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Old 11-22-2006, 09:12 PM   #1
JVM225
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Default Pinnacle Souveran Vs. Zaino.

Ok! Here goes!
Today I went to a very high end detail shop to check on a clear bra for my 07 LMB Vert. The owner of the shop had just done a flawless clear bra installation on a black Z 06, and an amazing detail job on that car. The Z 06 was the cheapest car in the shop. He pulled a red Ferrari out of the detail bay while I was there, and replaced it with a Bentley.
Anyway, we got to talking about detailing and I asked him what he recommended for me to use when detailing my new Vert regularly in my own garage.
I explained that my Vert is a pleasure vehicle which is never left outside over night and will only see rain if the weatherman screws up royally.
He said that a detailing should always include a wash, polish, glaze, and wax or sealant (no news there).
He said that a hand detail might mask swirls or light scratches, but a machine polish is needed to remove them.
He gave me a bottle of his own mix; it is a combination polish and glaze that can be used either by hand or by machine. If I were to use it, I would use it by hand on my new car. He demonstrated his mixture next to 3M Hand Glaze (a product I’ve been using for years) on the spoiler of a Porsche he had awaiting detailing in the shop. His mixture blew away the 3M hand glaze.
He suggested that I use Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax after using his Polish/Glaze product.
I asked his thoughts on Zaino because I am about to bite the bullet and place the order.
He said that he thought that Zaino was a great product, but that Pinnacle Souveran would produce a shine that is just as deep and wet as Zaino, and the Pinnacle Souveran is a much faster and easier product to apply.
I’m looking to try something new on my new Vert.
I’d like to hear some objective comments from people who have used both products.
Both products are a little too expensive to try just once and retire to the shelf if I’m not satisfied with the results.

Last edited by JVM225; 11-22-2006 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:26 PM   #2
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your going to see a very heated reply ... and some diehards on each side. The fact is there are as different as night is to day. One is a sealant, and the other is a carnauba wax. Both have weaknesses and both have strengths.

High end shops typically like the Pinnacle and Zymol brands because they are instantly recognized. They are waxes that have traveled to Peeble Beach and back and have won many a show. That said these cars are looking for immediate gratification and instant depth. Longevity is not their strong point.

Sealants are synthetic in design, and have come along way in the last 10 years. Some feel they still have a way to go to match the look of a quality carnauba. That said, they are extremely bright and reflective and offer longer protection. As people lead busy lives and spend less time with the depreciating asset (cars) it is a great selling point. Zaino Z5Pro and some of our sealants (Duragloss 111, DP Shield Shine) really bring these up to top notch choices and have lessened the difference in outcome substantially.

So in retrospect you cannot and will not go wrong with either choice. You need to decide what you want and expect from the end product. What you will see that we all agree on is that proper care and prep is the key to making "any" and "all" products look their best.

Wash --- Clay ---- Polish --- Protect
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:41 PM   #3
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[QUOTEBoth products are a little too expensive to try just once and retire to the shelf if Iím not satisfied with the results][/QUOTE]


You wont have to worry about that, I love my PS on my Torch Red Coupe. A few months ago I went to my home town to hang out with some friends and I must have had 3 or 4 different people ask what I was using, also doesn't get much easier to apply, wipe on, wipe off
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:51 PM   #4
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both are great, but the pinacle is a little deeper on the darker colors.
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Old 11-22-2006, 10:17 PM   #5
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Check my post I did on detailersclub a few days ago. I have done numerous comparisons and even solicited my wifes and neighbors opinions on the topic. I will say that PS is one of the few carnuabas that I feel look as good as Zaino but I still feel Zaino has a slight edge when it comes to looks and needless to say it has the major edge when it comes to durability. They both seem to go on and wipe off super easy so it is a wash when it comes to application. Cost, Zaino wins by a large margin again. Bottom line, you really cannot go wrong either way but I am going to stick with Zaino.

Just curious, did he tell you what is in his mix?

Last edited by agentf1; 11-22-2006 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentf1

Just curious, did he tell you what is in his mix?
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:34 AM   #7
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I really think you have to be quite an expert to notice the difference between the two. I know this only from seeing showcars with Pinnacle - I only use Zaino.

There is no "better" one, as the posts above indicate.

For me the choice comes down to cost ($0.47 per coat of Z2Pro on my Vette with Zaino), lack of carnauba dust, lack of stain on the trim.

Both products are so good you can't go wrong either way. Your decision will be made on very small points.
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Old 11-23-2006, 05:49 AM   #8
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Where is the location on that shop in LI . I like to get it done twice a year by a pro shop and then keep up with it myself during year ...
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Old 11-23-2006, 10:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeeVet
Where is the location on that shop in LI . I like to get it done twice a year by a pro shop and then keep up with it myself during year ...
If the finished cars I saw in the shop yesterday were a sample of his work, I would say you couldn't go wrong with this place. I didn't ask about his prices.

Here is a link to their website

http://www.detailingdynamics.com/

"Just curious, did he tell you what is in his mix?"

The sample he gave me was his "Ultimate Cleaner". I've been using the 3M for years and in this stuff blew it away in the side by side test he did.

Here is a link to the product. You might have to copy and paste it in your web browser.

http://detailingdynamics.net/Merchan...tegory_Code=EP
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Old 11-23-2006, 12:26 PM   #10
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The problem I have with this person's recommendation is that if you keep up the regimen for whatever product you are loyal to, you don't need to apply a polish and/or glaze everytime you detail your car.

There is no panacea. Any product you use will require work AND any product will provide you immediate results.

The payoff with Zaino is the durability. Therefore, the "detail shop" person has a right to his opinion as do those who have tried both products and have come to the conclusion themselves.
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:01 PM   #11
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I us PS on the Vette, because all I want is the shine and look. The durability of the product isn't an issue because the car is only out 4 times a month. I just bought Zaino for my 06 Avalon which is driven slightly more. On this car durability is the major issue becaus there will not be much time spent washing and polishing in Chicago this winter.
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:58 PM   #12
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I've used both. I feel the Souveran had more depth to the shine and it was easy to appy. The Zaino takes more time to apply, and in a humid climate can take a while to to haze to the point you can buff it, even when using the accelerator. That is probably another reason why detail shops don't use it. Time is money.
I finally decided to use the Zaino because it lasted longer, and it does not seem to attract as much road dust. The oils in the Souveran seem to be a dust magnet.
Both products yield excellent results, but there is no free ride. With the Souveran you will need to wax more often, but it's quick. The Zaino will last longer, but will take you longer to apply. Your choice!
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Old 11-23-2006, 08:00 PM   #13
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This is a subject near and dear to me, since I have recently been through this little comparison myself. I've always been a big fan of the carnuba waxes because of their look and shine. Longevity has never really been an issue for me since I live in Atalnta and I can usually detail both of cars every couple of months. in fact, I look forward to it. I decided to bite the bullet and try some of the Pinnacle product a couple of months ago. I bought the paste wax, and some of the booster spray wax for in betweens. The product is marvelous, on both the yellow and the black cars. Very easy to use, easy on...easy off. And no residue left behind. The shine was deep and wet. And even though it had been two months, with several car washes and outside miles, the product was still beading like the day it was put on. But since the black car had a few surface scratches, and because we are coming up on the cold months, I thought I would try switching back to Zaino and get something that would last for 3 or 4 months. So, I did the Dawn wash routine (twice) and even used 3M wax remover on the hood and trunk areas, just to make sure the wax was gone. Then, I went a round with Meguires Swirl and Scratch remover, and then followed it with #6 Show Car Glaze. The finish was beautiful! Now time for the sealant coating. I went with the Zaino 5 (with ZFX) and topped it off with Z2 Pro (ZFX). In doing so I remember why I quit using Zaino in the first place. After all the streaking and having to use Z6 in between coats, and then use the Z8 to get the streaks out, I thought....what the f**k. I could have just used the Pinnacle Booster Spray and got a better look. Of course I expect the Zaino to last through March or so, but like I said, I really wasn't that concerned with the longevity. It's easy enough to use the Pinnace Booster Wax and in 10 minutes you have the beautiful carnuba shine back again. And with the Zaino, if you didn't use the Z8 the stuff would look like crap. For my money, and the looks, it's the Pinnacle Carunba for me.
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Old 11-23-2006, 10:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyC6
This is a subject near and dear to me, since I have recently been through this little comparison myself. I've always been a big fan of the carnuba waxes because of their look and shine. Longevity has never really been an issue for me since I live in Atalnta and I can usually detail both of cars every couple of months. in fact, I look forward to it. I decided to bite the bullet and try some of the Pinnacle product a couple of months ago. I bought the paste wax, and some of the booster spray wax for in betweens. The product is marvelous, on both the yellow and the black cars. Very easy to use, easy on...easy off. And no residue left behind. The shine was deep and wet. And even though it had been two months, with several car washes and outside miles, the product was still beading like the day it was put on. But since the black car had a few surface scratches, and because we are coming up on the cold months, I thought I would try switching back to Zaino and get something that would last for 3 or 4 months. So, I did the Dawn wash routine (twice) and even used 3M wax remover on the hood and trunk areas, just to make sure the wax was gone. Then, I went a round with Meguires Swirl and Scratch remover, and then followed it with #6 Show Car Glaze. The finish was beautiful! Now time for the sealant coating. I went with the Zaino 5 (with ZFX) and topped it off with Z2 Pro (ZFX). In doing so I remember why I quit using Zaino in the first place. After all the streaking and having to use Z6 in between coats, and then use the Z8 to get the streaks out, I thought....what the f**k. I could have just used the Pinnacle Booster Spray and got a better look. Of course I expect the Zaino to last through March or so, but like I said, I really wasn't that concerned with the longevity. It's easy enough to use the Pinnace Booster Wax and in 10 minutes you have the beautiful carnuba shine back again. And with the Zaino, if you didn't use the Z8 the stuff would look like crap. For my money, and the looks, it's the Pinnacle Carunba for me.
It sounds like you missed a crucial step inbetween the Meguiars SSR and #6 Show Car Glaze. If you try to apply Zaino over any of thoise products without first removing the oils you will get nothing but streaks. You need to apply Zaino to virgin paint. You should have done a 50/50 wipe or Dawn wash before applying your Zaino. If used properly Zaino never streaks and dries and comes off effortlessly.
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Old 11-23-2006, 10:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentf1
It sounds like you missed a crucial step inbetween the Meguiars SSR and #6 Show Car Glaze. If you try to apply Zaino over any of thoise products without first removing the oils you will get nothing but streaks. You need to apply Zaino to virgin paint. You should have done a 50/50 wipe or Dawn wash before applying your Zaino. If used properly Zaino never streaks and dries and comes off effortlessly.
Wow, here we go again. Zaino Zombie to the rescue!

I did do a 50/50 wipe down after the last #6 glaze. And I used the exact pad that Zaino sent with the kit. And I used Z6 on the pad. And I allowed almost an hour (even at 65 degrees with low humidity) to completely dry. And it still steaked. So don't tell me that "Zaino never streaks". There are at least a hundred threads on this forum about Zaino streaking. So there are only a handful of you experts who know how to use Zaino? I don't think so.

Each to his own. If you like Zaino, then good for you. But don't tell me I don't know how to apply the product, and why I should like Zaino better than a superior product like Pinnacle. This forum is about "your own" personal experiences and comments. These are mine!
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:07 PM   #16
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to add some spice to the mix I use a sealent (klasse the prep stuff then the sealent glaze) the stuff layers meaning you wait24 hours then can put another layer on so you get more protection. After 3 layers of sealent I put a topper of souvrain on

here is my 13 year old car with that regiman
Click the image to open in full size.

nd the c 6

Click the image to open in full size.


sort of cake and eat it too
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyC6
Then, I went a round with Meguires Swirl and Scratch remover, and then followed it with #6 Show Car Glaze.
Zaino was never designed to be applied on top of any other detail product. It should only be applied to virgin paint. This has been said many times on this and other forums. Additionally, you DON'T have to use Z-6 between coats. Its optional but not necessary.

Last edited by Crusher; 11-23-2006 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyC6
Wow, here we go again. Zaino Zombie to the rescue!

I did do a 50/50 wipe down after the last #6 glaze. And I used the exact pad that Zaino sent with the kit. And I used Z6 on the pad. And I allowed almost an hour (even at 65 degrees with low humidity) to completely dry. And it still steaked. So don't tell me that "Zaino never streaks". There are at least a hundred threads on this forum about Zaino streaking. So there are only a handful of you experts who know how to use Zaino? I don't think so.

Each to his own. If you like Zaino, then good for you. But don't tell me I don't know how to apply the product, and why I should like Zaino better than a superior product like Pinnacle. This forum is about "your own" personal experiences and comments. These are mine!
Yes, there are a few threads about streaking, certianly not hundreds and I think the common theme with most of the post is from product overload where people apply 5 or 6 coats at once and then try to Z8. Zaino is certianly NOT known for having problems streaking and on the rare occasion where you do get a streak all you need to do is a quick wipe with a damp cloth and the streaks are gone. The key to success with Zaino is apply it thin although I have to say that ever since the release of Z# Pro it has become much much more forgiving and idiot proof. I have gotten very lazy recently with the Pro version and apply it much thicker than I should on black and have ZERO problems.
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusher
Zaino was never designed to be applied on top of any other detail product. It should only be applied to virgin paint. This has been said many times on this and other forums. Additionally, you DON'T have to use Z-6 between coats. Its optional but not necessary.
So Crusher, what polishing compounds do you use for scratch and swirl removers, since Zaino doesn't make anything (that works) for that? Are you saying that you can't use Zaino over anything but "virgin paint"? You can't use Meguires, or Mothers, or Menzerna polishes before you use the Zaino sealants? Zaino doesn't make your paint shine. It only seals what you already have. Many, many times on this forum it's been said that Zaino is not a polish, regradless of what the name says.
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:59 PM   #20
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JVM225,

Detailing dynamics is a great shop. You can trust their info. However, in the end the cost/effort is about the same. Both are great products that give an amazing finish..Its just that they are made for different things. Regardless of finish, Zaino will outlast Pinnacle. Its a matter of preference more than anything. Pinnacle does look stunning on dark colors, as does Z5Pro.

If you want, we can meet up. Bring a small bottle, Ill give you some Z5Pro to try if you want. Ill be at Captree Sunday AM, or pick a place where we can meet.

Craig

Last edited by Craigster05; 11-24-2006 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:59 PM
 
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