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Old 03-20-2006, 10:13 PM   #1
ssj4
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Default How many coats of Zaino

I gotta admit, I have tried several differnt waxes. Rain Daince, Zymol (wal mart and dealer brands), P21S, Meguiars, Turtle Wax, and Zaino. Zaino gives the best "reflection". However, this can be a negative. After Dawning my M3 and applying zaino, every freaking scratch and ding showed up.

anywho, on my brand new Vette, I have applied my 8th coat of Zaino, I really didn't notice any aesthetic differnce after the 3rd coat. My car will be garaged, except when the weather is warm enough for top down driving. Is this enough? I do notice minor marks in the paint, and am thinking about using the Z5.

I just want the best bang for the buck.
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:37 PM   #2
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Typically, most layerable sealants hit their sweet spot at 3x. After that, its just more protection. If you are using the Z2 or Z5, a spray coat of Z8 will do much more than additional coats. Z8 gives a deep, wet carnuba like glow while still allowing the flake to jump out at you. It really brings out the depth, where I find the Z2 alone provides more reflections.
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigster05
Typically, most layerable sealants hit their sweet spot at 3x. After that, its just more protection. If you are using the Z2 or Z5, a spray coat of Z8 will do much more than additional coats. Z8 gives a deep, wet carnuba like glow while still allowing the flake to jump out at you. It really brings out the depth, where I find the Z2 alone provides more reflections.
I found that the Z8, at least from my opinion, doesn't do anymore than the Z5 (unless of course there is more protection). Granted, I didn't have a light meter to test the results. I guess what I'm saying is that the Z8 is overkill, as I have about 8 coats of Z2, 4 coats of Z5, and 3 coats of Z8. I couldn't tell the difference between Z8 and Z5 after any coat.
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:58 PM   #4
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use the zpc swirl remover from zaino followed by 2 coats of z5 to fill in any remaining scratches then use z2 for that show room shine.
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:01 PM   #5
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I have noticed some colors stand out more as you get more layers. My 98 Nassau Blue just keeps getting better up to 10 coats, beyond 10 I don't see it. On my LMB, anything after 6 and it seems to look the same.
Z-8 made a subtle difference in the 98 and made a huge difference with the LMB.
10 coats on my wife's Inferno Red Cruiser and it just stands out, beyond that I don't see it. But each coat made an improvement and Z-8 makes it jump!!!! Almost makes me wish I got Mag Red for the 05
I would say you are there and maintain what you have.
I did the C6 with ZPC, and it seemed to subtley flatten the orange peel. Don't expect miracles, I still have orange peel ..... it was very subtle, but I did notice an improvement. Along with the above coats, it made a huge difference.
ZPC did not do much for the Cruiser, but I used a very non-aggressive pad and I have not had time to do the 98 with it.

Last edited by Grzldvt; 03-20-2006 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssj4
I found that the Z8, at least from my opinion, doesn't do anymore than the Z5 (unless of course there is more protection). Granted, I didn't have a light meter to test the results. I guess what I'm saying is that the Z8 is overkill, as I have about 8 coats of Z2, 4 coats of Z5, and 3 coats of Z8. I couldn't tell the difference between Z8 and Z5 after any coat.
The Z8 and the Z5 are totally 2 different types of products used for 2 different things, the Z5 has a slight swirl filling action to it, and should always be followed by Z2, Z5/Z2pro are polishes.

The Z2pro has a more Wetter appearance then the Z5 , the Z8 is intended for the final Detailer as mentioned by others, and also recomended between each coat of Z5 or Z2pro is a layer of Z6, Some use Z8 for after coats, but Z6 is a bit more economical for that application.
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:48 PM   #7
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the main point - if you're seeing tiny scratches (swirls, cobwebbing, or a million other names people use for them - they're just tiny scratches in your clearcoat) then you need to POLISH them out.

In plain english, that means you need to SAND them out. Don't get confused by the term "polish" which is commonly misused. A real polish (NOT Z5 or Z2) is just liquid sandpaper to help you sand down the clearcoat until the surface is level with the bottom of your scratches, so they do not show anymore. Incorrectly, people use the term "polish" for a "glazing the donut" product that only gives gloss.

Glazing the donut products (sealants): NO abrasive qualities.
  • z5
  • z2
  • all standard waxes and sealants
True abrasives (of varying degrees of aggressiveness) - will REMOVE scratches
  • Zaino-PC fusion - extremely MILD
  • Menzerna intensive polish, final polish-II
  • 3M #39002, 39009
  • poorboys scratch & swirl removers
  • many many more...

You can't get rid of scratches by just putting more glaze on the donuts. And you can quote me here: The only scratches that Z5 will hide are the ones you can't see to begin with. If you've tried 1 or 2 coats of z5 to "hide" your scratches, don't bother trying any more. You really need to get a Porter-Cable 7424, or even better, a true orbital buffer, and SAND those scratches out of your clear coat.

Do a lot of reading on this forum, and if possible, get a friend to show you how to use the PC, or orbital buffer. You can do harm with the orbital if you're not careful.

Good luck
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman
the main point - if you're seeing tiny scratches (swirls, cobwebbing, or a million other names people use for them - they're just tiny scratches in your clearcoat) then you need to POLISH them out.
Actually, if this is the case, one needs to evaluate their washing/drying techniques and supplies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman
You can do harm with the orbital if you're not careful.
One would have to be *awfully* careless to cause damage with a machine like a PC.
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Old 03-21-2006, 07:50 AM   #9
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Anything after 3 coats is a waste of product period.
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:15 AM   #10
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Try Z-5 if you have light towel type scratches, if 3-5 applications doesn't make your finish look much less swirl free it's time for abrasives like Z-PC or 3M Scratch & Swirl Remover.
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman
And you can quote me here: The only scratches that Z5 will hide are the ones you can't see to begin with.
I find that interesting since I one time got a scratch you could catch your fingernail in slightly, but not completely through the clear. Now it did take several coats of the Z-5 but it gradually filled in the scratch to the point I could no longer find it and never did find it again. Screw quoting me, it is a plain fact.
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Old 03-21-2006, 11:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzano
The Z8 and the Z5 are totally 2 different types of products used for 2 different things, the Z5 has a slight swirl filling action to it, and should always be followed by Z2, Z5/Z2pro are polishes.

The Z2pro has a more Wetter appearance then the Z5 , the Z8 is intended for the final Detailer as mentioned by others, and also recomended between each coat of Z5 or Z2pro is a layer of Z6, Some use Z8 for after coats, but Z6 is a bit more economical for that application.
Whoops I meant Z6, I can't tell a diffrence between Z6 and Z8....sorry
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Old 03-21-2006, 01:09 PM   #13
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So on a new black car I know you do Z5 before Z2 but how many coats of each should you do? Like when you guys say three coats is fine then which do you do two of? And in future do you just take turns on using Z2 or Z5?

Also, it says to clean the pad immediately after using but can you wait and use the same pad for all three coats if done in same day?
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Old 03-21-2006, 01:41 PM   #14
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You should only do 3 coats in one day. After that I will just do one coat after every wash (atleast on my vette).

On my DD I usually only do one coat and it looks better than 99% of the cars on the road and last months. I try to do it every 3 or 4 months and only in the worst of conditions like severe pollen or salt do I ever actually notice it starting to need polish before that 3 or 4 month mark. Keep in mind this is with just one initial coat.
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Old 03-21-2006, 02:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowFlight
Anything after 3 coats is a waste of product period.
That goes for any synethic polymer, Zaino, NXT, Rejex (my favorite) etc. After 3 coats you should strip with Dawn and start all over again. If not, you are waxing the wax!! (Clay if necessary)

Last edited by c6vette; 03-21-2006 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 03-21-2006, 02:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c6vette
That goes for any synethic polymer, Zaino, NXT, Rejex (my favorite) etc. After 3 coats you should strip with Dawn and start all over again. If not, you are waxing the wax!! (Clay if necessary)
Not entirely true.

First of all, the cleaners/abrasives in NXT will not allow layering like a pure sealant.

There is also not necessarily a reason to "strip" sealant after 3 coats in order to add more (especially with Dawn). Your sealant begins degrading right after you apply it (assuming the vehicle leaves the garage). One may apply 1-xxx number of coats, but they won't all be there the next time one goes to apply.
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Old 03-21-2006, 05:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaneO
Not entirely true.

First of all, the cleaners/abrasives in NXT will not allow layering like a pure sealant.

There is also not necessarily a reason to "strip" sealant after 3 coats in order to add more (especially with Dawn). Your sealant begins degrading right after you apply it (assuming the vehicle leaves the garage). One may apply 1-xxx number of coats, but they won't all be there the next time one goes to apply.
Most Corvettes are either garaged or covered and are not driven in inclement weather,therefore, degrading of the sealant is kept to a minimum. My comments were not based on my opinion but on conversations with Meguiar's technical reps. Give them a call at 1-800-347-5700.
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c6vette
Most Corvettes are either garaged or covered and are not driven in inclement weather,therefore, degrading of the sealant is kept to a minimum. My comments were not based on my opinion but on conversations with Meguiar's technical reps. Give them a call at 1-800-347-5700.
You'd be surprised how many Vettes are either daily driven or driven a great deal. Every second it is exposed, it is degrading.

My statements are based on a great deal of personal experience, along with many others' who feel similarly.

So Meguiar's reps told you to use Dawn?
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:07 AM   #19
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[[[Anything after 3 coats is just a waste]]], I seriously dont believe that statement. So what your saying is If I lets say apply 3 initial coats of Z2 pro in a weeks time, that for the next 6 months any coat applied is a waste, I tend to disagree with that.

My personal experience tells me, every coat I apply adds to the depth of finish, and removing with dawn after every 3 coats applied would be a waste of time and product IMHO, thats saying that no matter what product you use , its only good for 3 coats, then Its time to strip the previous 3 coats off and start over again, Bah!!

I personally only wash my show cars Once,Yes once, Initially right after I purchase the vehicle, upon bringing it home I wash It, then claybar, then begin the Zaino process, I Never wash after that, never need to , I dont drive in the rain, I keep the vehicle covered in a garage, cover comes off , it gets dusted, any possibly road grime/spots accumulated after a days drive is simply Z6'd off, then a final dusting and the cover goes back on. Until I add another coat of Z2pro.

Never having to wash also eliminates the possibility of scratches occurring during a improperly washing method.Also never have to worry about missed water spots which can scar the clear, especially out here in Vegas where teh water is very Hard.

Bottom line is IMHO and my finish speaks for itself , is that every layer of Z2pro I add just makes the surface that much more deeper and durable and Glasslike.
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Old 03-22-2006, 03:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssj4
I gotta admit, I have tried several differnt waxes. Rain Daince, Zymol (wal mart and dealer brands), P21S, Meguiars, Turtle Wax, and Zaino. Zaino gives the best "reflection". However, this can be a negative. After Dawning my M3 and applying zaino, every freaking scratch and ding showed up.

anywho, on my brand new Vette, I have applied my 8th coat of Zaino, I really didn't notice any aesthetic differnce after the 3rd coat. My car will be garaged, except when the weather is warm enough for top down driving. Is this enough? I do notice minor marks in the paint, and am thinking about using the Z5.

I just want the best bang for the buck.

I had this very same problem on one of my other cars except it didn't involve Zaino it was the Klasse AIO. I was told to go back and resume what I was using for the last 20 years which I have over 30 coats of Liquid Glass Polish on or had before I used the above product which is fine and gives it a different look but it does expose those little scratches and swirls. Try that Liquid Glass Polish it doesn't cost much at all to try it is a gold can with a pink Corvette on it about $20 for a can and it is the same like some of these other products multiple coats are better than a single coat.
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