eboggs_jkvl

Well at least I wasn't banned!

Elmer

HANNY

the oil in the intake on the C7 is there, carbon buildup is happening. I'm always up for a good debate but this is just a true fact that isn't arguable.
I took my intake off to do a supercharger at 1000 miles and the intake literally dripped oil out of it. and there was already carbon buildup on the valves. a lot of issues with that but for me getting oil on the plugs will and does eventually hurt the burn rate we are after and hurt performance. As well as cause future issues with the valve train getting damaged.
This isn't a theory or something I just came up with but a fact that's not arguable. As an A.S.E. certified master tech I do speak from experience not just "what I think" and in the big scheme of things buying a proper designed catch can will help this issue a lot. There are a lot of catch cans out there thru vendors ebay etc... but the one cospeed is talking about is far superior in "DESIGN" then all the rest I have seen.

So what's my bigger issue with all this? well, GM has done a sinfull-dumb-wrong-misguided injustice by putting in our owners manual the incorrect fill levels. That's right I said it, My 2016 manual showed a level (for not dry sump) that is at least 1 to 1.5 quarts overfilled.

Why is this an issue? well, the dealer and lube shops have books that show the oil levels. Typically oil change guys wherever you go are kinda at the bottom of the food chain and aren't really good at what they do, they follow the fill oil level recommendations and typically "fill" your car up with that much oil, if they check it after that which it would shock you some don't and if its overfilled I can tell you there rarely, rarely, rarely will drop the oil again and start over leaving your car overfilled with oil which will just end up getting sucked into the intake. sorry to tell anyone this but is the reality of lube guys.
So my recommendation is this, change your oil yourself at least once. add 5 quarts and start there adding as you need to (probably start with 7 quarts on a dry sump). This will give you the right amount you can share with your oil change guy to not overfill your ride. be safe, paul

COSPEED

HANNY, thanks for getting your order in. I will look into the clean side separator.

Roadrogue, I am not sure why the site is down for some as you see HANNY just placed an order. Please give me a call and I'll get you squared away on Monday. Thanks.

MikeLsx

Between the GDI problems, overfill problem (mine was on first oil change), and chevy dealership experience. I decided to sell my vette in 3 years. Just going to drive it and have fun for now.

of course dodge and ford`s performance V8 engines arent GDI.

Maxie2U

You say "GM has done a sinfull-dumb-wrong-misguided injustice by putting in our owners manual the incorrect fill levels. That's right I said it, My 2016 manual showed a level (for not dry sump) that is at least 1 to 1.5 quarts overfilled." and that dealers ARE overfilling by that amount.

My starement is simple. If you have your oil changed by a dealer or someone else ALWAYS immediarely check it before you leave the lot. I haven't changed my oil in 25 years and have always checked the own level before leveling. Simple.

As for catch cans...its buyer beware do your homework before buying. And if the price is too good to be true its probably a **** poor CC.

COSPEED

Good dialog here all. Have a ton of respect for someone like Paul, he definitely understands the negatives of any oil ingestion in the intake air charge as far as power and efficiency, but he also understands GDI and the unique issues that come with it. Ford and Mopar apparently have to go GDI by 2017 with all engines as well, (at least that's the word on the S.A.E. discussions) so this era will have come to a close, and GDI will be the only option.

I foresee more and more education on this coming to automotive tech training in the near future as well, and as more become educated there will be a large backlash with less wanting to give up their port injection vehicle, but they are here to stay. Also, a ton of science goes into the design of a proper air/oil separation system, and to date most are just "thoughts" of what would work. This is the reason for these threads. Education and intelligent discussion of all that's involved.

Cheers all! Jason

MikeLsx

Like you said before. the next generation GDI engines will have better catch can like systems. The c7 LT1 still faces the same GDI problems from when they first came out. thats why I decided to sell in a few years and either pick up a viper (car i been wanting) or buy the new c8 corvette with updated system.

vettetwo

The oil level issue with the dry sump has been discussed repeatedly since the first 2014's were delivered. Are you now suggesting the wet sump has also been incorrectly spec'd at 7 quarts?

What do you base your theory that the correct amount of oil for the wet sump LT1 introduced in 2014 is 5 quarts?

The previous generation LT1 had a oil capacity of 5 quarts, but the use of the LT1 name did not bring along any of the specifications of the previous generation.

I change my own oil and filling with 7 quarts will bring the oil level to the full mark on the dipstick. I prefer to fill with 6.5 quarts which shows 1/2 quart low on the dipstick and that is where it remains until the next oil change.

Is your theory of over-fill for the wet sump leading to the conclusion that filling with only 5 quarts will eliminate the need for catch cans?

COSPEED

Good video I found. Not completely accurate as they are making assumptions that the latest changes have corrected the issue when we see in person they have not, but still full of great accurate info as well:

eboggs_jkvl

Still get the Apache screen. I guess I am banned after all.


Elmer

COSPEED

Here are the results at 20K miles on a 2015 wetsump car that was broken in hard (properly) and factory oil drained at less than 500 miles and only full synthetic run (the DEXOS blend results in worse coking than full syn) and no mods on the car period.

Performed before and after dyno results to show the degradation in power from the intake valve coking:



Owner is now going to run another 20k miles with CoSPeed system installed and repeat all at 40k miles.

The more actual examples like this we can show, the better we can all see the real World actual effects and not just blindly believe what were told.

Higgs Boson

Dates and location of dyno runs?

Altitude, temp, humidity, DA, correction factors?

This doesn't really say anything, sorry to say. The power curves are 15% of the needed information....

This looks like a CAI vendor sales dyno ad.

SnowyATX

Yep

Warship2k15

Lol.

I'm the one that provided the car and witnessed the carbon buildup on the valves and have pictures of it.

To give you some background.im an aircraft tech/engineer for the last 29 years.I personally have nothing to gain or lose based upon any of this.
Heck you can paint your car purple with pink polka dots and I could care less.

I simply took my car over because I wanted to see what is actually happening to it.

Is there actual carbon buildup??
Not what my mothers cousins uncles said.
And if you don't believe me pull a intake for yourself and see takes a whole 20min to do.

And I can say without a doubt that YES there is.

And Higgs I have looked at lots of your threads and you are very knowledgable.

Do you really believe that carbon buildup on a valve will not affect flow??

Or are you just disagreeing with the amount??

Ps I installed a catch can and am thinking it will eliminate most of the buildup but I am in no way willing to say it will until it actually does.The theory makes perfect sense but I don't state things just on beliefs.

Example: they asked me if off idle had improved on another thread and my response was that I didn't know because I hadn't driven it enough yet.

Higgs Boson

My argument is that a catch can isn't going to make a big difference even if it's catching oil.

I've paid a lot of money for a lot of catch cans on quite a few cars and did not find they made a difference.

I've even had a couple cars that did not have an issue, dry intake manifold, installed one anyways and it caught oil, lol.

Catch cans don't have a significant impact and the juice ain't worth the squeeze.

Putting one on the car triggers the reward function in the brain. Sense of accomplishment, did it yourself, feels like it will help....use the 200 to take your wife to dinner, the dopamine release will be even bigger!

Warship2k15

I understand your position.
Time will tell.
I will be happy to give an unbiased report when it gets some more miles on it .

Once again the point for me is to see what's actually happening.
Not to sell or premote anything.I have no agenda and am keeping an open mind.

I'm doing it for my own experience and will report whatever way it turns out.
If it works good and no carbon buildup then I will say so.
And if it doesn't then I will report that also.

I think everyone on here should want the info whichever way it turns out.
And I don't really know of a better way to do it then having someone who isn't going to make a dime off it check it out and report what is actually happening.

COSPEED

Higgs is correct in that 99% of the "catchcans" on the market will have little impact as they only trap a small portion of the oil and other contaminates that are baking onto the valves, etc. BUT, that is why the long term testing of the very few that actually DO trap all, or nearly all of these compounds show they do stop most (not all as the EGR emulation of valve timing events allows some back-fill of burnt gasses to make contact with the backsides of the valves and this will always result in some build-up) and the consumer needs to be aware of that. Have a can you think is good? Install a CoSpeed dual valve inline behind it and see for sure. In most cases the CoSpeed or Elite E2-X will trap as much or more AFTER the first can did it's best job. Then do the test in reverse for the same amount of miles and see almost nothing gets past the 2 mentioned here. These are both based off of this design and improved even further as this test:

http://themustangsource.com/forums/f...rt-2-a-532449/

Higgs is one of the smartest on the forum period, but his experience apparently has only been with the ineffective cans, and because of this he has made the assumption all are worthless when it is only 99% of them.

There is no denying the results of all the LT1 and LT4 owners running these systems and sharing the results they are that these have stopped all, or nearly all of this ingestion.

So that is like trying one or two CAI and seeing no gains and making the statement "None add power" when we all know there are several great CAI's out there.

Or driving one corvette with issues and deciding ALL have issues.

And were willing to spend this $ (not cheap for all that was done to get this example) to show actual results instead of "sales pitches" like most. Have yet to see any vendor go through a fraction of what we do. Remember, the argument before this was "There is no effect from the coking" as Tadge on down has claimed. So now it is proven like this it is "no can will prevent this" when we have shown dozens of examples these systems do.

COSPEED

Oh, for Higgs:

Temps at first base runs were in Morning at mid 70's. By the after runs it was in the high 80's and low 90's with high humidity. Correction factor was SAE for accuracy. So if there is any error it is there could have been even more power loss regained.

I have a challenge to anyone that doubts this, do this yourself and see personally. There are videos and step by step DIT instructions to perform a manual intake valve cleaning. You just need to use the same dyno, same correction factor, and same day with as close to the same temps as possible out. Then we can see more examples. That is the way I would approach it f coming from the skeptic side of this.

Maxie2U

Do you have any DATA and/or documentation, testing that backs up your "Catch cans don't have a significant impact" statement?

Just asking....

Maxie2U

I just drained my CC and removed 3 tablespoons (1.5 oz) of oil. I would say there was another .5 oz of oil coating the bottom of the CC after draining. Mileage between CC drain = 800 miles.

One point of interested: before I installed my CC @ 500 total miles the exhaust tips got "dirty" fairly quickly. Since CC installation the tips stay really clean. Don't know if the two are connected?