Finally talked to a Mobil 1 oil engineer
10-29-2016, 11:15 AM
#21
Like some others, I too wondered if I really should be running 5W30 in my '016 Z06 or I could bump the weight up a tad. I don't track the car at all, never will....just use it as a fun driver, a car I drive as often as the weather will allow me to. Not a "garage queen", but close to it! But, I have a feeling I'm not the only nut in the crowd! Anyway, my previous couple of cars and both my Mercedes require Mobil One 0W40. I have heard comments on the Forum that this is the European Spec for the C7 Z06. I tried every angle to find this on GOOGLE....no good. Does anyone know for sure if this is indeed the European Spec? My only reason for wanting to switch is I like the idea of the little more protection a 40 weight can provide in the summer, but in today's world that may be a little old fashion. Thanks for any help[......
FWIW I've run Mobile OW-40 on my 13 ZL1 and 06 TB SS for a couple of years now. It has higher levels of phosphorus and zinc (not as much as 15W-50) compared to Mobile 1 5W-30 and I get slightly higher oil pressure as well.
10-29-2016, 11:38 AM
#22
Supporting Vendor
Here is the issue with the oil.
At 330-350 oil temp, the bearing clearance actually gets smaller, and the oil doesnt have the shear strength to keep the crank supported by the oil, and you get bearing failure, and ultimately catastrophic engine failure.
Why do the bearings get tighter clearance wise?
Because We are not allowed to import lead to europe, and that includes the inside of an engine, wheel weights too ( they are not your normal lead wheel weight)
SO, GM engineers had to use a different bearing material in the Z06, which is why they recommend using this oil, and only this oil.
In this case, its a platform only deal. Much like the hood restraints on the blower hat, for european crash standards.
At 330-350 oil temp, the bearing clearance actually gets smaller, and the oil doesnt have the shear strength to keep the crank supported by the oil, and you get bearing failure, and ultimately catastrophic engine failure.
Why do the bearings get tighter clearance wise?
Because We are not allowed to import lead to europe, and that includes the inside of an engine, wheel weights too ( they are not your normal lead wheel weight)
SO, GM engineers had to use a different bearing material in the Z06, which is why they recommend using this oil, and only this oil.
In this case, its a platform only deal. Much like the hood restraints on the blower hat, for european crash standards.
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10-29-2016, 12:03 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
It's not just the 'weights' guys, it's the additives. Mobil 1 is cheap and I for one don't see the need to second guess the GM engineers when my car has a 100K engine warranty. Hence I'll switch between the 5W-30 and 15W-50 until such time as GM states that a different oil is approved. YMMV.
Bish
Bish
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charliebrown266 (03-18-2017)
10-29-2016, 12:57 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
I'm running 15/50 all the time. Just gotta take some time to get some temp in the oil.
My race car has a STRICT procedure: warm the car until water temp gets up, shut'er down and let it heat soak the entire engine (like 30-45 mins) start up again and sit until oil temp comes up to spec. If oil not >150°, no deal.
On my Z, idle until I see the oil temp coming up. (the bearing tolerances are MUCH greater). If I ran it for a daily driver, I'd put an oil heater patch on the tank. Makes a world of difference. Have a little Wolverine on the race car and it's awesome...cuts the procedure time down a lot, as the oil's warm-ish at startup if plugged in night before.
Before the chatter starts about, "Oh, it's not a race car...", the warmer is <$100, not permanent and can be installed in minutes. Heck, I think I just talked myself into putting one on Z.
My race car has a STRICT procedure: warm the car until water temp gets up, shut'er down and let it heat soak the entire engine (like 30-45 mins) start up again and sit until oil temp comes up to spec. If oil not >150°, no deal.
On my Z, idle until I see the oil temp coming up. (the bearing tolerances are MUCH greater). If I ran it for a daily driver, I'd put an oil heater patch on the tank. Makes a world of difference. Have a little Wolverine on the race car and it's awesome...cuts the procedure time down a lot, as the oil's warm-ish at startup if plugged in night before.
Before the chatter starts about, "Oh, it's not a race car...", the warmer is <$100, not permanent and can be installed in minutes. Heck, I think I just talked myself into putting one on Z.
10-30-2016, 06:17 PM
#25
Team Owner
Even though this link is for a C6 Z06, the oil reservoir is the same as the C7's.
You might find this link helpful.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...h-dollars.html
You might find this link helpful.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...h-dollars.html
10-30-2016, 06:23 PM
#26
Team Owner
Here is the issue with the oil.
At 330-350 oil temp, the bearing clearance actually gets smaller, and the oil doesnt have the shear strength to keep the crank supported by the oil, and you get bearing failure, and ultimately catastrophic engine failure.
Why do the bearings get tighter clearance wise?
Because We are not allowed to import lead to europe, and that includes the inside of an engine, wheel weights too ( they are not your normal lead wheel weight)
SO, GM engineers had to use a different bearing material in the Z06, which is why they recommend using this oil, and only this oil.
In this case, its a platform only deal. Much like the hood restraints on the blower hat, for european crash standards.
At 330-350 oil temp, the bearing clearance actually gets smaller, and the oil doesnt have the shear strength to keep the crank supported by the oil, and you get bearing failure, and ultimately catastrophic engine failure.
Why do the bearings get tighter clearance wise?
Because We are not allowed to import lead to europe, and that includes the inside of an engine, wheel weights too ( they are not your normal lead wheel weight)
SO, GM engineers had to use a different bearing material in the Z06, which is why they recommend using this oil, and only this oil.
In this case, its a platform only deal. Much like the hood restraints on the blower hat, for european crash standards.
Never checked, but the new lead free bearing material might be in all GM products, no matter where they are headed.
I believe that GM used the 0W40 oil in the cars headed to Europe(long before the C7 Z06) because most(if not all) of the German cars(BMW, M-B, etc) spec'd either 5w40 or 0W40 for their cars for decades, so there was no demand for 5w30 oil in Europe, thus it was very difficult to find 5W30 for the Corvettes(whether they had a 400 HP LS2 or a 638HP LS9, or a 460 HP LT1 or a 650 HP LT4) shipped to Europe. My old 1999 M-B spec's either 0W40 or 5W40 to be used, and that's what I use in it, and I have been using 0W40 in my C6 Z06 for years(identical LS7 as was in the Z06's shipped to Europe).
Last edited by JoesC5; 10-30-2016 at 06:55 PM.
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GSpeed (10-31-2016)
10-31-2016, 12:55 PM
#27
Supporting Vendor
Yep. The 5th gen Camaro Z28 LS7, apparently had the better bearings, because they were not importing it.
10-31-2016, 07:24 PM
#28
I believe that GM used the 0W40 oil in the cars headed to Europe(long before the C7 Z06) because most(if not all) of the German cars(BMW, M-B, etc) spec'd either 5w40 or 0W40 for their cars for decades, so there was no demand for 5w30 oil in Europe, thus it was very difficult to find 5W30 for the Corvettes(whether they had a 400 HP LS2 or a 638HP LS9, or a 460 HP LT1 or a 650 HP LT4) shipped to Europe. My old 1999 M-B spec's either 0W40 or 5W40 to be used, and that's what I use in it, and I have been using 0W40 in my C6 Z06 for years(identical LS7 as was in the Z06's shipped to Europe).
The dexos2 spec is mainly for diesel engines and makes up the overwhelming majority of the market vs dexos1, the dexos1 spec is very difficult to find in any brand here.
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romandian (11-02-2016)
10-31-2016, 08:10 PM
#29
Team Owner
I live in Spain and can tell you 5W30 is everywhere, it's probably the most popular oil sold in Europe and available from Mobil 1 as well as all other brands sold here. I have a Citroen, two Opels, and my stepdaughter has a Chevy Matiz with an 800cc three cylinder...I use 5W30 in all four. Having said that, I use the European Mobil 1 0W40 in my ZR-1. The European Mobil 1 0W40 is not the same as the Mobil 1 0W40 in the USA, the European version is licensed to the dexos2 specification and is a long life oil designed to last up to 18,000 miles. My Citroen and Opels have 18,000 mile oil change intervals and all three are diesels, it's the nastiest oil I've ever changed from the standpoint of smell and staining.
The dexos2 spec is mainly for diesel engines and makes up the overwhelming majority of the market vs dexos1, the dexos1 spec is very difficult to find in any brand here.
The dexos2 spec is mainly for diesel engines and makes up the overwhelming majority of the market vs dexos1, the dexos1 spec is very difficult to find in any brand here.
Oh, and I purchase 0W40 Mobil1 European Car Formula(says so right on the 5 qt jug) oil at Walmart that I use in my C6 Z06. It is part # 120428 in a 5 qt jug. Use it in my Mercedes also.
Walmart also has a Mobil1 0W40 Advanced Full Synthetic Formula, part # 98HC64 in a 5 qt jug, that is not the same oil as the European Car Formula 0W40(that I use in my C6 Z06).
I didn't fly to Spain to purchase the six 5 qt jugs I have in my basement. Purchased at my local Walmart, right here in the good ole USA. I also have a 5 qt jug of Castrol Edge European Formula 0W40 in my basement
The 5W30- that I now available in Europe, Is that Mobil1 Full Synthetic or is it Mobil Super 3000 Formula G 5W30(not Mobil1)?
http://www.mobil.co.uk/uk-english-lc...ubricants.aspx
Last edited by JoesC5; 10-31-2016 at 11:22 PM.
10-31-2016, 08:12 PM
#30
I live in Spain and can tell you 5W30 is everywhere, it's probably the most popular oil sold in Europe and available from Mobil 1 as well as all other brands sold here. I have a Citroen, two Opels, and my stepdaughter has a Chevy Matiz with an 800cc three cylinder...I use 5W30 in all four. Having said that, I use the European Mobil 1 0W40 in my ZR-1. The European Mobil 1 0W40 is not the same as the Mobil 1 0W40 in the USA, the European version is licensed to the dexos2 specification and is a long life oil designed to last up to 18,000 miles. My Citroen and Opels have 18,000 mile oil change intervals and all three are diesels, it's the nastiest oil I've ever changed from the standpoint of smell and staining.
The dexos2 spec is mainly for diesel engines and makes up the overwhelming majority of the market vs dexos1, the dexos1 spec is very difficult to find in any brand here.
The dexos2 spec is mainly for diesel engines and makes up the overwhelming majority of the market vs dexos1, the dexos1 spec is very difficult to find in any brand here.
11-01-2016, 06:08 PM
#32
These are old ad copies that aren't relevant to this discussion since the 0W40 Mobil 1 shown is NOT what is recommended today.
Oh, and I purchase 0W40 Mobil1 European Car Formula(says so right on the 5 qt jug) oil at Walmart that I use in my C6 Z06. It is part # 120428 in a 5 qt jug. Use it in my Mercedes also.
Walmart also has a Mobil1 0W40 Advanced Full Synthetic Formula, part # 98HC64 in a 5 qt jug, that is not the same oil as the European Car Formula 0W40(that I use in my C6 Z06).
I didn't fly to Spain to purchase the six 5 qt jugs I have in my basement. Purchased at my local Walmart, right here in the good ole USA. I also have a 5 qt jug of Castrol Edge European Formula 0W40 in my basement
The 5W30- that I now available in Europe, Is that Mobil1 Full Synthetic or is it Mobil Super 3000 Formula G 5W30(not Mobil1)?
http://www.mobil.co.uk/uk-english-lc...ubricants.aspx
Walmart also has a Mobil1 0W40 Advanced Full Synthetic Formula, part # 98HC64 in a 5 qt jug, that is not the same oil as the European Car Formula 0W40(that I use in my C6 Z06).
I didn't fly to Spain to purchase the six 5 qt jugs I have in my basement. Purchased at my local Walmart, right here in the good ole USA. I also have a 5 qt jug of Castrol Edge European Formula 0W40 in my basement
The 5W30- that I now available in Europe, Is that Mobil1 Full Synthetic or is it Mobil Super 3000 Formula G 5W30(not Mobil1)?
http://www.mobil.co.uk/uk-english-lc...ubricants.aspx
This is the 0W40 Mobil 1 oil you're buying in the USA and what it looks like in Europe:
http://www.mobil1.co.uk/synthetic-en.../fs-0w-40.aspx
And it's now called Mobil 1 New Life™ 0W-40 as the link stated a name change was coming.
http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English-LC...life-0w40.aspx
This is the 0W40 Mobil 1 oil recommended by GM for Corvettes in Europe:
http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English-LC...esp-0w40.aspx#
If you look at the "Applications" and "Specs" tabs, you'll see the oil is approved to the dexos2 specification.
I'll state the fact once again, the Mobil 1 0W40 you're buying in the USA is NOT the same as the Mobil 1 0W40 in Europe recommended by GM...you would indeed have to fly to Spain in order to buy the same oil. The 0W40 Mobil 1 recommended by GM in Europe is a long life oil and while I have no idea what the exact levels of phosphorus and zinc it has, the link above for it says it has low phosphorus and zinc levels for long catalytic converter life so it would be a good bet that it's the same as the 5W30 oil recommended by GM for Corvettes in the USA (800 PPM of phosphorus and 900 PPM of zinc). The 0W40 in the USA has 1000 PPM of phosphorus and 1100 PPM of zinc as shown here:
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...guide-2016.pdf
While an extra 200 PPM doesn't seem like much, it's 25% more than the recommended oil and GM would deny a warranty claim on the catalytic converter for using the 0W40 Mobil 1 oil available in the USA.
Now for your question at the end...go to your link:
http://www.mobil.co.uk/uk-english-lc...ubricants.aspx
Then click on "car engine oil products", then click on the "Mobil 1" tab, and there you'll see the link to "Mobil 1™ ESP Formula 5W-30 " which will take you to:
http://www.mobil.co.uk/UK-English-LC...mula-5w30.aspx
You'll see the 5W30 available in Europe I'm talking about is indeed a Mobil 1 Full Synthetic. You'll also note it doesn't meet either the dexos1 or dexos2 specification.
I've lived here for over 2 years now and changed plenty of oil, I think I know what's available and what isn't. As a side note, it looks like Mobil is dropping the "European Car Formula" from the name...as soon as current stock runs out, you won't be able to buy it. They've already deleted it from their website and it's no longer on their list of "Oil Product Specs".
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...guide-2016.pdf
It appears they're combining the "European Car Formula" with the "Advanced Full Synthetic Formula" and simply calling it "Full Synthetic".
Last edited by glass slipper; 11-01-2016 at 06:22 PM.
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Mike245 (05-24-2021)
03-16-2017, 11:26 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Mobil 0w-40
it's thin. and mobil 1 runs even thinner than conventional oils of same weight (just my opinion from visual observations, pour some out and watch).
ideally you want the heaviest oil that still runs through the engine without stressing anything. for lubricity.
think of it like this. baby oil is slick but Vaseline makes things much slicker (thin vs thick)
ideally you want the heaviest oil that still runs through the engine without stressing anything. for lubricity.
think of it like this. baby oil is slick but Vaseline makes things much slicker (thin vs thick)
03-16-2017, 11:44 PM
#34
Appreciate the post, however the one thing I was looking for, was the engineers comments on running oil temps at 280-300 on track for extended periods of time. If you noticed, many of the track rats who bought the car in 15, are no longer actively tracking the car. Either they have made it street only after many problems or, had a "moment" on track and went ka~boom. By all means, if you are able to talk with him again, please do ask. With all that said (short term) it will be very interesting to see what these high oil temps do to/for engine longevity( long term)
Would 0-40w be better for these higher track temps?
PLEASE help.
03-17-2017, 12:14 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
Since there's not demonstrable benefit and there are real costs to the emissions system, I'd say stay away.
If you want to remove your cats and run high-metals oil to slow valvetrain wear I guess that's up to the reader!
03-17-2017, 03:03 PM
#36
Tech Contributor
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I too want some info around effects of these temps? Where can this be found? What are max temps recommended for track use? What temp does this oil break down and need replacing? One track session w 280-300 temps?
Would 0-40w be better for these higher track temps?
PLEASE help.
Would 0-40w be better for these higher track temps?
PLEASE help.
So far I have only seen oil temps into the mid 270s which seem to be fine to me. Far better than the 319 degrees I used to see on my C5 Z06 and low enough that the oil overheat light on my 86 wouldn't come on either, even though it ran dyno oil.
My stock C6Z would run 260 oil temp all day long at the track but I am pretty sure that 275 isn't an issue either.
Bill
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Dabigsnake (03-18-2017)
03-17-2017, 06:36 PM
#37
I was just about to ask if I could run 15w-50 all summer here in Texas. This was a good read and I think I will just stick to the 5w-30 and change out to the heavier stuff for my once a year track day.
03-17-2017, 10:48 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
It's not just the 'weights' guys, it's the additives. Mobil 1 is cheap and I for one don't see the need to second guess the GM engineers when my car has a 100K engine warranty. Hence I'll switch between the 5W-30 and 15W-50 until such time as GM states that a different oil is approved. YMMV.
Bish
Bish
03-18-2017, 12:37 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
If you are going to beat this horse do you also want to consider other brands of oil have better additive packages, and deal with high temperature better?
