DesertDog56

I see that the Ford GT sometimes has that term applied. It got me wondering what is the definition of a supercar. It would appear that it's a tricky term to define. "Hypercar" gets even trickier. It also appears that any production volume and/or practical features count against it.

http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/0...n-of-supercar/

Do you think the Corvette will ever be classified as a supercar with any amount of performance?

JoesC5

My C6 Z06 is classified as a "supercar'.

http://www.supercarworld.com/cgi-bin...eneral.cgi?315

sunsalem

FWIW, I would call the C7 Z06 and C6 ZR1 "supercars."
The Ford GT is an "exotic."
IMO, "hypercars" need to be from mainstream manufacturers.
There are currently 4 (not counting the variations):
Bugatti Veyron
McLaren P1
Porsche 918
La Ferrari

Z06 1of38

Not all from "mainstream" manufacturers, but what would you label these?

Pagani Huayra and Zonda
Koenigsegg 1:1
Lykan Hypersport
Ferrari FXXK

And as much as I love the vette, it's a sports car.

sunsalem

Pagani Huayra and Zonda = boutique manufacturer, exotic
Koenigsegg 1:1 = boutique manufacturer, exotic
Lykan Hypersport = boutique manufacturer, exotic
Ferrari FXXK = not licensable = race car for the super wealthy

Crushinator

My Dad and I have this conversation quite a bit. My opinion is no Corvette will ever be considered a supercar. He's basing it all on performance stats. His '11 ZR1 certainly has supercar performance. But a Corvette is too attainable to be considered a supercar.

ShahulX

sports car - miata, boxster/cayman, brz, m3, sedan based amgs, audi rs cars, caddy v series cars, mustang,camaro, alfa 4c, lotus evora, lexus lc500,

supercar- vette, cayman gt4, 911, viper, aston db11, f type R, r8, bmw i8, nsx, bentley, nissan gtr, lotus evora 400/exige s

exotic- amg gt, ferrari anything (except enzo/f40/laferrari) , lfa, lambos, ford gt, mclaren 570s/650s/mp12-4c, maserati

hypercar- ferrari lafferari/f40/50/enzo... p1, 918, carrera gt, lykan, gumpert, mclarenf1, veyron/chiron, pagani

megacars- upcoming mercedes project one and aston/rebull AMRB001

ShahulX

obviously many more... nameplate can push you up or down in status... a nissan gtr is faster than some exotics ( a lot of) but the nissan name plate keeps it in a tier lower... where as a Amg gts may not be faster than a Z06 but the mercedes amg nameplate moves it up, or perceived anyhow... pricetags can move you, rare-ness, appearance... IMHO

JoesC5

Most of the cars you list as "sports cars" are sport coupes/convertibles, not sports cars.

The AMG GT is not an exotic as it is built virtually identical to the Corvette. if you classify the AMG GT as an exotic then you have to also classify the Corvette as an exotic, which it isn't. The NSX is more of an exotic than the AMG GT.

ShahulX

Just my view.. however.. a Miata or a BRZ or a boxster is a sports car, I think. People track them a lot, there are race series for the Miata.. the boxster is a Porsche and a great sports car.. whether a car is a coupe or convertible doesn't stop it from being a sports car...

The AMG GT I was on the fence about... is an exotic I think ..borderline supercar ,which I agree with you... but.. Hand built engine, not based on a existing Mercedes sedan/coupe.. more rare, the AMG GT-R just did like a 7:10 at the ring, pace car for formula one not Indy. My Corvette GS is faster than probably all the AMG gt's except the GT-R ... But those things and the AMG Mercedes badge, give it a leg up. From the eyes of a non enthusiast... If you go to a gas station someone may ask you about your Vette... In an amg GT series, you will get a LOT of attention... Which is why I bumped it up slightly... mAybe should be supercar

ShahulX

Oh and for the coupe convertible thing... There is a reason I didn't list the Accord coupe, Altima coupe, VW eos, Audi A5, etc ... As sports cars.. some coupes and convertibles are just that... But not sports cars

sunsalem

My list would be the Miata, Boxter/Cayman, 4C, and Lotus.
They fit the traditional and my personal definition perfectly...small, lightweight, emphasis on fun and handling rather than power, and relatively inexpensive.

JoesC5

Don't forget the Crosley Hot Shot then. It was small, lightweight, emphasis on fun and handling rather than power, and was inexpensive. It also came with 4-wheel disc brakes(16 years before the Corvette had them) and also won the first Sebring race 12/31/1950.

sunsalem

Speaking of (go to the 4 minute mark):

ZR1Gerhardt

Yes, I think the ZR1 C6 and c7 Z06 are supercars.

Back in the past, supercars were a combination of performance and exclusivity. I remember growing up when the Lambo Countach could go zero to sixty in 4.4 seconds and hit 180ish. While those numbers are still fast and respectable for a street car, so many cars have blown past them to reach incredible performance numbers. 0-60 times in the upper twos and low threes. Some cars have done the quarter mile in the ten second range from the factory (some Z06s C7 and ZR1s have done this). Those performance numbers are so good, that many cars may be considered "supercars" based on the old definition from the 70s maybe.

But with so many cars putting out great numbers, the definition of Supercar has become more encompassing. In reaction to this, the term exotic has taken on more meaning to refer to cars that are very exclusive and typically out of reach of anyone outside the top 1% of the world.

And now with the best of the best performance becoming mind boggling, the new category of hyper car has arrived. But it is not only performance, it is exclusivity, and the newest high tech (hybrid systems putting out mass torque through complicated AWD systems).

If performance keeps increasing, we will all have hyper cars, and a new category of "rocket ship" will develop! Because as we have said on this forum, you can never have enough power!

Scott

NytmereZ

Top model corvettes have supercar performance , but are still a mass produced , I don't consider my past or present C6/C7 Z cars to be true super cars , I,don't even consider my current Gen 5 Viper Ta to be a supercar, and it is a low production,hand built car that is Definalty a step above corvette,if you look at all the criteria a supercar should have.

Supercar to me would be more in line with ford gt.

ShahulX

That thing will be the fastest most incredible performing street car ever produced

sunsalem

Both cars offer "supercar" performance (at least in terms of what the current definition is).

With its low production numbers and rarity of design and materials, the GT is an "exotic."
YMMV on all of this of course.

Let's see what the crazy AM/Newey-designed car comes out as.

ShahulX

Yes that Adrian newey red bull/Aston car should be pretty amazing as well... High revving v12 is amazing of course. Im sure it'll sound amazing.. the Mercedes project one is using a version of their actual current F1 engine.. 1.6 turbo 6 with hybrid electric power unit...over 1000 HP. Aston uses Mercedes-Benz electronics and parts in their db11 and on so that'll be interesting.... Reb bull can't use a F1 engine I guess because it's a Renault engine.

Newey is an amazing aero guy and designer.. bit Mercedes and Ferrari past him this year in aero also. Street cars will be anyone's guess.. since you aren't forced into much (like no active aero in F1)

sunsalem

I do find MB's use of the 1.6 Turbo in a STREET CAR to be pretty damn amazing.
Gotta give 'em credit for having "large attachements, " as David Hobbs might say.


Regarding Newey's involvement with this year's car, here is an interesting read:
http://www.eurosport.com/formula-1/n...42/story.shtml