Dirk Miller

Drag racing is not for everyone, yet many people including corvette owners sure have seen the numerous videos showing a Tesla beating a ZO6 on drag strips. Tesla’s torque and their all wheel drive system is obviously an advantage here. With this in mind, I’ll say the GM engineers have or are considering a mid-engine hybrid for the C8. A properly designed hybrid engine could be mounted mid, should weigh less, battery weight could be slung low and this would shift more weight to the rear. Wouldn't a front to rear weight of something closer to 45/55 help? Unfortunately most people who drive with this kind of weight balance would need all wheel drive; otherwise the rear end will be spinning things around. IMSA does not allow all wheel drive in the GTLM racing division as found in our WeatherTech SportsCar Championship series. So how a new C8 hybrid could take advantage of additional torque supplied by battery power and still stay powered through rear wheels would be interesting to see.

NB68

Sooo, does this mean because IMSA does not allow all wheel drive in the GTLM racing division we will never get to see an AWD corvette?

NY09C6

If the Corvette goes rear engine, adding a FWD electric setup becomes very easy. This would be a similar setup to the BMW i8 and would make a lot of sense as a performance option.

Dirk Miller

I would think GM would have to answer that. If they did go that way, they would have to follow what Audi has done for the race circuit. Even though Audi does not sell a solo rear wheeled car, they have raced their R8 in the GT Daytona class for a few years now. They did this by eliminating the front wheel propulsion. This car by Audi is not offered to the public, but it is their R8 model. This is one class below the Corvette GTLM class; the same class that Viper had run in until this year. I'm no purest, yet I've heard some people say that a sports car should be rear wheel driven. I believe all large auto manufacturers understand how safe all wheel drive is and safety is a huge concern. That's one reason Porsche put all wheel into many of their models. Not many people are properly trained to drive a rear wheeled sports car with all that weight in the back.

JoesC5

The 2017 NSX is a AWD hybrid with 500 HP at the flywheel and 573 HP including the electric motors(3), with a F/R weight distribution of 42%/58%.

The NSX is heavier than the C7 Z06(with it F/R weight distribution of 51%/49%), and the NSX hasn't lived up to it's "high technology design" on the track.

The front engine, non hybrid Mercedes AMG GTR with it's 4L 577 HP TT V8 and lower weight performed past it's "low technology design" on the track, running the Ring in 7:10.92. Oh and it's front engine with a torque tube and a rear transaxle has a F/R weight distribution of 47.3%/52.7%. Who says a front engine sports car has to be heavy on the front axle?

If I were concerned about a car's prowess on the track, I would be more impressed with the "low tech" front engine rear wheel drive AMG GT R than the "high tech" ME mid engine all wheel drive hybrid NSX.

Rkreigh

Lightweight and electric are oxymorons.

The testla runs like a scaled dog to 60, over 100, not so much.

The nsx is nice, but not a great solution and over 200k is ridiculous for that level of performance.

I laughed when I say the "50 k dealer markup"

My TT vette didn't cost that and now 30k will buy you a pretty nice starting point for a car that will run from it.

I like the idea of the rear engine front electric to plant the power much better, and help meet the EPA CAFE without being boring.

But they need to keep the battery array small or it will be at NSX weight which is a deal breaker for a good track car.

phantasms

Hopefully Corvette gets forward thinking before I go for a new car. The upcoming 750hp 3 electric motor i8 is looking pretty good. Judging by GM's move with the Volt and Bolt I've got to imagine they'll do a 918 type drivetrain sooner than later. Good times ahead with insane 60 foots!

JoesC5

Starting MSRP of the NSX is $157K, not "over 200K" and it's CAFE is 21 city/22 highway(21 combined). Not much better than the front engine C7 Z06's 13 city/23 highway(16 combined).

Yes, the $152k Tesla P100D runs like a scaled dog to 60(2.5 seconds), but not every Tesla on the street is a P100D. I've only seen one Tesla in person and that was at a resort in Moab where I was staying. It was a 60D, and they are quick, for a basic $75K car for those on welfare, but they don't run 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. A poor boy $85K Z06 A8 with it's 0-60 in 2.95 seconds is quicker than a $80K 75D with it's 0-60 in 5.5 seconds(I would much rather have a 2017 Mercedes AMG C43 4matic coupe with it's 3L TT V6 and 362 HP that does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds for $57K than a Tesla 75D for $80K).

tbrenny33

I see several Tesla's a day and I have seen 0-P100D let alone P90. Not too mention they usually don't have a full charge anyways so that 0-60 don't mean much if it isn't fully charged.

JoesC5

Very good point. My four ICE vehicles have 100% of their power available 100% of the time. Doesn't matter if I have a full tank of gas, or a 1/4 tank of gas, of after I've driven then aggressively for 3 minutes or 10 minutes.

Not so with a Tesla. There is a video where a Tesla is running at Nurburgring and after 2-3 minutes it was running in "power reduced" mode and took 10 minutes to complete the course, because of the reduction in power.

phantasms

this is simply not true. Lithium ion batteries don't work in this way. Your laptop doesn't run slower as the battery drains. Someone tested this idea with a P100D and found some small reduction in power once the car was low on battery however it still put down a 0-60 faster than most of our Z06s. This is the future guys and we can't fight it. Record for a near stock Tesla is 10.4 at the strip and it wasn't his first pass of the day. It was his third or so. Yeah on a roll race the Z will beat it but it should! Remember the Tesla is a 4 door 7 seater sedan which just happens to be capable of running 10.4. I'll keep one ice vehicle just in case but in a few years I'll be running 10 flat powered by the solar powers on my roof. What's not to like???

As far as track driving the Tesla can't do it because it's not made to do it it's not an energy thing. Check this stunning electric car that crushed at COTA. And the game is just starting with these electrics. Very exciting! .

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a32757/nio-ep9-electric-car-cota/?src=social-email

Best,
Gene

JoesC5

10.4 for a "near" stock P100D. With four tires putting the power to the pavement.

Tell me, Why does the P100D go into "reduced power" mode when the batteries get hot and start dropping power after 3 minutes at the Ring?

Maybe if the P100D had a 505 HP ICE 2.9L V6 with less weight because of less batteries required it could run the Ring in 7:32 without going into "reduced power" mode, and taking 10 minutes to run the same distance as that other 4 door grocery getter(Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio) that only uses two tires to put the power to the pavement.

An obsolete C6 Z06 pure stock on OE tires ran 10.981. With only two tires putting the power to the pavement. And ran the Ring in 7:22 pure stock.

With only drag radials it ran 10.715. With only two tires putting the power to the pavement.

And "near" stock it ran 9.874(bolt on only mods). With only two tires putting the power to the pavement.

An obsolete C6 ZR1 pure stock with OE tires ran 10.664. With only two tires putting the power to the pavement. And ran the Ring in 7:19 pure stock.

With only drag radials it ran 10.260. With only two tires putting the power to the pavement.

And "near" stock it ran 9.813(bolt on only mods). With only two tires putting the power to the pavement.

Except for the $155,000 P100D, I believe the stock C7 Z06 is quicker 0-60 than all other models of the Tesla. And I'm guessing for most of the Tesla's actually on the road, the base C7 Stingray Z51 and GS are quicker 0-60. I believe that the chances of running into a Tesla on a public street that will out run a C7 Z06 is pretty near zero. I sure haven't.

Michael A

A Tesla can run a 1/4 mile pass, but it can't run a road course at full power. The batteries heat up with power going out and power coming back with regenerative braking. Then the system cuts the power to prevent overheating the batteries and damaging them. It's a very poor windy road/road course car.

Properly designed, a high performance hybrid system could work as demonstrated by other manufacturers.

Michael

'06 Quicksilver Z06

No P100D has been run at the Ring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_acceleration

There ae 4 different variants of Teslas which are quicker to 60 than a C7 Z06. One of them is an SUV. Three of them are not Model S P100Ds.

Corvette Z06 does 0-60 in 2.95 seconds as per Chevy.

Tesla P90D Ludicrous 0-60 in 2.6 seconds. The quarter mile record for a stock on stock tires Tesla P90D with Ludicrous, which is now obsolete and has been supplanted by the current P100D, is 10.804.

Tesla P85D with Ludicrous 0-60 in 2.8 seconds.

The C6 Z06 you mention above weighs in at around 3200 lbs or thereabouts. A Tesla Model S at better than 5,000 lbs.

The instant torque of the Tesla, especially those with Ludicrous, and it's all wheel drive, give it a significant benefit.

If you do run across any version of the Tesla with Ludicrous, be it a P85D with Ludicrous, all the way up to a P100D with Ludicrous, you might discover that they are extremely quick, and not just the P100D with Ludicrous with its blistering 0-60 in 2.28 seconds, making it the second quickest street production vehicle of all time.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...y-a-tesla.html

The current P100D showroom stock on stock tires quarter mile record is 10.638.

And "near stock", the owner removing the lining of the front cargo area, the P100D Ludicrous record in the quarter mile is 10.44.

None of the above were on drag radials, but on all season tires.

Sedans just typically aren't that quick.

I would not be surprised at all to see a hybrid variant of the C8.

phantasms

I just came back to this thead to reply but I see Quicksilver beat me to it. Thanks!

JoesC5

My computer skills are very limited and I can't find out near the info that you can on Tesla. All I can find on tesla.com is their statement..... "Model S is designed from the ground up to be the safest, most exhilarating sedan on the road. With unparalleled performance delivered through Tesla's unique, all-electric powertrain, Model S accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in as little as 2.5 seconds."

I doubt that that means all seven models of the S can do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. In their 2016 inventory for sale, they list the 2016 P90D at 3.1 seconds. That is slower than a C7 Z06. And I doubt any model 60 or 75, 90D or 100D can beat 3.1 seconds. That leaves only the very expensive P100D that can beat the C7 Z06 A8.

For 2017...

$68,000 60 RWD (being dropped next month because of poor sales).

$73,000 60D AWD (being dropped next month because of poor sales).

$74,500 75 RWD

$79,500 75D AWD

$89,500 90D AWD

$92,500 100D AWD

$134,500 P100D AWD.

All I can find is that Tesla sold 1200 Models S's in Jan 2017 and 1700 in Feb, 2017 and 100 in Canada. I can't find a breakdown as to how many P100D AWD models were sold that pull that wonderful 0-60 in 2.28 seconds or how many 75 RWD models were sold that don't pull that wonderful 0-60 in 2.28 seconds.

Do you have a breakdown of the individual sales of each model(ie: 60 , 60D, 75, 74D, 90D, etc) for those two months along with the 0-60 and 1/4 miles times for each of the above seven model?

That way we can actually compare the acceleration times and the likelihood of pulling up next to each of the seven models(especially the $134,500 P100D) at a traffic light for a 0-60 sprint against your C7 Z06.

I think that I read somewhere(can't remember where) that the Tesla has a top speed of 125 MPH do to gearing. Is that true? I can't find any mention of top speed on Tesla's website.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

As the owner of a Tesla P85D, I can tell that you are unfamiliar with the Ludicrous equipped cars.

The specs for cars equipped with Ludicrous are different than for those not equipped with it.

For example, you mention the P90D.

The P90D comes as an "Insane" version or with "Insane mode". This is the base Model S (or Model X) P90D.

It also comes as a P90D "Ludicrous" version with a Ludicrous mode making it quicker and faster than the base or "Insane Mode" P90D.

Cars equipped with Ludicrous will have an underline in the badging. Hence P85D denotes a P85D with Ludicrous mode, making it quicker than the standard P85D Insane.

This dileneation continues with the P90D and the P90D. The P100D and the P100D. Down to the Model X P90D and the Model X P90D the Model X P100D.

Some P100D Model S versions, have what is known a "Ludicrous +".

This is an OTA firmware update on top of "just plain Ludicrous". It is an "Easter Egg" found within a recent Tesla OTA update for P100D vehicles.

These are the 0-60 in 2.2x second cars.

Any owner of a current Model S P100D with Ludicrous, which already does 0-60 in approx 2.5 seconds as you mention, can accept this OTA update and thus make available "Ludicrous +" to that car, boosting its capabilities to the high 2.2x 0-60 range.

But in short, here is where your confusion lies. There are Insane versions of the respective PxxD and PxxxD cars. These won't be underlined. And there are Ludicrous versions of those same carswhich will be denoted by the underline in the badge.

One more time, there are four versions of Teslas which are quicker to 60 than a C7 Z06.

Look at the link again.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...y_acceleration

Finally, Tesla's Ludicrous versions are a firmware change, added by them for a fee.

Their pre owned versions of the PxxD cars have this removed.

However it can be added to make the car Ludicrous, for that fee.

Basically all you need to know is this.

If you see any Model S Tesla with an underline in its rear badging, know that it is likely extremely quick and quicker than a C7 Z06 to 60.

Your prior warning to only be concerned about P100D cars, is bad advice.

I don't study sales figures.

Again your confusion centers around not knowing the cars and attempting to focus on "sales figures" in an attempt.

Your first misconception is that only the P100D is a threat to a Corvette over a short distance such as a quarter mile. That's a mistake.

Your second is with regard to Ludicrous and how it comes about.

Ludicrous is/was a firmware upgrade which makes a Tesla more powerful than its PxxD and PxxxD Insane siblings with the same kWh battery ratings.

Ludicrous is available as an after purchase unlock or add on in certain P85D Insane cars and was available as a retrofit in P90D Insane cars. It can also come as factory original in a P90D car or in a P100D car.

Ludicrous was added to my Model S P85D Insane, about a year after I bought it. Moving it from Insane to Ludicrous and significantly improving its factory 0-60 time and quarter mile times.

As mentioned before, it can also come from the factory as factory original Ludicrous in certain vehicles.

Think of Ludicrous as a factory modification to be added either before or in many cases after delivery . The car remains in warranty after it. But if traded in and endis up as a CPO car, the Ludicrous firmware will be removed from it prior to its resale.

The above is the reason why "sales figures" are of little use in determining the actual odds of running across one.

This is what should be taken from my above comments.

If the car is a Ludicrous Model S, denoted by an underline in its badging, or even an SUV Ludicrous Model X P90D or a Ludicrous Model X P100D, then it is a threat to a Corvette in a straight line in a traditional quarter mile race and quicker than a Corvette in a 0-60 metric.

tbrenny33

Quicksilver - how many times in a row can a tesla make a best 0 to 60 run? Or how much of a drop off out of the battery does it take for that number to start fading. I am assuming at 70% battery life those performance metrics drop pretty considerably, but that's why I ask.

JoesC5

That's a lot of good information.

So, a Ludicrous is like sending your Z06 to Callaway for a 757 HP conversion that will make it quicker, yet retain the warranty.

And like the Callaway, very little chance that the average Z06 650 HP owner will ever pull up next to a Callaway 757 HP car at a traffic light in Clinton, Arkansas.

What is funny, is that I have driven my C6 Z06 in 40 of the 50 states and I have never pulled up next to another car at a traffic light that would give me a problem. 99.9999% of the time, the car in the other lane is 4 banger SUV.

Sure, there are other cars out there that will out accelerate my Z06, but they are so few, that I have never had the opportunity to drag race one at a traffic light(where both us were the two front cars). Like I said, I've only seen one Tesla, and it was a 60D and it was parked at the resort where I was vacationing. I never had the opportunity to pull up next to it at a traffic light in Moab, UT to drag race it.

The odds are better that I will run into Brad Pitt at the local Kmart here in Springfield, MO than pull up next to a P100D at a traffic light, anywhere.

That was the reason for my asking about sales numbers. The number of Ludicrous Telsa's out there determines the probability of ever being next to one at a traffic light. The chance of being next to a standard Tesla is greater, and those standard Tesla's are not capable of ripping off those sub 3 second 0-60's. My point is that not every Tesla sold is a sub 3 second car, but most people seem to believe that they are. I don't think a 75D with a 5.5 second 0-60 is all that impressive, considering their cost. I would rather have a Mercedes C43 4Matic with it's quicker acceleration(0-60 in 4.6 seconds) at a $57,000 entry price, then a slower Tesla 75 with it's $74,500 entry price. Plus I could leave home in that C43 and drive to Los Angeles, CA and only have to stop for fuel 3 times at less than 10 minutes at each fill-up that's within a couple hundred feet of the Interstate.

'06 Quicksilver Z06