ilivas

Turbos make more power per psi regardless of heat. By being more efficient, they can run more boost. With an efficient intercooler, under hood temps shouldn't affect it too much. My intake air temps were the same as ambient temp when I had a turbo setup on my old car.

It's like running race gas or meth... you can run more boost, but it burns cooler and safer to keep from detonating.

the benefits of a SC are cost, and instant power.

0Performance_Turbo

well a D1sc at 12 psi doesnt move the same amount of air two 6262's do at the same boost level.

compressor flow (lbs/min) is much more with twins than a single compressor. wFor example, lets say a 70mm single mid frame compressor (typical D1sc) will flow 72lbs/min at 15 psi thats roughly 720 hp worth of compressor flow ( 10lbs/min=100hp) and then you have these twin 5858's that move 55lbs/min a piece @ 15 psi thats 110lbs/min of compressor flow with two of them, so at 15 psi twin 5858's will have 1100hp worth of compressor flow.

less fuel is needed to create that kind of power at the same boost level the blower or single compressor system needs to make power.

ilivas

Are there any plans of offering different turbos? Or maybe just the kit with a t3 or t4 flanges so we can select our own turbos?

0Performance_Turbo

oh yes, there will be many upgrade options, from 5858 CEA precicions up to 6466 CEA precisions, t3/t4/v band, gt3076r-gt3586rs, with t3/t4/ v band options.

yes we can work a budget option later that will include the kit minus hard parts (turbos, gates, bov's)

ilivas

I'm definitely interested in the budget option so I can piece it together a little at a time due to budget. Maybe some twin 6265s, or GT37Rs.

For the people complaining about price, you can get some cheap T4 based journal bearing turbo or a truck turbo and still make good power to hold you over till you can get a good one.

You could use a couple of these for a budget option if you wanted.

http://www.usedturbos.net/Catalog/Ne...ig-Kahuna.html

chuntington101

Its idiotic to say system XYZ is more efficient than system ABC by simply comparing one very simple number / chart. Turbo systems are much more complex than looking at a compressor graph. Then to state its more efficient than something else is ridiculous. people seem to forget that you have a turbine on a turbo and how its performance plays into a turbo system is often missed. The fact that with a turbo, unlike a supercharger, by increasing the boost pressure you directly impact the Exhaust back pressure to manifold pressure ratio further reducing efficiency.

Now back to topic.

Performance Turbo, what the reason for going for a large intercooler in front of the rad? This is surely going to impact Engine cooling.

\Boost Monkey/

I don't understand how you can say it's crazy to state that a turbo system is more efficient than a SC system. The fact that a turbo system is more efficient is a widely known fact... How could you possibly argue against more power per boost pressure and not having to rely on engine power versus what is essentially recovering wasted energy?

Are you proposing reduced scavenging because the gasses have the turbine in the way now or something so less ability to suck the cylinders clean? I'm just tying to understand you last sentence.

10mm_

Remember that a supercharger probably takes 50+ hp to turn at these levels, so a comparable blower car is going to be behind this with similar fuel/timing/etc.


That's part of the reason you see some turbo setups last longer at "ragged edge" power levels on stock engines than blowers, the rotating assembly isn't seeing as much strain.

Unreal

Disagree. My friends that run a turbo shop do nothing but cast manifolds because they want reliable OEM quality setups. They won't do welded together kits because they want a kit that will run 100k miles no issues. There is some investment, but the issue is typically the time to get molds done, tweaked, and setup.

Unreal

See it time and time again on the Camaros with turbo kits. The turbo kits allow another 50-75rwhp before running out of fuel, because they don't have to spin a blower.

thegame

But what's more reliable and maintenance free. I'd prefer that than a higher number.

Unreal

Both are reliable and maintance free. The idea that turbos don't last or need more work is some silly thing that goes around. Better let all the industrial motors, diesels, and long haul trucking people know that turbos don't last. Cheap china junk that people hack up and throw together have given turbo systems a bad name, but a good well engineered kit, with good turbos (Garret, Borg) will last a very very long time.

thegame

why did you go blower over tt?

thegame

I know this is going to sound stupid but I'll tell you why the blower seems like a little maintenance to me. I am NOT very mechanically inclined so I have my Z51 oil changed at a local performance shop. I know the blower will also need it's oil changed. I will also need to keep buying meth which is a pain in the *** to me. My garage is too small, the car barely fits so I have no good place to store meth. I'm considering a stage 1 cam with ported heads that will make around 490rwhp N/A. I think I would be happy with that but the ECS 1500 kit in black keeps calling my name. I don't want anything crazy just 550-600rwhp that is very reliable. When my C6 was blown I didn't have many problems but I kept thinking what if a belt breaks, what if the motor blows, what if you blow the A6 trans. I'm an idiot

Unreal

Because no one makes a good kit for a c6 vette that meets my goals. APS had a decent setup but they are hard to find.

If I could go back I may do the full custom, but I would only run a kit with cast manifolds. c6s just don't have room to build a nice kit. On cars that have room, no question asked, turbos all day. If this kit fits nicely and they do cast manifolds, I would 100% do that over a SC. The turbos do everything better assuming a quality kit.

ilivas

Yep!

chuntington101

Read what I said again. I never said that turbos were more or less efficient than superchargers! What i did say was it's stupid to compare system xyz to abc of a compressor chart only! And it is.

As you increase intake manifold pressure (imp) with a turbo setup you increase the drive pressure required to drive the compressor to deliver the added air / boost. This increases exhuast manifold pressure (emp) or back pressure. Now in a really well design system you might have a 1:1 ratio between emp and imp. However in most systems you run high ratio than that.

So as you increase the boost you are often increasing emp by more than the increase in boost. This makes it harder for the engne on the exhaust stroke to empty the cylinder.

As you wind the boost on even more it becomes even harder on the exhaust stroke. This higher back pressure also increases Exhaust gas temps which isn't great on a turbo motor either.

Anyway back to topic. Performance turbo, have you any renderings of the cast manifolds?

chuntington101

Cast has the potential to be the best. They are strong, hold heat better and you can design the flow paths better than you can with tube. Look at the AMS gt-r or ARP audi kits for examples of what can be achieved.

The advantage of a tube setup is it's much quicker and easier to go from the drawing board (if it's been designed at all) to being fitted on the car. Plus it's much easier to change if needed.

Unreal, can you disclose who this company is? Do they not fancy doing a c6 kit?....

Unreal

AGP Turbo. They have zero interest in a c6 kit. Not enough market. They are doing just fine with the kits do they do make. If they did a c6 kit back in 2005 that would have been different, but there is a high cost of entry into the molds, and unless they can sell 500+ kits it isn't worth the time, and all market research indicates there is no way in hell they are selling 500+ c6 turbo kits.

slesher

Also interested in the fueling requirements for this kit. As far as I know they should be similar to sc setups in that hp range. The kit does sound interesting though.