leadville1

Looks like the paint has held up really well, a lot of times you see the color turn darker after track use. They look very nice.

I am going to order some soon, my car is in Storage but they will be going on in the spring and the stock Brembo's are coming off.

The C7 is a Monster that just needs more brake on the track, this should do it.

Rkreigh

I've had great success with the wilwood superlite 6 piston setup on my c5

where is the best place to buy the replacement rotors?

0Todd TCE

Hat centering or as they call them "register rings" are nothing new or anything to be concerned with. TCE has used this format for years for the very same reason; cross fit of parts. It's simply a business issue allowing the same hats to be used on multiple applications rather than pure, dedicated parts. The stud circle and offset allowing for use on other hubs with a different bore requirement.

This would be no different than having dedicated Corvette calipers, rotors, hoses etc. It's just not practical to make such parts vs having a more universal option.

The rings are retained by the step in the hat so there's no chance of them dislodging once the hat is in place on the hub.

X25

I currently own both StopTech and Wilwood kits, and StopTechs. I do have StopTech on my Camaro SS 1LE, and do own a Wilwood kit on my '13 MX5 Miata. I also used to own a StopTech kit, almost identical to my current kit on the Camaro, on my '13 Z06.

• Wilwood kit requires all those shims that you need to experiment with for perfect fitment. Unfortunately, on some cars, it does not fit perfect even with the help of shims. StopTech kit, on the other hand, fits perfect, and you can install it in 20-30 minutes, since all you need to do is to replace the caliper and rotors; no fitment or adjustment is needed.
• 14.25" is not sufficient for these cars. You should opt for 15" to get your money's worth.
• Caliper's weight (-4 lbs) probably does not take the adapter bracket into account. The calipers are usually only marginally lighter when everything (including the bigger brake pads) are added up. The real weight savings are usually at the rotor, which is more important since it is rotating anyway.
• StopTech's caliper is still stiffer than Wilwood's new caliper (as far as I know), yet allows you to change pads without having to remove the whole caliper. Do you really want to remove the whole caliper for a simple brake pad change? Really?
• The paint, by the way, will be much more resistant to darkening compared to Brembos, since Brembo uses Euro-approved clear-coat, which darkens at high temp.

I bought the StopTech 15" kit for Camaro at $2600. It's not overpriced like Brembos, and I believe it adds measurable value over Wilwoods. I am happy that Wilwood has finally improved their mainstream calipers, but eliminating removable bridge in the process tells me that their material is not rigid enough without this change, which is troubling.

leadville1

I have Stoptech's on my M3 ST40's front and rear. They have done extremely well for me and I have never had one issue with them. The problem with the Stoptech kit that is coming out for the Vette, is that the kit won't fit under 18" wheels they are going to be 385 rotors. I already have 18" track wheels, so that is a big problem for me.

A 360mm rotor should be more than adequate under this car especially with the rear being the same size. As for changing pads, I agree this is not the most convenient process but then again their pads and consumables are also thicker than Stoptech and cost way less. I have seen several people at the track who have been running the Essex kit which is 355mm with no rear kit and are having great results. So a front and rear Wilwood with 360mm rotors should hold up.

I also believe these calipers being forged with a fixed bridge should be very stiff.

0Todd TCE

Lateral shimming is engineered to account for production variations in a lot of oe and related aftermarket parts. With other companies producing rotors (caliper kits) as well as hub/bearing assemblies some variation can occur shifting caliper centering. The lateral shimming also allows for optional deletion of dust plates on some kits of fitting of air ducting where common mounting points may shift the caliper bracket.

Also as pads should be placed at the edge of the rotor radial shimming allows fine tuning of friction material variation by manufacture. I've seen both of these issues first hand on various cars over the years.

It's not to say Wilwood (nor TCE) can actually make it spot on without the use of shims. But rather that this allows the consumer some flexibility in dealing with their particular needs. And of course negates the potential negative "I bought one of their kits and it didn't fit my rotors!" comments when said poster fails to mention his ebay bearing kit...


BTW... I can do this kit in a 15" rotor if someone wants. Be a cool project, just ask.

X25

I installed 2 StopTech ST60, and 1 ST40 BBKs, and they were always direct fit, just like OEM in all cases. On my Miata, despite using all the shims provided with the Wilwood kit, the pad was still not perfectly aligned.

I have to say, I love your statement that "lateral shimming is engineered"

descartesfool

So why not just make the kit with no "engineered washers" as shims and no hub rings if they can make it spot on. It's not like an AP Racing kit comes with washers or hub rings. It's not like the OEM Brembo's come with "engineered washers" from GM.

0Todd TCE

I already covered the reasons politely and fairly thoroughly. You wish for me to expand on it more?

I'm not sure what "engineered washers" are tho. Not something quoted from me.

descartesfool

I read your explanation, but it dealt with parts from other suppliers. Since the Wilwood kit supplies everything you need with rotors, hats and calipers as a complete kit for the Corvette, why are washers necessary, and why are hub rings necessary? They are not necessary on the OEM brake parts. A kit with no hub rings and no washers would allow for a much cleaner install.


The comment about engineered washers was in reference to your statement stating "lateral shimming is engineered" which is done with washers in the Vette magazine article.


I am not clear if the Wilwood supplied rotor in this kit is a fully floating design or is simply a rotor ring bolted to an aluminum hat. PFC rotors and AP Racing rotors I am used to are fully floating, as are the Brembo rotors on my GT-R that come from the factory.

0Todd TCE

I'll elaborate if you like. To the point of it being a pissing match which is of course point less...

I'm not an engineer for them as you know but produce many custom kits, many of them direct referrals from them. And if you truly look deep into the current catalog you'd find a good half dozen factory kits which got their roots here in my shop over the years. I've always "engineered, designed, produced, and installed" my own parts allowing for the deviations I mentioned earlier. Those issues DO come up regardless of what brand you may have. Allowing for that simply gives the customer flexibility to adjust as needed. I can assure you the production tolerances of both my parts and theirs is well within any other suppliers as well. That being said when a custom changes out parts as mentioned before that's not always the case.

As and OEM its quite easy for GM to produce parts that (seemingly) fit without and shims. And lets be honest here; the assembly line, air too jockey could probably care less if you calipers are centered within .010" of true. It's easy; if you produce it all stem to stern it is what it is.

When a vehicle comes to my shop there's no promise that what I have to work with is all oe parts to start with. Nor will the car the finished kit/product go onto have them. Someone mentioned not enough shim; without looking to pick it apart this could be either leaving a dust plate in place or removing it. Both by choice but not by original design. Some dust plates fit to the caliper mount bosses, some behind bearings, some simply unscrew and come off- those are easy. Taking all that into account on my computer here I do put in "zero" numbers I believe to be true and correct. (I don't have a digital measuring machine as they do- way cool stuff and you see it's use in the new pdf images now)




I'm more old school and poor: digital calipers and straight edge. But I get by alright on it! At the end of the day we both take the data and "back out" a value we feel is acceptable shimming needs for potential issues. Me, I take about .050 off both the mount offset and the radial height. Peace of mind that I don't have the Monday call: my pads are 1/16" over the edge of the rotor. Something common on an lot of poorly done lug mount kits.

As for the hats and (they call register, I call centering) rings? That's easy. This is a business folks. If the same 5 x 114 (or whatever the Vette is) hat can be used on other kits, say a Solstice, but has a different center bore (bearing supplier/designer) the hat has cross fit purpose. No different than cross fitting a lot things really. Me: I have four basic offset hats. Each is 5/4 drilled with elongated holes and use register rings. Meaning I can do anything from 4 x 100 to 5 x 4.75 stud circles. And bores from 2.400 to 3.250" without having to bore or mill a thing. Ever. Pick the parts, and box them up. Does it work? I've got probably...2000 of them in service over 23 years so for the most part I'd say yes.

So why not dial in and make those hats "application specific?" You know the answer; business. If a supplier has to make fully dedicated parts for each and every vehicle (we don't on rotor right?) the carrying cost skyrocket. This is some of the stuff the others don't want you to know of course but if they run 60 hats hoping to sell 30 kits a year for your car (reality is that doesn't happen too often) their profits are all under dust or in the last 15 pieces. So who pays for that "true fit" part? You do. It's just business guys, not rocket science. Brakes, furniture, or cans of beans, nobody wants excess inventory tying up funds. Modular fit parts avoid a huge part of that. Who benefits? You do.

*BTW: Wilwood doesn't really sell hats. Huh? No, they simply list the hats that are used in all the kits on the web page. Maybe you have a project car and you need one of those but the bore is not right. The rings offer one more step of customer options. And keeps the costs down. (and you can buy the rings too- I have all of them in stock too! )

To be clear: I have NO issue with any other supplier or kit on the market. Shims or no shims. It's a free market and you design and promote what you feel is your best angle. But it's also false to assume that the design would be of any less quality also. Is a one piece wheel better than a BBS 3pc? There's a brand who is a king of modular fit parts- anyone want to take them to task for not being good enough to make a one piece wheel??

In closing (as we've beat it pretty well from my seat) for anyone who has centering issues- regardless of brand, I won't tell...I do produce (engineered washers?! lol) stainless steel shims in the following specs:

M12- .010, .015, .030 (works for 7/16 also)
M14- .015, .030
M16- .015, .030

As well as the radial shims for 3/8 studs and even some 1/2" bolt stuff. All pretty cheap so there's no excuse not to be satisfied with the fit.

Hope that helps put most of this to bed. Peace, out.

leadville1

What I don't understand is why the variation from one car to another with the shims, wouldn't Wilwood know how many shims it takes to install this kit on a C7. My point is is the Super Chevy article a reference for repeatable installations? I can't imagine tollerance changes from one Vette to another once you have it figured out.

X25

Indeed, if there were such tolerance issues, you'd not be able to bolt up an OEM Brembo kit from one car to another. OEM parts bolt up. StopTech BBKs bolt right up. Wilwood kits require shims, and sometimes even shims are not enough. This is all I know

leadville1

It would be hard to imagine an OEM like Brembo is off on their tolerances that they mass produce for GM. So in my view the install on the Super Chevy article should be a reference document for what to install and what Shims to use, unless their are tolerance issues with the Wilwood kit.