ZR1 not unveiled until August?
01-17-2017, 09:51 AM
#41
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What if the camo's cars we have been seeing photo's of are not so called ZR1's, Zora's or even Zero's. What if they are nothing but a revised Z06 that will be released as a 2018 Z06 in June, and as normal, the details are not revealed until the car is ready for production.
You still can't "build" a 1LE on Chev's website...feel like there is some lag happening due to the new car sales recession/slowdown.
01-17-2017, 09:54 AM
#42
I'm surprised to see that the media keeps suggesting a DOHC motor in a C7. I just popped the hood on mine (Z51 Stingray) and the hood design looks like it was almost shrink-wrapped around the dimensions of the LT1.
The latest ZR1 images from Chris Doane show a taller hood bulge but similar valleys between the fender peaks and the hood bulge. I didn't get out a measuring tape but spend a few minutes looking under the hood of your C7 and it gets clear real fast that a DOHC wouldn't fit between the fenders let alone under the hood - you'd need a much wider hood bulge even if you could fit it between the fenders.
Engine packaging is core to the total design process so it doesn't make sense to try and fit a completely different engine package in to a C7. If Chevy is creating a new clean-sheet DOHC V8 it would be part of the C8 total design - think C5/LS1. Beefed up LT4 with 750+ HP makes much more sense for the C7 ZR1.
BTW, some folks have commented on the gap on the ZR1 hood bulge about six inches from the windshield. It occurred to me that the gap may be due to the center of the hood bulge actually being the top of an upgraded S/C. Callaway claims their S/C sticking through the hood provides cooling benefits. If so, it would make sense for Chevy to have a cosmetic heatsink as part of the top of the S/C assembly for additional cooling. Just a though as I couldn't come up with any other reason for the gap.
IMHO, if you look a the latest/clearest Doane ZR1 images it really looks like the center of the hood bulge could be a separate engine-mounted piece - or just my imagination.
The latest ZR1 images from Chris Doane show a taller hood bulge but similar valleys between the fender peaks and the hood bulge. I didn't get out a measuring tape but spend a few minutes looking under the hood of your C7 and it gets clear real fast that a DOHC wouldn't fit between the fenders let alone under the hood - you'd need a much wider hood bulge even if you could fit it between the fenders.
Engine packaging is core to the total design process so it doesn't make sense to try and fit a completely different engine package in to a C7. If Chevy is creating a new clean-sheet DOHC V8 it would be part of the C8 total design - think C5/LS1. Beefed up LT4 with 750+ HP makes much more sense for the C7 ZR1.
BTW, some folks have commented on the gap on the ZR1 hood bulge about six inches from the windshield. It occurred to me that the gap may be due to the center of the hood bulge actually being the top of an upgraded S/C. Callaway claims their S/C sticking through the hood provides cooling benefits. If so, it would make sense for Chevy to have a cosmetic heatsink as part of the top of the S/C assembly for additional cooling. Just a though as I couldn't come up with any other reason for the gap.
IMHO, if you look a the latest/clearest Doane ZR1 images it really looks like the center of the hood bulge could be a separate engine-mounted piece - or just my imagination.
01-17-2017, 12:46 PM
#44
Burning Brakes
I don't know what the car is or what it's going to be called. What I find suspect is the timing in this article. I can't imagine GM coming out with a "last hurrah" C7 in late 2017, only to come out with the C8 in 2018. Makes no sense from a marketing/budget standpoint. Spend all that money on another C7 variant so it can be obsoleted by a new generation car ONE YEAR later? Color me skeptical.
The most likely scenario (to me) that makes sense is that a high end mid-engine car comes out in 2019, the C7 continues on until 2020 or 2021.
The most likely scenario (to me) that makes sense is that a high end mid-engine car comes out in 2019, the C7 continues on until 2020 or 2021.
Another thing stated previously, all of the aero and cooling openings in the front of the test mule are certainly not necessary or desired for an N/A powerplant.
01-17-2017, 01:02 PM
#45
Conversely, it also occurred to me that the rear portion of the ZR1 hood bulge could be the piece that is part of the exposed S/C assembly with the air intake pointing to the rear enabling cold-air intake at the windshield base. It would remove the air intake mass from the front of the engine bay, helping airflow from the expected additional heat exchangers as well as improve IATs.
Well done, sir.
Perhaps they don't want to shock the Old Guard?
Another thing stated previously, all of the aero and cooling openings in the front of the test mule are certainly not necessary or desired for an N/A powerplant.
01-17-2017, 01:25 PM
#46
The C4 ZR1 was almost twice the price of the base car & sold poorly. C5 didn't have a ZR1. The C6 ZR1 came out late, & probably didn't sell well either, since GM is still selling LS9's at 10G less than an LT4 (this must be the bargain of the decade). The camo/big wing car with extra side nostrils is likely the true track capable Z06, possibly with an upgraded LT4 a la Callaway 757 or Yenko 800 hp. It hopefully won't cost that much more than the Z07 package. Disclaimer - my crystal ball probably isn't any more reliable than others.
01-17-2017, 02:52 PM
#47
01-18-2017, 06:53 AM
#48
Race Director
The ZR1 (LS9) is 25k from chevy performance.
LT4 is 15k from chevy performance.
I don't see where how many ZR1's were sold is relevant to this discussion?
LT4 is 15k from chevy performance.
I don't see where how many ZR1's were sold is relevant to this discussion?
01-18-2017, 08:19 AM
#49
Oops, I got the prices switched. I was thinking the C4 & C6 ZR1's were possibly priced too high & didn't sell well. I believe GM slowly built & used up the run of LT5's, & if they are still selling LS9's, I assume they are "left over" because the C6 ZR1's also did not sell in the numbers they expected. As the saying goes, those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat their mistakes. I don't think GM particularly wants to do that, so the "1918 ZR1" camo car may only be a Z06 with huge cooling improvements +/- an easy power upgrade with a larger supercharger, thereby keeping costs down. We are all assuming there will be a ZR1, but it may only be an option package for the Z06, rather than a separate model like the GS. It took GM over a year to get the minor cooling improvements out for MY 2017, with little information before production, so perhaps we shouldn't be surprised the "1918 ZR1" is taking so long.
01-18-2017, 08:55 AM
#50
Pro
Just my .02 on the ZR1 vs Track Z06 question.
It would be bad marketing for GM to release a "Track Pack Z06" instead of a ZR1. Looking at this from a business standpoint the C6 had a solid marketing plan. The 427 was probably a bit much but the base, Z06, GS, ZR1 model worked well.
If they released a "track pack Z06" they would probably make current Z06 owners angry (as they will have the lower tier car with the same designation) and it would be a full blown public admission that the Z06 is not a track ready car. My guess is they do not want to do this.
A ZR1 will return the "King of the Hill" and will crown the successful C7 generation. I see both the C7 and C8 being made together for a few years as well.
Flame suit on.
It would be bad marketing for GM to release a "Track Pack Z06" instead of a ZR1. Looking at this from a business standpoint the C6 had a solid marketing plan. The 427 was probably a bit much but the base, Z06, GS, ZR1 model worked well.
If they released a "track pack Z06" they would probably make current Z06 owners angry (as they will have the lower tier car with the same designation) and it would be a full blown public admission that the Z06 is not a track ready car. My guess is they do not want to do this.
A ZR1 will return the "King of the Hill" and will crown the successful C7 generation. I see both the C7 and C8 being made together for a few years as well.
Flame suit on.
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01-18-2017, 09:46 AM
#51
Just my .02 on the ZR1 vs Track Z06 question.
It would be bad marketing for GM to release a "Track Pack Z06" instead of a ZR1. Looking at this from a business standpoint the C6 had a solid marketing plan. The 427 was probably a bit much but the base, Z06, GS, ZR1 model worked well.
If they released a "track pack Z06" they would probably make current Z06 owners angry (as they will have the lower tier car with the same designation) and it would be a full blown public admission that the Z06 is not a track ready car. My guess is they do not want to do this.
A ZR1 will return the "King of the Hill" and will crown the successful C7 generation. I see both the C7 and C8 being made together for a few years as well.
Flame suit on.
It would be bad marketing for GM to release a "Track Pack Z06" instead of a ZR1. Looking at this from a business standpoint the C6 had a solid marketing plan. The 427 was probably a bit much but the base, Z06, GS, ZR1 model worked well.
If they released a "track pack Z06" they would probably make current Z06 owners angry (as they will have the lower tier car with the same designation) and it would be a full blown public admission that the Z06 is not a track ready car. My guess is they do not want to do this.
A ZR1 will return the "King of the Hill" and will crown the successful C7 generation. I see both the C7 and C8 being made together for a few years as well.
Flame suit on.
01-18-2017, 11:31 AM
#52
Pro
Maybe the "leaked" engine code sheet showing both the LT4 & a naturally aspirated DOHC engine for the Corvette car line was simply to mislead us. Without a power upgrade, the increased downforce will actually make a "track pack Z06/1918 ZR1" slower, unless cornering speed is significantly increased. The token cooling improvement for the 2017 Z06 is already an admission it wasn't really "track ready", especially with the auto tranny. Whatever it is that's coming, I hope it'll be worth the trouble they're going to, & make it cost effective too. The current Z06/Z07 is already a bit pricey.
From a sales perspective I would say the ZR1 will sell better than a track pack Z06.
I just want to see it.
01-18-2017, 11:56 AM
#53
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Maybe the "leaked" engine code sheet showing both the LT4 & a naturally aspirated DOHC engine for the Corvette car line was simply to mislead us. Without a power upgrade, the increased downforce will actually make a "track pack Z06/1918 ZR1" slower, unless cornering speed is significantly increased. The token cooling improvement for the 2017 Z06 is already an admission it wasn't really "track ready", especially with the auto tranny. Whatever it is that's coming, I hope it'll be worth the trouble they're going to, & make it cost effective too. The current Z06/Z07 is already a bit pricey.
01-18-2017, 04:24 PM
#54
Gm did the same flop with Camaro.
SS ...V8
ZL1...Supercharger "most power, longest production run, mid price point"
Z28..."427 NA light track car, least number produced, highest price"
Stingray...V8
Z06...Supercharger "most power, longest production run, mid price point"
ZR1...probably will get "LT5 530 hp NA light' carbon fiber, wheels, doors, areo 10 speed, higher price less production."
I can see an upgraded to the Z06 for more HP but I expect a NA ZR1 this time around.
SS ...V8
ZL1...Supercharger "most power, longest production run, mid price point"
Z28..."427 NA light track car, least number produced, highest price"
Stingray...V8
Z06...Supercharger "most power, longest production run, mid price point"
ZR1...probably will get "LT5 530 hp NA light' carbon fiber, wheels, doors, areo 10 speed, higher price less production."
I can see an upgraded to the Z06 for more HP but I expect a NA ZR1 this time around.
Last edited by CitationZ06@yahoo; 01-18-2017 at 04:25 PM.
01-18-2017, 05:23 PM
#56
Burning Brakes
Like someone said here before, no way the new LT5 DOHC would fit in our cars, not even with the taller hood. If the LT5 is going to be a real deal it has to be for the mid engine car. Really makes no sense to have that size of V8 in todays market, why would they invest in a DOHC motor of 6.2l when the world is using smaller turbo motors? Would think they would make a 3.8L or so like Mclaren and Ferrari with twin turbos.....something funny is going on here and GM is having the last laugh
My 2 cents for the day
My 2 cents for the day
01-18-2017, 05:23 PM
#57
Safety Car
Gm did the same flop with Camaro.
SS ...V8
ZL1...Supercharger "most power, longest production run, mid price point"
Z28..."427 NA light track car, least number produced, highest price"
Stingray...V8
Z06...Supercharger "most power, longest production run, mid price point"
ZR1...probably will get "LT5 530 hp NA light' carbon fiber, wheels, doors, areo 10 speed, higher price less production."
I can see an upgraded to the Z06 for more HP but I expect a NA ZR1 this time around.
SS ...V8
ZL1...Supercharger "most power, longest production run, mid price point"
Z28..."427 NA light track car, least number produced, highest price"
Stingray...V8
Z06...Supercharger "most power, longest production run, mid price point"
ZR1...probably will get "LT5 530 hp NA light' carbon fiber, wheels, doors, areo 10 speed, higher price less production."
I can see an upgraded to the Z06 for more HP but I expect a NA ZR1 this time around.
Yes the low sales would probably occur again if such a model were made but I would have bought it instead over a supercharged Z06.
1. GM priced that Z28 too high. Sorry, but it just had too high of a profit slice compared to most GM offerings.
2. The average consumer is an idiot. People buy to check boxes, mostly power power power but don't understand the finer details like weight distribution, thermal management, good turn in which have just as much of an impact on the driving experience.
01-18-2017, 07:57 PM
#58
Like someone said here before, no way the new LT5 DOHC would fit in our cars, not even with the taller hood. If the LT5 is going to be a real deal it has to be for the mid engine car. Really makes no sense to have that size of V8 in todays market, why would they invest in a DOHC motor of 6.2l when the world is using smaller turbo motors? Would think they would make a 3.8L or so like Mclaren and Ferrari with twin turbos.....something funny is going on here and GM is having the last laugh My 2 cents for the day
My 2 cents for the dayIf it is a Red Herring or GM really fears alienating The Faithfull with the ME, then it does seem somewhat logical.
01-18-2017, 08:10 PM
#60
I can't help thinking the ME will first show up as a Caddy before working its way to Chevrolet.