A8 first time at track runs 10.8's
07-06-2015, 11:55 PM
#41
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for the update. I'll get the rule and show them next time if I get questioned.
The two local tracks I ran on Sunday don't care about the rule-- it's up to the owner and if he allows it. Since the top is removable they consider it a T-top or removable top which requires a roll bar
Ubly is a IHRA track.
Lapeer is the same.
Lapeer didn't care about the update for newer cars they state "All vehicles running 11.50 in the1/4 or7.30 in the 1/8 mi. or faster must have a .6 roll bar and shoulder harness and a trans blanket. Driver must also be wearing a protective jacket."
IHRA update
"This group is limited to any unaltered 2008 or newer foreign or domestic, production type automobile or truck that is street driven with proof of registration, vehicle insurance with valid license plates. These vehicles are limited to street events, test & tune and select import events. Competition in the facilities normal weekly ET bracket series under these parameters is prohibited.
These vehicles may run provided all of the criteria listed within this section is verified prior to participation. Unaltered 2008 OEM model year and newer production cars running slower than 10.00 and 135 mph do not have to meet the requirements and specifications for the Summit Sportsman ET safety rules except for the following: Convertibles and T-top entries must meet the minimum specifications listed in ET Bracket section for roll bar and roll cage requirement."
They lost my business and I'll just race at Milan.
Milan was where I ran my best and it's a NHRA track that hooks. I didn't have any issues there at all.
At least for the C7/Z06 and some others, I think.The two local tracks I ran on Sunday don't care about the rule-- it's up to the owner and if he allows it. Since the top is removable they consider it a T-top or removable top which requires a roll bar
Ubly is a IHRA track.
Lapeer is the same.
Lapeer didn't care about the update for newer cars they state "All vehicles running 11.50 in the1/4 or7.30 in the 1/8 mi. or faster must have a .6 roll bar and shoulder harness and a trans blanket. Driver must also be wearing a protective jacket."
IHRA update
"This group is limited to any unaltered 2008 or newer foreign or domestic, production type automobile or truck that is street driven with proof of registration, vehicle insurance with valid license plates. These vehicles are limited to street events, test & tune and select import events. Competition in the facilities normal weekly ET bracket series under these parameters is prohibited.
These vehicles may run provided all of the criteria listed within this section is verified prior to participation. Unaltered 2008 OEM model year and newer production cars running slower than 10.00 and 135 mph do not have to meet the requirements and specifications for the Summit Sportsman ET safety rules except for the following: Convertibles and T-top entries must meet the minimum specifications listed in ET Bracket section for roll bar and roll cage requirement."
They lost my business and I'll just race at Milan.
Milan was where I ran my best and it's a NHRA track that hooks. I didn't have any issues there at all.
07-07-2015, 12:08 AM
#42
I think a lot plays into the LIABILITY the track owner faces. If there is a wreck and the car was a sub 11's car and it had no cage, and the person is hurt or killed, lawyers will go for the throat of the track owner.
Litigation is the biggest fear and problem and there are plenty of lawyers who will take on such cases.
So I wouldn't fault the track. They are just going by the rules and to reduce their liability.
I can guarantee you "if" a crash at Milan or a track like it that allowed them to run without a cage and the track gets sued, they will change their policy. It's sad but the reality of a litigious society we live in.
Litigation is the biggest fear and problem and there are plenty of lawyers who will take on such cases.
So I wouldn't fault the track. They are just going by the rules and to reduce their liability.
I can guarantee you "if" a crash at Milan or a track like it that allowed them to run without a cage and the track gets sued, they will change their policy. It's sad but the reality of a litigious society we live in.
Last edited by ViewSonic; 07-07-2015 at 12:12 AM.
07-07-2015, 04:15 AM
#43
Instructor
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I think a lot plays into the LIABILITY the track owner faces. If there is a wreck and the car was a sub 11's car and it had no cage, and the person is hurt or killed, lawyers will go for the throat of the track owner.
Litigation is the biggest fear and problem and there are plenty of lawyers who will take on such cases.
So I wouldn't fault the track. They are just going by the rules and to reduce their liability.
I can guarantee you "if" a crash at Milan or a track like it that allowed them to run without a cage and the track gets sued, they will change their policy. It's sad but the reality of a litigious society we live in.
Litigation is the biggest fear and problem and there are plenty of lawyers who will take on such cases.
So I wouldn't fault the track. They are just going by the rules and to reduce their liability.
I can guarantee you "if" a crash at Milan or a track like it that allowed them to run without a cage and the track gets sued, they will change their policy. It's sad but the reality of a litigious society we live in.
07-07-2015, 10:35 AM
#44
Race Director
Pretty much every track has drivers sign the waiver. If you die, it's not the tracks fault. The driver assumes all responsibility.
07-07-2015, 06:33 PM
#45
The signed waiver REDUCES the track owners liability but it does NOT eliminate it. They can still be sued for some type of negligence from injuries or death sustained while at the track.
That is why track owners take on huge insurance premiums even with waiver forms. Any lawyer will tell you that a signed waiver does not fully protect you against a lawsuit.
That is why those NHRA/IHRA tracks that do not enforce the rules as stipulated by NHRA/IHRA for safety regulations are opening themselves up to litigation. As long as nobody ever gets hurt/killed, then the can go on for years without any problems. But the day that someone running 10.40's in a 2008+ targa top Corvette gets hurt or killed, that is when the track owners will regret it once they get served with a lawsuit.
Don't blame or get angry at the track for enforcing the rules. They are doing what is legally prudent to do.
You might be responsible and a safe drag racer but it's the 20-year old idiot in the lane next to you in his garage modded Toyota Supra that loses control and comes into your lane and takes you out in the process.
Last edited by ViewSonic; 07-07-2015 at 06:38 PM.
07-07-2015, 06:58 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
The signed waiver REDUCES the track owners liability but it does NOT eliminate it. They can still be sued for some type of negligence from injuries or death sustained while at the track.
That is why track owners take on huge insurance premiums even with waiver forms. Any lawyer will tell you that a signed waiver does not fully protect you against a lawsuit.
That is why those NHRA/IHRA tracks that do not enforce the rules as stipulated by NHRA/IHRA for safety regulations are opening themselves up to litigation. As long as nobody ever gets hurt/killed, then the can go on for years without any problems. But the day that someone running 10.40's in a 2008+ targa top Corvette gets hurt or killed, that is when the track owners will regret it once they get served with a lawsuit.
Don't blame or get angry at the track for enforcing the rules. They are doing what is legally prudent to do.
You might be responsible and a safe drag racer but it's the 20-year old idiot in the lane next to you in his garage modded Toyota Supra that loses control and comes into your lane and takes you out in the process.
That is why track owners take on huge insurance premiums even with waiver forms. Any lawyer will tell you that a signed waiver does not fully protect you against a lawsuit.
That is why those NHRA/IHRA tracks that do not enforce the rules as stipulated by NHRA/IHRA for safety regulations are opening themselves up to litigation. As long as nobody ever gets hurt/killed, then the can go on for years without any problems. But the day that someone running 10.40's in a 2008+ targa top Corvette gets hurt or killed, that is when the track owners will regret it once they get served with a lawsuit.
Don't blame or get angry at the track for enforcing the rules. They are doing what is legally prudent to do.
You might be responsible and a safe drag racer but it's the 20-year old idiot in the lane next to you in his garage modded Toyota Supra that loses control and comes into your lane and takes you out in the process.
07-07-2015, 07:37 PM
#47
Couple things if they wrote up their waivers properly they should basically be taking all liability off them selves. Then if there is a supra racing you, and he has all the legal requirements wouldn't you sue/ make a claim against the owner of the other car not the track? I'm not really sure but I would think the track isn't liable for bad drivers.
Anyone involved in the crash can be sued. The track owner can be sued simply based on the fact that they allowed this vehicle to race against you. If they were a "bad driver" (drivers fault) then they should have not been allowed to race (track owners fault) and/or if the car was not safe (track owners fault) it should not have been allowed to race down the track.
I knew of a case of someone get hit by a car going into the staging lanes and the track owner and car driver both got sued. In the end the track owner had to pay out $100,000 and the driver of the car did not have to pay anything. It was deemed by the courts that the track owner had failed to properly illuminate the staging lanes and to keep people from entering into those lanes and therefore they got run over.
Track owners barely make any money unless they host major NHRA or IHRA national events. Otherwise the "test and tune" days, they are barely breaking even. That is why so many tracks go out of business. The cost to maintain and insure the track is insane. That is why it gets me angry when these people show up to race their cars and don't want to pay the $30 to do so. They think it's "too expensive"
If they only realized that costs to run that track. They should rejoice in the fact that they can test and tune for $30 and not $100 per night.I've seen idiot track owners let motorcycles run alongside cars down the 1/4 mile track.
Last edited by ViewSonic; 07-07-2015 at 07:40 PM.
07-07-2015, 08:34 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
Anyone involved in the crash can be sued. The track owner can be sued simply based on the fact that they allowed this vehicle to race against you. If they were a "bad driver" (drivers fault) then they should have not been allowed to race (track owners fault) and/or if the car was not safe (track owners fault) it should not have been allowed to race down the track.
I knew of a case of someone get hit by a car going into the staging lanes and the track owner and car driver both got sued. In the end the track owner had to pay out $100,000 and the driver of the car did not have to pay anything. It was deemed by the courts that the track owner had failed to properly illuminate the staging lanes and to keep people from entering into those lanes and therefore they got run over.
Track owners barely make any money unless they host major NHRA or IHRA national events. Otherwise the "test and tune" days, they are barely breaking even. That is why so many tracks go out of business. The cost to maintain and insure the track is insane. That is why it gets me angry when these people show up to race their cars and don't want to pay the $30 to do so. They think it's "too expensive" If they only realized that costs to run that track. They should rejoice in the fact that they can test and tune for $30 and not $100 per night.
I've seen idiot track owners let motorcycles run alongside cars down the 1/4 mile track.
I knew of a case of someone get hit by a car going into the staging lanes and the track owner and car driver both got sued. In the end the track owner had to pay out $100,000 and the driver of the car did not have to pay anything. It was deemed by the courts that the track owner had failed to properly illuminate the staging lanes and to keep people from entering into those lanes and therefore they got run over.
Track owners barely make any money unless they host major NHRA or IHRA national events. Otherwise the "test and tune" days, they are barely breaking even. That is why so many tracks go out of business. The cost to maintain and insure the track is insane. That is why it gets me angry when these people show up to race their cars and don't want to pay the $30 to do so. They think it's "too expensive"
If they only realized that costs to run that track. They should rejoice in the fact that they can test and tune for $30 and not $100 per night.I've seen idiot track owners let motorcycles run alongside cars down the 1/4 mile track.
07-07-2015, 11:05 PM
#49
Team Owner
Member Since: Apr 2001
Location: Elmhurst, IL (West Suburb of Chicago) & Home of MEGA Horsepower
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St. Jude Donor '06
Anyone involved in the crash can be sued. The track owner can be sued simply based on the fact that they allowed this vehicle to race against you. If they were a "bad driver" (drivers fault) then they should have not been allowed to race (track owners fault) and/or if the car was not safe (track owners fault) it should not have been allowed to race down the track.
I knew of a case of someone get hit by a car going into the staging lanes and the track owner and car driver both got sued. In the end the track owner had to pay out $100,000 and the driver of the car did not have to pay anything. It was deemed by the courts that the track owner had failed to properly illuminate the staging lanes and to keep people from entering into those lanes and therefore they got run over.
Track owners barely make any money unless they host major NHRA or IHRA national events. Otherwise the "test and tune" days, they are barely breaking even. That is why so many tracks go out of business. The cost to maintain and insure the track is insane. That is why it gets me angry when these people show up to race their cars and don't want to pay the $30 to do so. They think it's "too expensive" If they only realized that costs to run that track. They should rejoice in the fact that they can test and tune for $30 and not $100 per night.
I've seen idiot track owners let motorcycles run alongside cars down the 1/4 mile track.
I knew of a case of someone get hit by a car going into the staging lanes and the track owner and car driver both got sued. In the end the track owner had to pay out $100,000 and the driver of the car did not have to pay anything. It was deemed by the courts that the track owner had failed to properly illuminate the staging lanes and to keep people from entering into those lanes and therefore they got run over.
Track owners barely make any money unless they host major NHRA or IHRA national events. Otherwise the "test and tune" days, they are barely breaking even. That is why so many tracks go out of business. The cost to maintain and insure the track is insane. That is why it gets me angry when these people show up to race their cars and don't want to pay the $30 to do so. They think it's "too expensive"
If they only realized that costs to run that track. They should rejoice in the fact that they can test and tune for $30 and not $100 per night.I've seen idiot track owners let motorcycles run alongside cars down the 1/4 mile track.
Which one is it, I'm just curious.
Last edited by Mopar Jimmy; 07-07-2015 at 11:16 PM.
07-08-2015, 01:11 AM
#50
I am an insurance defense litigation Attorney with over 25 years of experience. As such, I can tell that you really know what your talking about and I would surmise that you are either (1.) a Personal Injury Attorney (most likely representing defendants like myself), (2.) or in the insurance liability business, (3.) or a smart businessman who has experience working with race tracks or (4.) or known of the above but are obviously a very smart person who has a lot of knowledge on the topic that you are discussing?
Which one is it, I'm just curious.
Which one is it, I'm just curious.
07-13-2015, 05:01 AM
#52
Instructor
Thread Starter
Added Videos from PDR--- They are off 2 tenths compared to the timeslips.
10.84 video with timeslips 7/1/15
10.911 video from the following weekend 7/8/15
10.84 video with timeslips 7/1/15
10.911 video from the following weekend 7/8/15
Last edited by enufpwr; 07-14-2015 at 12:05 AM.