Lingenfelter C7 thermostat install.
06-12-2015, 09:05 AM
#41
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
only time i got a code was with the stock stat all drilled out, no errors relative to warm up time since.
please do note what they lingenfelter says about colder climates.
this is just a how-to install thread.
the topic of thermostat degree is highly debated and highly personal across most water cooled ICEs (not frozen water)
my car is above stock power (to which the stock cooling system was matched) so having a head start on the extra heat coming into the water seems a good idea off the bat.
-then when you notice that cars slow down when you hot lap them, it kinda backs that idea up
please do note what they lingenfelter says about colder climates.
this is just a how-to install thread.
the topic of thermostat degree is highly debated and highly personal across most water cooled ICEs (not frozen water)
my car is above stock power (to which the stock cooling system was matched) so having a head start on the extra heat coming into the water seems a good idea off the bat.
-then when you notice that cars slow down when you hot lap them, it kinda backs that idea up
06-12-2015, 09:27 AM
#42
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last summer mine was running 208-215. so far this year it doesn't go over 180.
stock radiator.
06-12-2015, 09:29 AM
#43
Melting Slicks
06-12-2015, 11:57 AM
#44
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06-12-2015, 02:05 PM
#45
Drifting
This engine would make even more power if you would put it in a room at 0 deg, and run ice water thru it while making sure the intake air was around 100 deg below zero, provided you fueled & tuned for it. Not sure how long the engine would last, but it would definitely max out power!
On the other hand, if you run it with no water, your temp gauge will read very low, but you will produce less and less power until it blows up!
Lastly, your car will get much better mileage and stay in far better condition if you pull the engine and personally push it everywhere.
06-12-2015, 02:41 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
Went to Lingenfelter web site--their C7 thermostats are unavailable at this time--called and was told thermostats are being redesigned with no ETA available for new design. Any one know of another supplier of C7 thermostats with lower opening temps than factory?
06-12-2015, 04:07 PM
#47
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about....
You won't find it because they don't add much hp if any.
Speaking of cost, that's exactly why big name shops charge people for them! Because they SELL stuff lol
As a part of a package, to keep the motor that much further away from detonation, sure I get it. You want to run as much timing as you can on a given octane but you also have people who it in traffic with their AC on then romp on it when the light changes.
But to say, buy a t-stat it will add xx hp, thats's just silly.
Speaking of cost, that's exactly why big name shops charge people for them! Because they SELL stuff lol
As a part of a package, to keep the motor that much further away from detonation, sure I get it. You want to run as much timing as you can on a given octane but you also have people who it in traffic with their AC on then romp on it when the light changes.
But to say, buy a t-stat it will add xx hp, thats's just silly.
Nobody is claiming 50 hp from a stat, but it's impossible to make good, safe, reliable power (especially on 91 octane) without it.
You could leave out the stat and run your cooling fan 100% duty cycle and melt the wires and listen to the noise....
or simply install a 160 with a more reasonable fan profile and enjoy the benefit of some increased power,
but THE PRIMARY REASON IS RELIABILITY AND SAFETY.
Its not necessarily about dyno results, its about consistency and keeping your engine from pulling timing in the heat and reducing the possibility of detonation
You shoulda got a 160 stat and a better tuner.
Nobody wants that.
Chuck CoW
06-12-2015, 04:09 PM
#48
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
You can prevent that code from popping up...
only time i got a code was with the stock stat all drilled out, no errors relative to warm up time since.
please do note what they lingenfelter says about colder climates.
this is just a how-to install thread.
the topic of thermostat degree is highly debated and highly personal across most water cooled ICEs (not frozen water)
my car is above stock power (to which the stock cooling system was matched) so having a head start on the extra heat coming into the water seems a good idea off the bat.
-then when you notice that cars slow down when you hot lap them, it kinda backs that idea up
please do note what they lingenfelter says about colder climates.
this is just a how-to install thread.
the topic of thermostat degree is highly debated and highly personal across most water cooled ICEs (not frozen water)
my car is above stock power (to which the stock cooling system was matched) so having a head start on the extra heat coming into the water seems a good idea off the bat.
-then when you notice that cars slow down when you hot lap them, it kinda backs that idea up
Chuck CoW
06-12-2015, 05:00 PM
#49
Melting Slicks
You are admitting that the engine makes more power with the 160 Tstat. This technically is power that GM stole from us in order to meet govt. emissions and mileage requirements when running government mandated testing conditions.
This engine would make even more power if you would put it in a room at 0 deg, and run ice water thru it while making sure the intake air was around 100 deg below zero, provided you fueled & tuned for it. Not sure how long the engine would last, but it would definitely max out power!
On the other hand, if you run it with no water, your temp gauge will read very low, but you will produce less and less power until it blows up!
Lastly, your car will get much better mileage and stay in far better condition if you pull the engine and personally push it everywhere.
This engine would make even more power if you would put it in a room at 0 deg, and run ice water thru it while making sure the intake air was around 100 deg below zero, provided you fueled & tuned for it. Not sure how long the engine would last, but it would definitely max out power!
On the other hand, if you run it with no water, your temp gauge will read very low, but you will produce less and less power until it blows up!
Lastly, your car will get much better mileage and stay in far better condition if you pull the engine and personally push it everywhere.
I think it would slow it down, or maybe prolong the heat soak but once it's hot it's hot.
06-12-2015, 05:02 PM
#50
Melting Slicks
Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about....
Nobody is claiming 50 hp from a stat, but it's impossible to make good, safe, reliable power (especially on 91 octane) without it.
You could leave out the stat and run your cooling fan 100% duty cycle and melt the wires and listen to the noise....
or simply install a 160 with a more reasonable fan profile and enjoy the benefit of some increased power,
but THE PRIMARY REASON IS RELIABILITY AND SAFETY.
YES SIR. You understand. Making nice power in DECEMBER is great but if it rattles, pings, and blows up in August...
You shoulda got a 160 stat and a better tuner.
Nobody wants that.
Chuck CoW
Nobody is claiming 50 hp from a stat, but it's impossible to make good, safe, reliable power (especially on 91 octane) without it.
You could leave out the stat and run your cooling fan 100% duty cycle and melt the wires and listen to the noise....
or simply install a 160 with a more reasonable fan profile and enjoy the benefit of some increased power,
but THE PRIMARY REASON IS RELIABILITY AND SAFETY.
YES SIR. You understand. Making nice power in DECEMBER is great but if it rattles, pings, and blows up in August...
You shoulda got a 160 stat and a better tuner.
Nobody wants that.
Chuck CoW
BS
06-12-2015, 06:49 PM
#51
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what you are failing to take into account is that a stock 194 thermostat BEGINS to open gradually at 194. It is fully closed at 193. It is fully open at 215-220.
A 160 is fully open at 175-180.
Do the math, as Tadge would say.....how much volume of coolant is a 160 flowing at 180? As much as the system can flow. How much is a 194 flowing at 180? ZERO.
sure, you can make "less" safe, reliable power without it.
06-12-2015, 07:15 PM
#53
Burning Brakes
Higgs Boson--I think I read in another post you were running a 160 thermostat other than a lingenfelter--if true could you tell us where you got it? I want a lower than stock thermostat to use in HPDE track days so would appreciate any info on locating one.
06-12-2015, 07:43 PM
#54
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I am running the LMR full housing/stat replacement
06-12-2015, 07:56 PM
#55
Melting Slicks
no, once it is hot, it's not hot. it will not get as hot, it will get hot more slowly, and when the conditions dictate, it will cool down more.
what you are failing to take into account is that a stock 194 thermostat BEGINS to open gradually at 194. It is fully closed at 193. It is fully open at 215-220.
A 160 is fully open at 175-180.
Do the math, as Tadge would say.....how much volume of coolant is a 160 flowing at 180? As much as the system can flow. How much is a 194 flowing at 180? ZERO.
sure, you can make "less" safe, reliable power without it.
what you are failing to take into account is that a stock 194 thermostat BEGINS to open gradually at 194. It is fully closed at 193. It is fully open at 215-220.
A 160 is fully open at 175-180.
Do the math, as Tadge would say.....how much volume of coolant is a 160 flowing at 180? As much as the system can flow. How much is a 194 flowing at 180? ZERO.
sure, you can make "less" safe, reliable power without it.
If your engine produces the same amount of waste heat and your cooling system extracts the same amount of heat the only way to change the operating temp is to change the parameters the engine is operating in. Load on the engine, ambient air, etc.
Engines NEED to be warm to make power, they need to be warm to burn fuel more completely, that's why cold start up tables are so different from operating temp tables in the tune.
I could understand living in a hot climate and wanting to stay ahead of the curve but acting like a colder t-stat allows you to make more HP is foolish and flat out wrong.
A piece of the puzzle to help your car operate in a range you want, yeah. But changing only a t-stat isn't going to allow you to make x number more hp.
A car with a stock t-star could be raced or dynod when the coolant is 175 degrees, so what? Eventually both care will reach steady state as far as heat and make the same power at that temp.
Anybody with a 160 t-stat start their car and let it idle until the temp gauge stabilizes? What temp is that?
06-12-2015, 08:10 PM
#56
Drifting
For under $50. it's a no brain mod!!!
06-12-2015, 08:16 PM
#57
Drifting
"Sorry to inform that we are aware of the issues, and the thermostats are being redesigned due to some of the issues that have come about with the first design. We work with 3 party companies to develop products such as the thermostats, and currently we haven’t been given an ETA on delivery. At this time, I would be glad send you a new thermostat when the issues have been resolved, but I just don’t know when this will be. OR, I will be glad to reimburse you for the Tstat you have purchased from us. Just let me know."
Since I replaced their 160 with one of their 170's which I luckily got before they quit shipping them, and filed down the spring end that I could see was cutting the seal, I hopefully am good to go until they get replacements re-designed and manufactured. I told them to put me on the list to replace when available.
06-12-2015, 08:19 PM
#58
I'm Batman..
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When I didn't get a reply to my e-mail on my 160 Tstat with the cut seal, I re-sent it yesterday. Here is their reply from Jeff @ Lingenfelder:
"Sorry to inform that we are aware of the issues, and the thermostats are being redesigned due to some of the issues that have come about with the first design. We work with 3 party companies to develop products such as the thermostats, and currently we haven’t been given an ETA on delivery. At this time, I would be glad send you a new thermostat when the issues have been resolved, but I just don’t know when this will be. OR, I will be glad to reimburse you for the Tstat you have purchased from us. Just let me know."
Since I replaced their 160 with one of their 170's which I luckily got before they quit shipping them, and filed down the spring end that I could see was cutting the seal, I hopefully am good to go until they get replacements re-designed and manufactured. I told them to put me on the list to replace when available.
"Sorry to inform that we are aware of the issues, and the thermostats are being redesigned due to some of the issues that have come about with the first design. We work with 3 party companies to develop products such as the thermostats, and currently we haven’t been given an ETA on delivery. At this time, I would be glad send you a new thermostat when the issues have been resolved, but I just don’t know when this will be. OR, I will be glad to reimburse you for the Tstat you have purchased from us. Just let me know."
Since I replaced their 160 with one of their 170's which I luckily got before they quit shipping them, and filed down the spring end that I could see was cutting the seal, I hopefully am good to go until they get replacements re-designed and manufactured. I told them to put me on the list to replace when available.
06-12-2015, 08:39 PM
#59
Drifting
I just rounded the entire cut end down. Took less than 4 minutes with a crappy file! If you put it together before filing it down, you will see how the spring end touches and pinches on the wide seal.
If for some reason you or others have further issues with their existing Lingenfelder T-stats, at least they stand behind them. Great customer service!!!!
06-12-2015, 08:47 PM
#60
Melting Slicks
I agree that the engine under load for an extended period of time does heat up beyond the normal operating temp, but it cools down much faster from my experiences. Also, my 2 G8's with 160 Tstats normally operate at around 175-180, even with fans re-set. My Flex with 170 runs in the low 180's. Under WOT at the strip it went up to low 190's at the end of the run, but was back to 180 or less by the time I got slowed down and on the return road. So... once it's hot, it cools down quicker and to a lower temp... Not what you claim.
For under $50. it's a no brain mod!!!
For under $50. it's a no brain mod!!!