PaulUptime

Have one or more squeaky halfshaft u-joints in my '65 so wondering if anyone can recommend a driveshaft service company in the GTA.

I've heard that balancing C2/C3 half-shafts is a wasted effort, but I wouldn't mind having a shop check things through.

My car has some vibration above 3500 rpm that I believe is further up and due to a misaligned bellhousing. The clutch/trans/engine's all coming out this winter so for now I need to address the u-joints.

I don't believe this requires a busy/expensive Corvette shop to address. In fact, many owners in the C2 forums have had great results from truck driveshaft service shops.

Any recommendation in the GTA?
Thanks in advance.

7t2vette

Those in the know deal with Fred at Dynamic Shaft & Equipment in Scarborough. Upgrade to Spicer non greasable u joints while you are at it.

As for your driveline vibration, it's more likely a trans/driveshaft/rear diff u joint angle misalignment problem. Tremec has a new app for troubleshooting this issue.

VETFEVER

Wealth of info as usual Bruce

Ultimate Car & Truck

Fred is not around anymore. Driveline specialties or services not sure which it is, they took over from Fred. Still in Scarborough. 866 824 2390.

gdm78vette

App downloaded. Now I just need to find the time and an easy way to get under the car and take the measurements. I've been suspecting this to be the reason for my vibration issue and this simple app may help prove it. Thanks for the post!

PaulUptime

Thanks Bruce.
The company is now Drive Products and I spoke to Martin (on Nashdene.) I'll pull the half-shafts off and bring them over to them early next week.

Wasn't aware of that Tremec App either and loaded it on my Android now, too. Might be useful for the next person who re/re's my TKO600 this winter.

My understanding is that the last installer never centred the bellhousing correctly with a dial-gauge. Over the past few years the vibration and misalignment has resulted in leaky shaft seals, hard vibrations above 3800RPM and generally a drag knowing I have to have it done all over again (4th time.) My '65 not having a removable crossmember means engine-out too so this a more expensive, time-consuming job than later years.

FWIW the last re/re was because my Keisler sourced TKO got progressively harder to change gears until on the road, the shifter mechanism seized and I couldn't get it out of 4th. My general mechanic did the re/re and brought it to Mike at Precise Transmission for the rebuild/repairs.

Been shifting OK since, but overall only tolerably. The clutch, flywheel etc were replaced but the clutch is real hard - wearing away fork/linkage pin and my left knee. Now the throw-out or pilot bearing is chattering and it's all due to be done again and by someone with hopefully more experience can get it right. Tried to save a few bucks and give my regular the add'l business, didn't work out for either of us. Was without the car in-season and for 6 weeks!

Is pulling the half shafts off a big deal? Only wondering if I should try jacking up the car and doing it right on my garage floor over the weekend.

79 Bullet

I used these guys last year not happy with their work. I don't think their balancer spins too high. I am going to redo my driveshaft at a company in the east end Pickering or ajax area. I hear their balancer goes to 5000 rpms or something. just can't remember their name at this time. I think Fred passed away. I will try and get that name for you Paul.

PaulUptime

Thanks Louie - That's why I needed to ask!
Maybe see you out at the HDR tonight?

7t2vette

I was surprised by this, so I made a few calls to find out what happened...turns out Fred passed away almost 2 years ago.

In light of this info, I can't comment on the quality of work done by the new owners of this business.

Paul, properly dialing in the bellhousing is one of the most important steps. If you have to use offset dowel pins, I have found the ones that RobbMC sell to be the best quality and easiest to use.

Removing the half shafts is a pretty straight forward job; it is a little easier if your car has the HD bolt-on caps vs the u-bolts.

Ultimate Car & Truck

I just had Martin do a shaft for my Olds this year. I have made a few 10.0 passes at over 130mph this year since and all seems good with my driveshaft.

lionelhutz

Paul,

The half shafts aren't that hard to remove. Just remove the bolts at the wheel end and the u-joint straps at the differential end.

You don't need to balance the shafts. They turn at a fairly low rpm, probably around 700rpm at 60 mph. They won't have anything to do with a rpm related vibration.

It is easy to bend the wheel side u-joint flange when it's not bolted to the matching axle shaft flange and that can cause u-joint binding or early failure. You may want to check with the shop doing the work to see how they protect against damaging that flange. You can actually get a machined plate to bolt the flange onto that supports it while replacing the u-joint.

LT1vette

Good information from lionelhutz, add in this...


1. Check the quality of the pilot bushing. There is only one main supplier for all the distributors of driveline parts in GTA. There was a bad bunch back 6-7 years ago. ( I put a clutch in around then and the clutch got noisy in less than 200 miles, had to re n re again)


2. The flange, when the u joint is removed. Set it on a flat surface (piece of glass) to check for flatness and/or.. take a black felt pen and colour the flat face of the flange, take some fine emery paper on the glass and run the flange over this, you'll see if it's warped real quick. The "ears" get spread from ambitious unknowing mechanics trying to remove old u joint
PS... I don't think GM makes these anymore


3. Unusual to see bell housing misalignment, you would have had problems getting it back together. Remember this is 60's technology, tolerances were real wide, not .0005


4. Replace all, half and drive shaft, the u joints with Spicers, no grease nipples.


5. Have the flywheel checked for balance


Hope that helps, my .02 cents

PaulUptime

Thanks guys. LT1vette, appreciate those great ideas too for checking flatness of the flange. Who know what's been done to them before, and at least we have Carlisle coming up to perhaps source a replacement if required.

Here's the advice and a tool that ensures the flange isn't damaged, recommended from well-known and super-helpful resident expert JohnZ over in the C1/C2 forum - and as you said, lionelhutz, no point balancing them.

LT1vette

I'm thinking that once you've replaced the half shaft joints, that will be the end of your problems. If you can't remember when you replaced the driveshaft u joints then do them too, but only with Spicers!!!
The rear u joint seldom wears because the amount of movement it gets is slim, they usually "feel" seized, but a little spray with some quality, not WD40!!, penetrating fluid, a tap with a hammer, a working them back and forth will free them up.


Someone has been blowing smoke where the sun don't shine on the idea that the bell housing is out of alignment....You would have had problems before this........


Try the "cheapest" fix first, the ujoints. Take it to Bill at Grand Sport motors, Yonge/407, longest guy in the Vette business I know of, and he'll fix you up... Shameful plug


Hope that helps, keep us posted

QIK59

Please don't take offense on how I phrase things - there are some pretty thin skinned big ego's on this forum who don't like my bragging or my less than charitable opinions and old school humour.

First of all the only thing I can see an "ap" doing for anybody is saving a few minutes of googling to learn what is required for optimum driveline operation.
You still need to be able to access (see / inspect) your driveline and the ability to measure angles.

Optimum driveline condition requires the transmission and rear end rotating axis' to be parallel to each other (optimally within 1/2 a degree)and the driveshaft operating angle to be 1-3 degrees relative to the tranny and diff -AMEN !

Measuring angles accurately requires tools and fixtures to locate off the transmission shaft and differential yoke - I made my own.
I go to a LOT of effort and work to make special tools.
I can take pictures and describe what I fabricated if someone has machining and welding resources and really wants to do things "properly"

But the reality is if your car has not been monkeyed with (modified) then it was built pretty much to operate with minimal vibration - the driveshaft angles are correct.

If the u-joints are not worn out or seized then something else has changed to change the operating condition to bring on vibration (change operating angle).

C2/3 owners your diff has rubber mounts and they can be broken and the diff has moved / moves resulting in changed operating angle bringing on vibration.

At the front of the diff is a mount that could have come loose or the rubber biscuit broken.
The back/top of the diff bolts to a large crossmember which has rubber bushings/mounts that bolt to "pans" welded to the frame.
On a "Canadian" car there is a good chance one of the pans has rusted out or broken out of the frame.

If you have changed the tranny : put in a Turbo 400 in a C2 or a 5 speed of some sort you most likely had to change the tranny mounting which probably changed the transmission angle.
So you may have to correct or compensate for the angle change.

I've been running the same pilot bushing for 37 years and have only changed the clutch disc once !
And we raced the car for years : drags and slalom (gymkhana) besides trips to the east coast and the Pocono's (NCCC convention) as well as towing a trailer when racing.

PaulUptime

Yes, U-Joints should be worth a shot. The audible warnings are present...

FWIW and trying not to gripe, some history - Bill and Dino are familiar with my car, and vice-versa. They did all the early work to my car. In fact, I believe my Keisler/Tremec TKO 600 was the first one they'd installed when I got it. That first install didn't go well and I ended up taking it to Stingray the following year as they had more experience with that particular swap. At least everything worked at that second shop, but at 3x the estimate for time and fee.

Two years later, when the shifter seized and I needed somewhere to tow it close-by and after hours, I brought it to my general mechanic, who figured he'd tackle the re/re plus we'd do a bunch of other suspension, brakes, steering and other items at the same time. The expense and location were both more proximate, but the job in a busy general shop took forever for them to get to, and even once it did the new clutch, resurfaced flywheel, and rod linkage just were never right (LOT more effort than should be was required, paired with unhappy mechanical noises/vibration on clutch take-up and again above 3800RPM.) I've been tolerating it the past few years, but now the (new with TKO600) driveshaft vibration continues and there are leaks at the speedo cable, main seal and rear pinion.

I'm trying to be positive and realistic about their business objectives but shops are looking for full projects with open time-frames and budgets. I've had a lot more going on than the Corvette over the past few years and believe I have found a good shop I can leave it to re-do over next winter.

In the end, some of the most satisfying work has been the items I've done myself. Lots of learning and sacrifices away from doing other things but, well, one step at a time.

LT1vette

Now we're getting the WHOLE story.....!!!!


You left out some minor details on the tranny change. I, maybe some others here, were thinking the car was still in stock form, Muncie and the usual stock equipment.......


Change the u joints, almost 90% sure that would be your rear end squeak. You can check it by driving slow down a smooth road and slalom back and forth, the squeak will come when the u joint is "loaded" when turning.

PaulUptime

Yes the tranny change was a not-so-minor detail, but not related to the half-shaft u-joints. The squeaking/crunching is on the rear passenger side and only under load. In neutral she's all quiet and composed so I know it's not bearings - though rebuilt trailing arms are in its future.

I still have the original Muncie 4speed but going to the Tremec 5 speed was a major improvement to my enjoyment of the car - perhaps the best - even despite the issues with getting it set up. I've been in many 5 speed conversions that run quite well - they are my benchmarks.

There was a Hurst shifter on the Muncie, but it was still a sloppy buzzy box. We love long-drive touring in the car, and it's now a much quieter, more efficient and less stressful affair in 5th gear at 75-80mph with the also new Edelbrock 350ci "Performer" crate engine cruising below 3000RPM.

I actually won the car from CHUM radio in '99 (from the shop where Bill and Dino worked at the time.) "As won" it had that Muncie and a circa 1973 454 COPO BBC. I pulled that engine after a bearing spun, then decided I'd sell it and go to a lighter, cooler SBC. Got a great deal on a new Edelbrock polished crate engine with aluminum heads and intake - a much lighter, quicker affair than the BBC. I've still got the Edelbrock 650CFM carb the engine came with, and last year an MSD billet, tach-drive disty joined my MSD 6AL ignition. Driveline issues aside it runs very well. I may do the Atomic FI conversion in coming years, but I do have it now running quite reliably.

The nicest thing about having a non-original car (that I never expect to sell) is I can do whatever I like with it. We've done some awesome long drives and plan to do many more. Hope to have this UJoint affair finished for a cruise next Friday for the St. Catherines GM show, the Yonge St. Cruise on Saturday, then off for it's 12th year at Carlisle where it will be one of 20 1965s in the invitational 50th display, which is perfect since about a week after that, the car and I turn 50 - on the same day - and I'm hopeful we'll both have lots of fun ahead!

lionelhutz

Maybe you should actually know what the app does before you make dumb comments about it.


No, they do not have to be parallel to each other. There are 2 ways to avoid a vibration. Having the u-joint angles equal or having the angles equal and opposite. You're only describing the latter.

Another consideration is what happens under load. You may need the angles 1* out with the car at rest since the rubber bushings will flex enough the angle changes to -1* under load.



I'm 100% with you on this one Paul. Measuring upgrades by something like cost, required work or fuel economy is just plain dumb. The real measure of an upgrade is the increased enjoyment of the car. One of my examples - I'd only run an electronic automatic transmission (if I was using an automatic) because I can tune the shifting which makes the car more fun to drive. I'd never do such an upgrade if I used measures like fuel economy, the work involved or cost to justify the upgrade.

QIK59

I think Dad's calling............