Are track heat issues only when running all out?
10-09-2015, 01:36 PM
#1
Are track heat issues only when running all out?
I am in Florida and will be going to Palm Beach International Raceway. But with 650 horsepower I just might not be driving as hard as Randy Probst (: Especially will be decelerating very early for turns. So for a track without a lot of long straights and conservative driving, in Florida, am I likely to experience issues or is it just too unpredictable from one car to the next?
10-09-2015, 01:45 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
For the most part, most of the issues do occur when running all out. You should be fine if you aren't going all out, but even if you were, a good way to manage the heat would be to take a cool down lap in between hot laps and stay in the mid range of the rpm (unless its a straight) since this car has enough torque that you can pull quick lap times w/o redlining every shift.
10-09-2015, 02:09 PM
#3
If you go with an M7 transmission, you are unlikely to have issues unless you are a pretty solid driver, and running the car very hard. Driving style has a lot to do with it - but the M7's seem to do pretty well.
The A8 doesn't take as much to overheat, but as stated above, short shifting can make a significant difference. Lots of people are running their A8's without overheating, but it does seem to be more likely and inconsistent.
The A8 doesn't take as much to overheat, but as stated above, short shifting can make a significant difference. Lots of people are running their A8's without overheating, but it does seem to be more likely and inconsistent.
10-09-2015, 02:26 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
Let it be mentioned that the overheaters yell loudly, while the ones who don't simply go on about their business. In my track times thread, you'll notice that of all the track times listed, 10% at best have experienced any issue. It's also been revealed that people overheating were using a/c on the track, allowing the A8 to be in "D", or were in ambient temps that really made the car have to do its work.
That's not to say these cars couldn't use more cooling, but in all fairness, according to Tadge the cars cooling system was designed around an 86F ambient benchmark. By all indications, if you're tracking in conditions below 86F (WITH A PROPERLY PREPPED CAR PER THE MANUAL), you should be ok (well supported by the users in the track times thread). Granted, high humidity environments could alter that number slightly. In the end, plenty of people have A LOT of track days on these cars with no problems.
That's not to say these cars couldn't use more cooling, but in all fairness, according to Tadge the cars cooling system was designed around an 86F ambient benchmark. By all indications, if you're tracking in conditions below 86F (WITH A PROPERLY PREPPED CAR PER THE MANUAL), you should be ok (well supported by the users in the track times thread). Granted, high humidity environments could alter that number slightly. In the end, plenty of people have A LOT of track days on these cars with no problems.
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10-09-2015, 03:35 PM
#5
Instructor
I'm in Florida and ran my m7 Z06 at Sebring this summer, 94 degree temps. Did 4 x 20 minute sessions with no over heating. That said, I'm not Randy either and am just out to enjoy the car driving 7 or 8 out of 10 most of the time.
10-09-2015, 04:14 PM
#6
Let it be mentioned that the overheaters yell loudly, while the ones who don't simply go on about their business. In my track times thread, you'll notice that of all the track times listed, 10% at best have experienced any issue. It's also been revealed that people overheating were using a/c on the track, allowing the A8 to be in "D", or were in ambient temps that really made the car have to do its work.
That's not to say these cars couldn't use more cooling, but in all fairness, according to Tadge the cars cooling system was designed around an 86F ambient benchmark. By all indications, if you're tracking in conditions below 86F (WITH A PROPERLY PREPPED CAR PER THE MANUAL), you should be ok (well supported by the users in the track times thread). Granted, high humidity environments could alter that number slightly. In the end, plenty of people have A LOT of track days on these cars with no problems.
That's not to say these cars couldn't use more cooling, but in all fairness, according to Tadge the cars cooling system was designed around an 86F ambient benchmark. By all indications, if you're tracking in conditions below 86F (WITH A PROPERLY PREPPED CAR PER THE MANUAL), you should be ok (well supported by the users in the track times thread). Granted, high humidity environments could alter that number slightly. In the end, plenty of people have A LOT of track days on these cars with no problems.
10-09-2015, 04:24 PM
#7
Instructor
Try to keep up your momentum up and as suggested, you don't need to use all the revs all the time to get a fast time with 600 lb/ft of torque available!
It has been demonstrated my me and others that RPMs over 6,000 can be mapped to rising coolant and oil temps..Use the redline only when its paying off in better times and don't over slow to 2nd gear in a 3rd gear turn!
Have fun eyes up!!
10-09-2015, 04:29 PM
#8
I am in Florida and will be going to Palm Beach International Raceway. But with 650 horsepower I just might not be driving as hard as Randy Probst (: Especially will be decelerating very early for turns. So for a track without a lot of long straights and conservative driving, in Florida, am I likely to experience issues or is it just too unpredictable from one car to the next?
If you're experienced, you can really push it at PBIR... especially even so on the lengthy 8/10ths mile back straight. As long as you exit out of turn 8 with good momentum, you can even hit 150+ mph before braking hard for turn 10 (a decreasing radius turn).
As far as cooling, watch your elevated Oil temps but I haven't had grave issues at PBIR with mine and I have tracked my M7 Z06 there 4x already in the advanced group. I did witness a few A8's have elevated trans temps (2 Z51's and 1 Z06) and they were in Intermediate class.
Although PBIR is hard on your left tires (due to mostly right turns since there are fewer left turns), I like that track since it's technical and challenges your patience and driving lines. The front straight is also fun since you can gain time if you connect well thru slalom turns 1-2.
Last edited by C7_Z06; 10-09-2015 at 11:10 PM. Reason: Typos
10-09-2015, 04:39 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
When are you going to PBIR? I'm planning to be there on 10/22 Thurs night with The HPDE. If you're there at the same event, look for me. And if you haven't tracked there yet let me know I can guide you.
If you're experienced, you can really push it at PBIR... especially even so on the lengthy 8/10ths mile back straight. As long as you exit out of turn 8 with good momentum, you can even hit 150+ mph before braking hard for turn 10 (a decreasing radius turn).
As far as cooling, watch your elevated Oil temps but I haven't had grave issues at PBIR with mine and I have tracked my M7 Z06 there 4x already in the advanced group. I did witness a few A8's have elevated trans temps (2 Z51's and 1 Z06) and they were in Intermediate class.
Although PBIR is hard on your left tires (due to mostly right turns since there are fewer left turns), I like that track since it's technical and challenges your patience and driving lines. The front straight is also fun since you can gain time of you connect well thru slalom turns 1-2.
If you're experienced, you can really push it at PBIR... especially even so on the lengthy 8/10ths mile back straight. As long as you exit out of turn 8 with good momentum, you can even hit 150+ mph before braking hard for turn 10 (a decreasing radius turn).
As far as cooling, watch your elevated Oil temps but I haven't had grave issues at PBIR with mine and I have tracked my M7 Z06 there 4x already in the advanced group. I did witness a few A8's have elevated trans temps (2 Z51's and 1 Z06) and they were in Intermediate class.
Although PBIR is hard on your left tires (due to mostly right turns since there are fewer left turns), I like that track since it's technical and challenges your patience and driving lines. The front straight is also fun since you can gain time of you connect well thru slalom turns 1-2.
10-09-2015, 04:43 PM
#10
Race Director
Let it be mentioned that the overheaters yell loudly, while the ones who don't simply go on about their business. In my track times thread, you'll notice that of all the track times listed, 10% at best have experienced any issue. It's also been revealed that people overheating were using a/c on the track, allowing the A8 to be in "D", or were in ambient temps that really made the car have to do its work.
That's not to say these cars couldn't use more cooling, but in all fairness, according to Tadge the cars cooling system was designed around an 86F ambient benchmark. By all indications, if you're tracking in conditions below 86F (WITH A PROPERLY PREPPED CAR PER THE MANUAL), you should be ok (well supported by the users in the track times thread). Granted, high humidity environments could alter that number slightly. In the end, plenty of people have A LOT of track days on these cars with no problems.
That's not to say these cars couldn't use more cooling, but in all fairness, according to Tadge the cars cooling system was designed around an 86F ambient benchmark. By all indications, if you're tracking in conditions below 86F (WITH A PROPERLY PREPPED CAR PER THE MANUAL), you should be ok (well supported by the users in the track times thread). Granted, high humidity environments could alter that number slightly. In the end, plenty of people have A LOT of track days on these cars with no problems.
10-09-2015, 04:55 PM
#11
I am looking hard for an an M7 now. Put a couple thousand miles on an NSX out there but mostly prior to the track modifications. Really looking forward to both getting a Z and getting back to the track. After supercharging the NSX, it wasn't a good track car anymore. Which club are you guys driving with and are they spectator friendly?
10-09-2015, 06:33 PM
#12
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I am in Florida and will be going to Palm Beach International Raceway. But with 650 horsepower I just might not be driving as hard as Randy Probst (: Especially will be decelerating very early for turns. So for a track without a lot of long straights and conservative driving, in Florida, am I likely to experience issues or is it just too unpredictable from one car to the next?
Bill
10-09-2015, 06:53 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
If you aren't running all out you aren't producing 650 HP. That HP only comes at the peak HP rpm when you are at wide open throttle under full load. If you don't have the throttle wide open you will never produce 650 HP with that engine. If you are a novice you will not approach the peak HP number as your brain will go into survival mode and cause you to involuntarily lift your foot off the throttle long before you get to that level of performance.
Bill
Bill
Bish
10-09-2015, 06:54 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
COTA seems to definitely be hard on the car. Track design definitely plays a role in the cars ability to keep itself functional. There's a lot of variables to this heating issue. Some issues I think are due to inexperience. If you prep the car, help it help you and avoid extreme temps the car seems capable enough. Viper guys on the forums have their own battles, same with the Porsche guys. Overall they all seem to have a general ability to do what they're designed to do.
NSX supercharged...beautiful car. I'd pull the supercharger and build the motor with ITB's...the value on that puppy is only going up. I curse that I didn't buy one 5 yrs ago.
NSX supercharged...beautiful car. I'd pull the supercharger and build the motor with ITB's...the value on that puppy is only going up. I curse that I didn't buy one 5 yrs ago.
10-09-2015, 08:06 PM
#15
Race Director
COTA seems to definitely be hard on the car. Track design definitely plays a role in the cars ability to keep itself functional. There's a lot of variables to this heating issue. Some issues I think are due to inexperience. If you prep the car, help it help you and avoid extreme temps the car seems capable enough. Viper guys on the forums have their own battles, same with the Porsche guys. Overall they all seem to have a general ability to do what they're designed to do.
NSX supercharged...beautiful car. I'd pull the supercharger and build the motor with ITB's...the value on that puppy is only going up. I curse that I didn't buy one 5 yrs ago.
NSX supercharged...beautiful car. I'd pull the supercharger and build the motor with ITB's...the value on that puppy is only going up. I curse that I didn't buy one 5 yrs ago.
10-09-2015, 10:58 PM
#16
Just sold it after owning it for 25 years. the buyer was an engineer on the next gen NSX in Marysville, Ohio
10-10-2015, 10:50 AM
#17
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Add on top of that the driver has to be at wide open throttle at any specific rpm to get that max torque and max power for that rpm and you have another reduction in power and thus a large reduction in heat. If you don't have your foot on the floor all the time you aren't getting max power anywhere. The problem with most drivers is they never get the foot all the way to the floor. Novices rarely hit the floor even for a few seconds as they are scared out of their wits at how fast the car is already going. It takes time to get adjusted to the speeds and Gs pulled on a track and to convince yourself the car really will go around a corner 2 times faster than you thought it would.
Bill
10-10-2015, 11:28 AM
#18
As Bill said, if you do not drive a car up to full RPM at full load, you are not making full HP and thus not maximum heat. If you drive a car to redline every shift as required to go as fast as possible, then that will create the most heat energy and thus temperature rise. If you short shift and do not use low gears to high RPM, then you are not driving the car at its full capability and you are making less heat than if you drove it at the max.
10-10-2015, 02:21 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
Heat is a by product of Horsepower produced not the torque. Of all the power in a gallon of gas ~ 70% of it is thrown away as waste heat only 30% is useful horse power. If your power production is down by 10% the waste heat is down a huge amount.
Add on top of that the driver has to be at wide open throttle at any specific rpm to get that max torque and max power for that rpm and you have another reduction in power and thus a large reduction in heat. If you don't have your foot on the floor all the time you aren't getting max power anywhere. The problem with most drivers is they never get the foot all the way to the floor. Novices rarely hit the floor even for a few seconds as they are scared out of their wits at how fast the car is already going. It takes time to get adjusted to the speeds and Gs pulled on a track and to convince yourself the car really will go around a corner 2 times faster than you thought it would.
Bill
Add on top of that the driver has to be at wide open throttle at any specific rpm to get that max torque and max power for that rpm and you have another reduction in power and thus a large reduction in heat. If you don't have your foot on the floor all the time you aren't getting max power anywhere. The problem with most drivers is they never get the foot all the way to the floor. Novices rarely hit the floor even for a few seconds as they are scared out of their wits at how fast the car is already going. It takes time to get adjusted to the speeds and Gs pulled on a track and to convince yourself the car really will go around a corner 2 times faster than you thought it would.
Bill
Bish
10-10-2015, 03:43 PM
#20
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Bill