would be our intercooler, with our diffuser
That is the version that we know with 100% certain will work killer for what you are wanting to do.

Yes, our diffuser will bolt into any C7's lower splash panel.
(Or you can order the GM lower panel from us, thats Pre-cut with already)

Due to the size difference of the ECS intercooler vs. ours, it would be hard to tell how different the holes would line up. Since ideally you want the diffuser to pull air through the core only. (don't really want air slipping past the end tanks of the intercooler)

You can look at our post, and the Cad files give you a good idea of the size of the hole on the underside of the OEM splash panel. Best idea would be to compare that to yours, and see if it will work. (Guess you could always then use a "block off" plate, to block the sections of the end tanks if they were exposed, so that only the core was visible)

chuntington101

Hi ProCharger. Just going back to the original tests, you say that the scoop feeding air from the bottom of the car through the cooler caused aero issues. Can you explain that a little more? Did it create too much downforce at the front? It can't really cause lift as you are moving air from a lower session of the car to a higher. I guess it depends on where that air then goes and what impacts it has on the airflow over other sections of the car. However I can't see it having that much impact.

Also, dose the louvered setup you supply with the kit reverse flow at slow speeds with air rising through the core? Not saying this is a bad thing as thanks to the rad being laid forward you will naturally get some convection air flow now anyway. Dose this help the intercooler also?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the probing questions. Once again I'm NOT putting this design down just interested in it.

0ProChargerTech

For months this forum had lots of "theories" of what the effects of scoops and flaps would do on horizontal intercoolers. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, and there was lots of good chatter about it.

However, we had to wait till we had warmer weather, to make the investment in the track rental be worth it. (No sense in testing them if its 50 degrees out)

Anyways, without a doubt having an enclosed scoop on the BOTTOM side of the intercooler, caused a MAJOR aerodynamic issue. I'm not an Aero engineer, however the first time the car came down the front strait away, you could visually tell something was not good with the front end. The wheel gap looked like the car was trying to do a wheelie at high speed, and then after the driver came back in from the session, he was like "That is sketchy" and he explained how bad the braking transition into the high speed corners had been effected.

We then tried (3) versions of the enclosed forward facing scoop on the bottom. All had the same results. Not to mention our driver didn't even want to test them past 135+ mph, due to the lift of the nose.

One would "think" the scoop on the top would have this same effect, however it just wasn't the case in the testing we did. The scoop on the top was fine aerodynamically, however over time caused the engine coolant temperatures to rise. (Likely due to the intercooler stealing the airflow away from the radiator)

When a car is at low speed, our blowers aren't making much boost if any at all, thus no real heat being developed. So the air flow of the blower cools the core, as well as the core acting like a heat sink.

Nothing wrong with questions! Its how we all learn.

11B250

I'm bringing an old topic back up but I wanted to ask.

What disadvantage does the horizontal cooler have vs the vertical? You say vertical outperforms horizontal. What does it outperform in? Power? Vertical can push out more hp because the air is slightly cooler on IAT?

I don't see why everyone wouldn't wanna go with horizontal setup if it gives the most consistent IAT and ECT.

I might decide I'll drag and street race and get vertical but what do I do if I wanna get a taste of road racing for one weekend... I can't because I have a vertical setup?

Why not just offer horizontal only and be done with it? Are you going to gain that much more power with a vertical over a horizontal?

beachcomber

I have the horizontal intercooler on my procharger. I don't track it, but do stay on it heavily. Zero issues and very very pleased.

0ProChargerTech

The vertical gives the coolest air charge temp.
Just slightly over out side temp actually, even at the end of the 1/4 mile.
Thus it gives the best performance, and the lowest timing reduction, while street driving, or drag racing.

If you are going to Road race the car, then go horizontal. You won't be let down with that either. With the air scoops added to the bottom of the intercooler, we have made it very effective in this position.


Never a doubt in our mind you would.

We did plenty of testing to make sure the Vertical intercooler would cause literally ZERO issues

11B250

so if 2 exact cars raced (with only diff being horizontal vs vertical) in exact conditions at the 1/4 track, the vertical car will be faster because of lower IAT and thus less timing pulled.

however if you take both said cars to a road race event, vertical is going to give serious problems after some laps where the horizontal will not have any issues.

so if you even THINK of doing a road race course, you should really get horizontal. a no brainer.

I will keep this in mind when it's time to add a power adder

0ProChargerTech

In a nut shell you nailed it.
Hence why we offer both intercoolers.

The vertical vs horizontal won't be that big of a different in the 1/4
But it is a difference. And the more elevated the power levels are, the more this will become known.

Thanks again for the question.

beachcomber

Ok, now I'm even confused. I have the ProCharger with horizontal IC. In all these posts within this thread, don't think any post clearly says if you plan to do 'x' with your car, use this setup with vertical, or horizontal, etc.

Just when I thought I made the right choice with the horizontal, after reading this thread I'm second guessing myself....

0ProChargerTech

Every post has pretty much said the exact same thing.
(As well as our blogs, etc)

The only reason we have found to use the horizontal intercooler, is if a person is planning on using the car on a road race course. (not the road, but an actually track day event, such as a time attack)

Competitors of ours, and people in this forum seemed to argue that for some reason. However now over a year later with hundreds of systems out there (mostly Vertical) we have yet to have a single complaint about engine overheating, or any issues at all actually.

That being said. Do not feel that you made the wrong choice, since we spent a great deal of time perfecting that Horizontal unit to maximize its effectiveness with the lower scoops.

So much so, that we often sell just the scoops to customers running our competitors products that have horizontal intercoolers.