91 octane without ethanol or 93 with ethanol
07-30-2016, 07:07 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
91 octane without ethanol or 93 with ethanol
What would you guys run when given the choice between 91 octane without ethanol or 93 octane with 10% ethanol? I'm thinking 91 has more power per unit volume but may get cancelled out by pulling timing. Better gas mileage with the 91 but I really don't care about that. 93 will run cooler and give more timing but does the system know it needs to add more fuel because of the ethanol.
Car is 2016 A8 Z that is not tracked. My goal is to run with the most power available, you never know when you just might need it all, if there really is a difference.
I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
Car is 2016 A8 Z that is not tracked. My goal is to run with the most power available, you never know when you just might need it all, if there really is a difference.
I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
07-30-2016, 10:19 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
93 E10, no question, especially in a boosted application. Ethanol is an excellent knock quench.
07-30-2016, 12:09 PM
#4
Heel & Toe
I've noticed my C4 runs better with the e10 93. I thought the alcohol might bring up the temperature, but it doesn't and I definitely need the octane. My Vette diesels at lower rpms with less than 93. No difference in the air cooled Harley Davidson and I won't put e10 in my small engines.
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Kracka (08-01-2016)
08-01-2016, 01:52 PM
#7
What would you guys run when given the choice between 91 octane without ethanol or 93 octane with 10% ethanol? I'm thinking 91 has more power per unit volume but may get cancelled out by pulling timing. Better gas mileage with the 91 but I really don't care about that. 93 will run cooler and give more timing but does the system know it needs to add more fuel because of the ethanol.
Car is 2016 A8 Z that is not tracked. My goal is to run with the most power available, you never know when you just might need it all, if there really is a difference.
I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
Car is 2016 A8 Z that is not tracked. My goal is to run with the most power available, you never know when you just might need it all, if there really is a difference.
I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
Ethanol is a plague. It doesn't burn, it absorbs water and fuel that's been diluted with it only lasts 30 days, 60 at most before it starts degrading, separating and destroying things. I just spent $10k replacing and entire fuel system in a Delorean after leaving ethanol in it for 6 months. Its nightmare fuel. On a long enough timeline it destroys everything it touches.
We're also the only country on earth subjecting our cars to it. The rest of the world knows its garabage and won't allow it. Even the car manufacturers here have non-ethanol fuel delivered to the plant for use. They also won't allow it in boats or airplanes and farmers have non-ethanol fuel delivered so their $200k tractors actually start next season. That nonsense should be 100% ILLEGAL. Its corrupt destructive fraud.
Non-ethanol gas lasts up to two years, does no damage and gives you better mileage because it actually goes bang when it should. America only allows it out of pure ignorance. If anyone understood the what/why of how it came to be, they'd be marching in the streets with pitchforks.
Last edited by StreetLegalH2R; 08-01-2016 at 01:57 PM.
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RJ-92 (08-04-2016)
08-01-2016, 03:03 PM
#8
Ethanol is destructive garbage. The government found a way to water down fuel with corn so they can sell cheaper gas at false higher octane ratings and sell corn for the price of oil. You'll think ethanol fuel is great until your valves are hosed, fuel system is corroded with rust and varnish from the constant immersion in separated water. Or your carbs are toast. Or your fuel tank has swollen and warped. Or your valves won't seat from the layer of corroded rubber baked on to them.
Ethanol is a plague. It doesn't burn, it absorbs water and fuel that's been diluted with it only lasts 30 days, 60 at most before it starts degrading, separating and destroying things. I just spent $10k replacing and entire fuel system in a Delorean after leaving ethanol in it for 6 months. Its nightmare fuel. On a long enough timeline it destroys everything it touches.
We're also the only country on earth subjecting our cars to it. The rest of the world knows its garabage and won't allow it. Even the car manufacturers here have non-ethanol fuel delivered to the plant for use. They also won't allow it in boats or airplanes and farmers have non-ethanol fuel delivered so their $200k tractors actually start next season. That nonsense should be 100% ILLEGAL. Its corrupt destructive fraud.
Non-ethanol gas lasts up to two years, does no damage and gives you better mileage because it actually goes bang when it should. America only allows it out of pure ignorance. If anyone understood the what/why of how it came to be, they'd be marching in the streets with pitchforks.
Ethanol is a plague. It doesn't burn, it absorbs water and fuel that's been diluted with it only lasts 30 days, 60 at most before it starts degrading, separating and destroying things. I just spent $10k replacing and entire fuel system in a Delorean after leaving ethanol in it for 6 months. Its nightmare fuel. On a long enough timeline it destroys everything it touches.
We're also the only country on earth subjecting our cars to it. The rest of the world knows its garabage and won't allow it. Even the car manufacturers here have non-ethanol fuel delivered to the plant for use. They also won't allow it in boats or airplanes and farmers have non-ethanol fuel delivered so their $200k tractors actually start next season. That nonsense should be 100% ILLEGAL. Its corrupt destructive fraud.
Non-ethanol gas lasts up to two years, does no damage and gives you better mileage because it actually goes bang when it should. America only allows it out of pure ignorance. If anyone understood the what/why of how it came to be, they'd be marching in the streets with pitchforks.
No....tell us what you really think.
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cleahy100@gmail.com (08-02-2016)
08-01-2016, 03:10 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
We're also the only country on earth subjecting our cars to it. The rest of the world knows its garabage and won't allow it. Even the car manufacturers here have non-ethanol fuel delivered to the plant for use. They also won't allow it in boats or airplanes and farmers have non-ethanol fuel delivered so their $200k tractors actually start next season. That nonsense should be 100% ILLEGAL. Its corrupt destructive fraud.
Last edited by Kracka; 08-01-2016 at 03:11 PM.
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Xanthophyll (08-03-2016)
08-01-2016, 03:11 PM
#10
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St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17,'22-'23
Ethanol is destructive garbage. The government found a way to water down fuel with corn so they can sell cheaper gas at false higher octane ratings and sell corn for the price of oil. You'll think ethanol fuel is great until your valves are hosed, fuel system is corroded with rust and varnish from the constant immersion in separated water. Or your carbs are toast. Or your fuel tank has swollen and warped. Or your valves won't seat from the layer of corroded rubber baked on to them.
Ethanol is a plague. It doesn't burn, it absorbs water and fuel that's been diluted with it only lasts 30 days, 60 at most before it starts degrading, separating and destroying things. I just spent $10k replacing and entire fuel system in a Delorean after leaving ethanol in it for 6 months. Its nightmare fuel. On a long enough timeline it destroys everything it touches
We're also the only country on earth subjecting our cars to it. The rest of the world knows its garabage and won't allow it. Even the car manufacturers here have non-ethanol fuel delivered to the plant for use. They also won't allow it in boats or airplanes and farmers have non-ethanol fuel delivered so their $200k tractors actually start next season. That nonsense should be 100% ILLEGAL. Its corrupt destructive fraud.
Non-ethanol gas lasts up to two years, does no damage and gives you better mileage because it actually goes bang when it should. America only allows it out of pure ignorance. If anyone understood the what/why of how it came to be, they'd be marching in the streets with pitchforks.
Ethanol is a plague. It doesn't burn, it absorbs water and fuel that's been diluted with it only lasts 30 days, 60 at most before it starts degrading, separating and destroying things. I just spent $10k replacing and entire fuel system in a Delorean after leaving ethanol in it for 6 months. Its nightmare fuel. On a long enough timeline it destroys everything it touches
We're also the only country on earth subjecting our cars to it. The rest of the world knows its garabage and won't allow it. Even the car manufacturers here have non-ethanol fuel delivered to the plant for use. They also won't allow it in boats or airplanes and farmers have non-ethanol fuel delivered so their $200k tractors actually start next season. That nonsense should be 100% ILLEGAL. Its corrupt destructive fraud.
Non-ethanol gas lasts up to two years, does no damage and gives you better mileage because it actually goes bang when it should. America only allows it out of pure ignorance. If anyone understood the what/why of how it came to be, they'd be marching in the streets with pitchforks.
08-02-2016, 07:03 AM
#12
Ethanol is destructive garbage. The government found a way to water down fuel with corn so they can sell cheaper gas at false higher octane ratings and sell corn for the price of oil. You'll think ethanol fuel is great until your valves are hosed, fuel system is corroded with rust and varnish from the constant immersion in separated water. Or your carbs are toast. Or your fuel tank has swollen and warped. Or your valves won't seat from the layer of corroded rubber baked on to them.
Ethanol is a plague. It doesn't burn, it absorbs water and fuel that's been diluted with it only lasts 30 days, 60 at most before it starts degrading, separating and destroying things. I just spent $10k replacing and entire fuel system in a Delorean after leaving ethanol in it for 6 months. Its nightmare fuel. On a long enough timeline it destroys everything it touches.
We're also the only country on earth subjecting our cars to it. The rest of the world knows its garabage and won't allow it. Even the car manufacturers here have non-ethanol fuel delivered to the plant for use. They also won't allow it in boats or airplanes and farmers have non-ethanol fuel delivered so their $200k tractors actually start next season. That nonsense should be 100% ILLEGAL. Its corrupt destructive fraud.
Non-ethanol gas lasts up to two years, does no damage and gives you better mileage because it actually goes bang when it should. America only allows it out of pure ignorance. If anyone understood the what/why of how it came to be, they'd be marching in the streets with pitchforks.
Ethanol is a plague. It doesn't burn, it absorbs water and fuel that's been diluted with it only lasts 30 days, 60 at most before it starts degrading, separating and destroying things. I just spent $10k replacing and entire fuel system in a Delorean after leaving ethanol in it for 6 months. Its nightmare fuel. On a long enough timeline it destroys everything it touches.
We're also the only country on earth subjecting our cars to it. The rest of the world knows its garabage and won't allow it. Even the car manufacturers here have non-ethanol fuel delivered to the plant for use. They also won't allow it in boats or airplanes and farmers have non-ethanol fuel delivered so their $200k tractors actually start next season. That nonsense should be 100% ILLEGAL. Its corrupt destructive fraud.
Non-ethanol gas lasts up to two years, does no damage and gives you better mileage because it actually goes bang when it should. America only allows it out of pure ignorance. If anyone understood the what/why of how it came to be, they'd be marching in the streets with pitchforks.
08-02-2016, 12:18 PM
#13
NO. Its 85% worse. The only people who like ethanol only do so out of ignorance.
If you switch to e85 you have to enlarge everything in the pipeline becasue it takes substantially more fuel to make power. So in addition to costing a bunch of money, you'll halve your fuel range AND have to deal with the water absorbtion of ethanol. Its a con, all of it. They're selling fermented corn for the price of oil FFS. The feds stole farms, monsanto sells the corn and the two of them found a way to collude and water down gas with it. I almost burnt my house down when a carb started spraying fuel all over a hot exhaust. The cause? Ethanol had corroded the system and eaten the seals out of the bowl. This never would have happened with pure gas.
And to the guy who says Cessna is testing with it, thats hardly an endorsement. There isn't an airport in the WORLD that has ethanol at the pump becasue its both dangerous and illegal to use in aircraft for the reasons previously stated. Theres a general mythos and ignorance surrounding ethanol being promoted and perpitrated by the con men responsible. Do your own research and don't let anyone 'sum it up' for you. Not even me. That said, the more you dig you'll find that there is NO reason to put ethanol in fuel other than corruption and greed. Call around to small engine repair shops, call a Ducati or Harley dealer. Call the Honda plant in Marysville who just got 1500 gallons of ethanol-free deliviered. NOBODY that has to fix the things it destroys likes it.
There's a whole shelf in every auto parts store dedicated to negating the negative effects of ethanol from valve cleaners, fuel system cleaners to dry-gas to Sta-bil. There's an entire friggin' INDUSTRY dedicated to cleaning up the mess and trying to help you prevent future disaster.
Ethanol also burns up O2 sensors, causes elevated exhaust manifold temps and in some cases a false lean condition becasue what your emissions system is reading ain't burnt fuel. The ethanol food chain is 100% corruption top to bottom. You ever read power ratings for motorcycle engines? You notice how almost every bike has 10 more HP in other countries? Thats becasue manufacturers de-tune EVERYTHING slightly for the US market to protect their engines under warranty from the negative effects of ethanol. The AMA is petitioning the governement to withold raising the permissable level of ethanol in fuel from 10% to 15% and then 20%. The stuff is a nightmare for motors.
IT SUCKS.
If you switch to e85 you have to enlarge everything in the pipeline becasue it takes substantially more fuel to make power. So in addition to costing a bunch of money, you'll halve your fuel range AND have to deal with the water absorbtion of ethanol. Its a con, all of it. They're selling fermented corn for the price of oil FFS. The feds stole farms, monsanto sells the corn and the two of them found a way to collude and water down gas with it. I almost burnt my house down when a carb started spraying fuel all over a hot exhaust. The cause? Ethanol had corroded the system and eaten the seals out of the bowl. This never would have happened with pure gas.
And to the guy who says Cessna is testing with it, thats hardly an endorsement. There isn't an airport in the WORLD that has ethanol at the pump becasue its both dangerous and illegal to use in aircraft for the reasons previously stated. Theres a general mythos and ignorance surrounding ethanol being promoted and perpitrated by the con men responsible. Do your own research and don't let anyone 'sum it up' for you. Not even me. That said, the more you dig you'll find that there is NO reason to put ethanol in fuel other than corruption and greed. Call around to small engine repair shops, call a Ducati or Harley dealer. Call the Honda plant in Marysville who just got 1500 gallons of ethanol-free deliviered. NOBODY that has to fix the things it destroys likes it.
There's a whole shelf in every auto parts store dedicated to negating the negative effects of ethanol from valve cleaners, fuel system cleaners to dry-gas to Sta-bil. There's an entire friggin' INDUSTRY dedicated to cleaning up the mess and trying to help you prevent future disaster.
Ethanol also burns up O2 sensors, causes elevated exhaust manifold temps and in some cases a false lean condition becasue what your emissions system is reading ain't burnt fuel. The ethanol food chain is 100% corruption top to bottom. You ever read power ratings for motorcycle engines? You notice how almost every bike has 10 more HP in other countries? Thats becasue manufacturers de-tune EVERYTHING slightly for the US market to protect their engines under warranty from the negative effects of ethanol. The AMA is petitioning the governement to withold raising the permissable level of ethanol in fuel from 10% to 15% and then 20%. The stuff is a nightmare for motors.
IT SUCKS.
Last edited by StreetLegalH2R; 08-02-2016 at 12:32 PM.
08-02-2016, 12:32 PM
#14
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Member Since: Jul 2007
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NO. Its 85% worse. The only people who like ethanol only do so out of ignorance.
If you switch to e85 you have to enlarge everything in the pipeline becasue it takes substantially more fuel to make power. So in addition to costing a bunch of money, you'll halve your fuel range AND have to deal with the water absorbtion of ethanol. Its a con, all of it. They're selling fermented corn for the price of oil FFS. The feds stole farms, monsanto sells the corn and the two of them found a way to collude and water down gas with it. I almost burnt my house down when a carb started spraying fuel all over a hot exhaust. The cause? Ethanol had corroded the system and eaten the seals out of the bowl. This never would have happened with pure gas.
And to the guy who says Cessna is testing with it, thats hardly an endorsement. There isn't an airport in the WORLD that has ethanol at the pump becasue its both dangerous and illegal to use in aircraft for the reasons previously stated. Theres a general mythos and ignorance surrounding ethanol being promoted and perpitrated by the con men responsible. Do your own research and don't let anyone 'sum it up' for you. Not even me. That said, the more you dig you'll find that there is NO reason to put ethanol on fuel other than corruption and greed. Call around to small engine repair shops, call a Ducati or Harley dealer. Call the Honda plant in Marysville who just got 1500 gallons of ethanol-free deliviered. NOBODY that has to fix the things it destroys likes it.
There's a whole shelf in every auto parts store dedicated to negating the negative effects of ethanol from valve cleaners, fuel system cleaners to dry-gas to Sta-bil. There's an entire friggin' INDUSTRY dedicated to cleaning up the mess and trying to help you prevent disaster.
It also burns up O2 sensors, causes elevated exhaust manifold temps and in some cases a false lean condition becasue what your emissions system is reading ain't burnt fuel. The ethanol food chain is 100% corruption top to bottom. You ever read power ratings for motorcycle engines? You notice how almost every bike has 10 more HP in other countries? Thats becasue manufacturers de-tune things slightly for the US market to protect their engines under warranty from the negative effects of ethanol
IT SUCKS.
If you switch to e85 you have to enlarge everything in the pipeline becasue it takes substantially more fuel to make power. So in addition to costing a bunch of money, you'll halve your fuel range AND have to deal with the water absorbtion of ethanol. Its a con, all of it. They're selling fermented corn for the price of oil FFS. The feds stole farms, monsanto sells the corn and the two of them found a way to collude and water down gas with it. I almost burnt my house down when a carb started spraying fuel all over a hot exhaust. The cause? Ethanol had corroded the system and eaten the seals out of the bowl. This never would have happened with pure gas.
And to the guy who says Cessna is testing with it, thats hardly an endorsement. There isn't an airport in the WORLD that has ethanol at the pump becasue its both dangerous and illegal to use in aircraft for the reasons previously stated. Theres a general mythos and ignorance surrounding ethanol being promoted and perpitrated by the con men responsible. Do your own research and don't let anyone 'sum it up' for you. Not even me. That said, the more you dig you'll find that there is NO reason to put ethanol on fuel other than corruption and greed. Call around to small engine repair shops, call a Ducati or Harley dealer. Call the Honda plant in Marysville who just got 1500 gallons of ethanol-free deliviered. NOBODY that has to fix the things it destroys likes it.
There's a whole shelf in every auto parts store dedicated to negating the negative effects of ethanol from valve cleaners, fuel system cleaners to dry-gas to Sta-bil. There's an entire friggin' INDUSTRY dedicated to cleaning up the mess and trying to help you prevent disaster.
It also burns up O2 sensors, causes elevated exhaust manifold temps and in some cases a false lean condition becasue what your emissions system is reading ain't burnt fuel. The ethanol food chain is 100% corruption top to bottom. You ever read power ratings for motorcycle engines? You notice how almost every bike has 10 more HP in other countries? Thats becasue manufacturers de-tune things slightly for the US market to protect their engines under warranty from the negative effects of ethanol
IT SUCKS.
I would not run ethanol in tractors, lawn mowers, or even 1965 carburated corvettes either. Thankfully that's not what we are discussing here.
If someone is dumb enough to let ethanol sit in a carburator or an old car then they get what they get. In the modern car, flex fuel enabled, ethanol has proven to be cheap race gas for the last 10-15 years. Yes you have to use more of it but I don't think anyone is running E85 and letting it sit in their cars "over the winter."
The next time I plow some crops with my Z06 I'll make sure to run E0. The next time I run down the 1/4 mile I'll make sure to run ETHANOL, Nectar of the Devil!!!!
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Xanthophyll (08-03-2016)
08-02-2016, 12:40 PM
#15
So much comments you state as fact in this post are completely FALSE. We're the only country that uses is? Ever heard of Brazil? China? The US is both an importer and exporter of ethanol. Won't allow it in airplanes? Strange; Cessna has purchased plenty for testing. Posts like yours always give me a good laugh though, it reminds me of all the scare tactics and propaganda oil companies were spreading in the 90's
Tell us, how did Cessna's test go?
08-02-2016, 12:43 PM
#16
someone is stuck in 1995 rural america.... this is the MY2014+ section of a corvette forum, not Small Engine and Tractor Quarterly.
I would not run ethanol in tractors, lawn mowers, or even 1965 carburated corvettes either. Thankfully that's not what we are discussing here.
If someone is dumb enough to let ethanol sit in a carburator or an old car then they get what they get. In the modern car, flex fuel enabled, ethanol has proven to be cheap race gas for the last 10-15 years. Yes you have to use more of it but I don't think anyone is running E85 and letting it sit in their cars "over the winter."
The next time I plow some crops with my Z06 I'll make sure to run E0. The next time I run down the 1/4 mile I'll make sure to run ETHANOL, Nectar of the Devil!!!!
I would not run ethanol in tractors, lawn mowers, or even 1965 carburated corvettes either. Thankfully that's not what we are discussing here.
If someone is dumb enough to let ethanol sit in a carburator or an old car then they get what they get. In the modern car, flex fuel enabled, ethanol has proven to be cheap race gas for the last 10-15 years. Yes you have to use more of it but I don't think anyone is running E85 and letting it sit in their cars "over the winter."
The next time I plow some crops with my Z06 I'll make sure to run E0. The next time I run down the 1/4 mile I'll make sure to run ETHANOL, Nectar of the Devil!!!!
Also, how about you make an argument that isn't based on criticising me?
Last edited by StreetLegalH2R; 08-02-2016 at 12:46 PM.
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cleahy100@gmail.com (08-02-2016)
08-02-2016, 12:49 PM
#17
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Did I say I run ethanol in "classic" cars or did I say I wouldn't? Seriously, go back and read the post and let me know if you have any more "recommendations" about "dyno - storage."
Please take your "information" somewhere it might be perceived as new and somewhere it actually applies. You might as well go into a food forum where people are talking about how much they like onions and tell them all they should stay far away from onions because they are bad for cats.
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cleahy100@gmail.com (08-02-2016)
08-02-2016, 12:52 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
I dunno. I've only had access to E85 for probably 15 years now, and none of my collector cars is any worse for wear. They're also bone-stock restorations. Granted a couple of them do have stainless lines rather than mild steel. And I have a Camaro that has rubberized stainless-steel-braided AN10 lines that are OK too.
So, for all the angst, I haven't experienced any ethanol-related disasters.
As for use in current vehicles, take the highest octane you can get and burn it. The question wasn't about storage anyway, right?
So, for all the angst, I haven't experienced any ethanol-related disasters.
As for use in current vehicles, take the highest octane you can get and burn it. The question wasn't about storage anyway, right?
Last edited by davepl; 08-06-2016 at 01:45 PM.
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08-02-2016, 12:53 PM
#19
Whats even dumber is that we're all getting ripped off; they sell us watered down gas at $3 a gallon when it should only cost $1, then they tax the snot out of it as 'fuel' when its not, they elevate the price further by falsely raising octane levels, EVERY car gets substantially lower economy because of it so they get to sell MORE, then they charge taxes based on 'gas guzzlers' most of which only fail by a few MPG that wouldn't if it weren't for all the corn in their tank.
What's 10-15% of the oil industry worth to a bunch of corrupt politicians? Not to mention NO ONE would use ethanol diluted fuel if it weren't legislated. They have to FORCE it on us to get us to use it.
If you support this garbage you're only a willing participant in your own victimization.
What's 10-15% of the oil industry worth to a bunch of corrupt politicians? Not to mention NO ONE would use ethanol diluted fuel if it weren't legislated. They have to FORCE it on us to get us to use it.
If you support this garbage you're only a willing participant in your own victimization.
Last edited by StreetLegalH2R; 08-02-2016 at 12:54 PM.
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StingerZ (08-25-2016)
08-02-2016, 12:55 PM
#20
I dunno. I've only had access to E85 for probably 15 years now, and none of my collector cars is any worse for wear. They're also bone-stock restorations. Granted a couple of them do have stainless lines rather than mild steel. And I have a Camaro that has rubberized stainless-steel-braided AN10 lines that are OK too.
So, for all the angst, I haven't experiences any ethanol-related disasters.
As for use in current vehicles, take the highest octane you can get and burn it. The question wasn't about storage anyway, right?
So, for all the angst, I haven't experiences any ethanol-related disasters.
As for use in current vehicles, take the highest octane you can get and burn it. The question wasn't about storage anyway, right?