b4i4getit

Agreed.

tobaccokid

Like with many organizations, especially large ones, sensitivity to, and knowledge about, its most loyal and devoted customers is very often severely lacking. Quite a few large corporations have gone bust in history, their size not being an impediment to going under. Had the government not spent gigantic bucks, and broken commercial law, GM would have gone into bankruptcy. It doesn't matter how long Tadge or any other employee has worked for a company. As a matter of fact the longer their employment the greater the likelihood they are susceptible to operating in a bubble. Tragic, but reality. The list of large corporations that most people would never have thought to go bust (or close to it) is endless: Digital Equipment Corp., American Motors, Sears, Motorola/Nokia (cell phones), ****, Woolworth, and on and on.

Tadge, like most people, place continued employment and ultimately retirement very, very high on their list of priorities. A fact of life.

Greg00Coupe

There is only one thing I'd want and that is another cooler on their dime. That seems to me to be most realistic. Read a review on the ZL1 same motor and it never overheated. Only difference was another cooler.

I've read where folks who added a secondary cooler solved most of the problem. GM is should be balancing a solution for the dollars it will cost them, the goodwill it will generate and solving an issue for the majority of owners.

sunsalem

Well said.
Job 1 of any job at any organization is preserving said job...period.
Anything different is to ignore basic survival instincts.

b4i4getit

GM really can't do much at this point since all the previous Z06 owners would be screaming for no cost upgrades. The other problem is that most of the engineering assets are tied up in C8 design. There is little money or time to start reinventing the wheel for the C7 Z06.

RACE U

There is a huge difference in "upgrade", versus a product that won't perform as claimed by a manufacturer at the time of sale. It is reasonable for a customer to expect a product to perform as claimed by seller. Any (within reason) costs should be the responsibility of the seller to make a product perform as claimed. That is basic. The company should pride itself on meeting it's customers expectations, especially when the company is responsible for setting such expectations.

funz06

Just thinking out loud after reading some of the latest posts....................I think we brought this on ourselves, at least a little bit. For example, why did we all buy the C7's, including the Z06's, when the paint jobs were so bad? I remember with the 2014's and early 2105's, the orange peel could easily be seen from 20 to 30 feet away in the dealer show rooms------yet, we still bought the cars. For the most part we wouldn't have done that for our daily drivers---we would have moved on to another model, etc. However, it was a corvette and we went along.

Why did we buy the Z06's when we knew the paint on the sides was going to get chipped from the road debris---like the C6 Z06's?

We did the 90+% of us that don't track the car buy the Z06 knowing we can't get all season tires to fit the damn car----so for us in the colder climates, we are limited to using the car 6-7 months of the year with the track tires---it is land boat?

Similar thinking with the cooling, once the problems surfaced with the 2015 Z06's, we still went ahead and bought them anyway--same with the 2016's.

GM went into bankruptcy, and the reasons why are many------e.g., poor products (we had 3 Caddies with problems they couldn't solve---electrical; 13 water pumps in about 12 months; burning a quart of oil with every few hundred miles); poor customer service (they did not care at all with our car problems-----end result is that my wife swore off GM products and this also impacted our childrens' thinking).

I know when they emerged from Chapter 11 their service didn't improve, nor did their big company bureaucracy when it came to common sense. For example, I needed a new trunk panel for my 2008 Z06. THREE times they shipped one out in a flimsy cardboard box---maybe an eighth of an inch thick---tops. So 3 times the trunk came in broken. The body shop was on the phone with GM in Detroit---speaking to the folks in the warehouse for the 3rd and 4th shipments------oh yea, no next day delivery to help the customer out. In fact, for the last two shipments, since it was 'near' the end of the day in Detroit, they wouldn't pick the trunk from the inventory until the next day---it was near time to go home. So 3 trunks were broken---ends all smashed, etc. and nobody cared. Meanwhile the body shop owner showed me how 3-4 other manufacturers sent their body parts------all bubble wrapped; very thick cardboard--almost like wood; etc., etc.

Bottom line, GM does what it does because they can---we let them. We still buy the corvettes--------they can ignore the few that do complain because they are making money off the model anyway---no reason to spend money to fix problems as only a few will switch to another car------comes down to money and not reputation, customer service, or product quality.......in their eyes, anyway.

I love my 2015..............best vette I have owned. I don't track it though............................also don't think GM has changed one iota from their pre-bankruptcy days..............too big to care about the customer.

And I had my caffeine......................don't know what triggered the above rant.......sorry in advance...............

Mordeth

Good post funz06, and I think you are right. We made our own monster, and now we complain when the monster does what monsters do.

Most of us (including me), knew this going in. If a person didn't, then shame on them for not performing a 5 minute internet search which will yield a plethora of information related to this issue and how to deal with it. My plan is and was to fix the problem myself, like grown folk do regarding most things that don't work the way we want them to. So a nice new secondary radiator to start and go from there. I don't care how much a manufacturer claims that a car is "track ready". Any idiot who has ever driven on a race track knows that mass produced vehicles designed for general public consumption require some degree of preparation before they see a race surface - with heat control and cooling being a top priority (in addition to brakes, tires, fluids etc). I don't buy into any marketing claims from manufacturers/suppliers - I trust experienced end-users.

Not trying to excuse away GMs egregious actions. It is shameful and an embarrassment. I can't even go into the C7 general forums without some idiot making a comment ("Yea your Z06 is fast, until global meltdown and then my base C7/GS is laughing and lapping you..") Damnit! Then it is all down hill from there (snap oversteer comments, too much power to control, no Nurburgring time etc). The last time I filled up my gas tank before putting the car away for the winter a guy came over and said "Beautiful car". I said "Thanks". He asked "Z06?". "Yep". Then: "Is that the one that overheats when driven hard?" Godamnit!! Yes yes who cares what others think, but it is still irritating.

In addition, I have lost some faith in Tadge, who essentially promised a "fix" on two separate, documented occasions yet has failed to come through. Maybe he still will but I won't hold my breath. I realize that the "fix" is not necessarily simple, from a logistical and cost perspective. But if he is not authorized to make these promises then he simply shouldn't, or at least be man enough to come forward and say that he was wrong and it isn't happening. Leaving people hanging simply isn't cool.

sTz

I think you're turning blue... AND, there is no concrete evidence to show that the '17's cooling "improvements" actually improve cooling in a track setting. If any... it's negligible.

I said this a year ago- the taller lid, modified bricks, extra cooler (M7), and tuning was just a bandaid, and the cheapest and quickest way to retrofit the existing platform without truly addressing the problem, which would have obviously been a lot more time consuming and costly.

That being said, I've NEVER experienced overheating issues, but I don't track, so no complaints here.

btwicked

GM where is the parts exchange program spoke about in the video?

funz06

With you 100% Mordeth................

sunsalem

Amen to that.

I completely agree with what you 2 guys are saying.


The Corporate respect for those who buy their most expensive Chevy cars is underwhelming...to say the least.

23/C8Z

that's my video.

Oh.....if I catch him there this year lol.

Its like the corvette Zapruder film.

you believe even knowing what I knew, after hearing it. Documenting it and posting it in a thread here I still went ahead and bought a 16 anyway just two months later.

Bill Dearborn

It takes a lot longer than a few months to put a parts exchange program in place than just saying you are going to do it. First, you have to figure out how you are going to do it without affecting the certifications for the cars affected. Then you have to come up with procedures, prices and parts purchase plans. Do all 15 and 16 cars get the program?That is a hard question to answer since the problem is largely overblown. How many Z06 owners that track their cars have had an issue with overheating? As it turns out not many. Of the ones that did have problems almost every one of them had an A8. People with A8s that did what GM told them didn't have all that much of a problem either.

My car saw 17 track days last year and ran like a champ. Never came close to overheating even when ambient temps were in the low to mid 90s. I have been tracking Corvettes since 1992 when I started with an 86 C4. That car could set off the oil temp warning and I had to add an oil cooler. Same goes for the 97 and 03Z. The 08Z is the only car that didn't require any added cooling. Then I purchased the C7Z and I added the GMPP Secondary Radiator before I ever took it to the track.

As far as I am concerned the C7Z is the most track capable Vette I have ever had. I am setting personal lap records by knocking more than 4/5 seconds a lap off my previous times. That is a fanatastic difference for a car that is supposed to be such a dud.

Bill

jvp

Folks should read this, re-read it, and read it again. Do that before Tadge answers the question that was sent to him yesterday.

RACE U

What's your point? He still had to add a secondary cooler for the car to perform as claimed by GM. If you are suggesting that GM is going to provide the secondary coolers, that is one thing.

But all we hear right now is nothing (there is so little follow through from GM to say "yes", we are going to provide an appropriate solution for the problem, such as add a cooler). Right now, it appears to being ignored, hoping all the 15/16 owners will just go away.

HPT

I thought it was the old farts who always complained Millennials being the group who always act entitled.

GM better not make any changes or updates to the 2019 ZR1. Otherwise, I'll raise hell until they give me the new parts at no charge for my 2018.

SBC_and_a_stick

GM so far has not paid to upgrade cooling on any of the cars, you have to pay for it:
*second radiator - you have to pay for it
*power steering cooling duct - you have to pay for it
*updated brake deflectors - you have to pay for it

The only other option is to trade in for the new model, 2017 in this case or 2018 ZR1 with the updated cooling. This is another way for you to pay for it.

The good news is, there are more and more cooling solutions coming from GM. The car is a bargain as it is. I'm not complaining.

Is there room for improvement? Sure there is. The Camaro ZL1 comes fully sorted out of factory for track work. It even gets forged wheels in some trims whereas we keep bending our cast/flow formed ones. I'm not sure why the Corvette team can't at least match the Camaro team in that respect. Same organization, very different outcomes.

btwicked

I agree! BUT GM has had probably over 1 year to decide what to do with this fiasco. The Carlisle event was in august of 2016. It's march. That's 7 months PLUS I'm sure this was talked about in GM engineering when they decided the 2017 needed changes and GM management PRIOR to Carlisle otherwise, why mention it?


I bet in a few weeks a company the size of GM can decide on making this program happen. Call up your buyers, have them pull up the price of the parts needed to upgrade the 15/16 Z06 cooling upgrades to 17 upgrades...that should take 30 minutes. Decide on pricing the parts to the current owners OR give them a free parts trade in upgrade to correct the engineering defects- maybe 1/2 day discussion. Supply side logistics and sending parts to the dealers should be determined in a few days. This really isn't that complicated. The complicating factor, I believe is clearing it with your legal department - maybe a few weeks.


BUT if you offer a FREE parts trade in program to current ORIGINAL owners this is a no brainer. It satisfies the unhappy customer and also satisfies legal.


As it stands now, as stated previously, you hope the owners of the 15/16 Z's just go away or trade their cars...talk about customer service. All we hear is crickets when this subject is brought up.


We do not want to hear, "well how many has this happened to?" because the fact of the matter is this effects every owner through decreased resale/trade value due to the defective engineering in the cooling department. I stated that previously, but look all over the interweb, the word is has been out for sometime now, the 15 and 16 Z06 overheats when pushed on the track. it's on youtube, it's in the auto reviews on the web, in newspapers, all of the car forums etc. The car has a stigma about it now!


As an owner of a 2016 Z which I bought prior to the huge discounts, I was sold a car that I was lead to believe is "the most track capable car GM has ever produced." - I must have missed the disclaimer on *this only applies to our marketing program because it sells cars but when pushed the car will overheat on the track and don't track your auto because we haven't worked the kinks out of the 8 speed auto yet.


GM, do what's right for your customers and your customers will reward you with brand loyalty, but you only get a few chances to keep that loyalty.

Gary '09 C6

IMO, the hard truth is if unit sales haven't suffered, GM is likely less motivated to do anything that will either increase their costs
or perceived liability exposure. "Plan B" could be to incorporate the necessary fixes in a new model and keep production moving...

(putting aside for a moment the merits of the issue/discussion)