CSixDude

I've got a general question on waxes, and I'm curious if there are any paint experts in the house? What is better for the longevity of the paint, carnuba based waxes applied more often or these new polymer type waxes that last longer? Will polymer waxes with silicone in them do damage to the paint?

I know carnuba gives a better shine and lots of folks like Zaino, but from a standpoint of actually protecting the finish from oxidation and long term damage, what is really the best stuff to use?

I'm currently looking at Meguires new Nxt 2.0 wax and I'm wondering if this has silicone in it and if it is a good wax to use on this car. I'm looking for something I don't have to reapply every few weeks and will last.

http://meguiarsdirect.com/detail/MEG+G12718

CSixDude

I would also be interested in hearing what the "Pros" think about these once a year waxes like Rejex or NuFinish.

Ounce

Of all the things I read on CF about just what you're asking, one thing I can relay with a pretty high confidence level...wax won't last as long as the sealants.

I will now defer to others more learned.


oz

TOGWT

Polymer sealants

Need a porous surface to bond to, they initially adhere by surface tension and then after a period in which the solvents /oils in the carrier system vaporize (outgas) the polymers cross-link to form a covalent (molecular) bond to the surface. This process usually requires 12-24 hours, which are time and temperature and / or humidity dependent.
Note that drying and curing are two different processes. Drying generally refers to evaporation of the solvent or thinner, whereas curing (cross-linking) refers to polymerization of the binder, which imparts adhesion, binds the pigments together, and strongly influences such properties as gloss potential, exterior durability, flexibility, and toughness.

The majority (70%) of a polymer matrix cross-linking cycle occurs within 30 – 45 minutes of its initial wipe-on application drying; however it is recommended that a period of 12 - 24 hours is allowed for the cross-linking process to complete, otherwise polymerization and durability may be compromised. Although it should be noted that surface oils or silicone and / or moisture introduced before the cross-linking process is complete will interfere with the bonding of a polymer and will negatively affect its durability

When polymer chains are linked together extensively by chemical cross linking - the formation of covalent bonds between chains; the polymer is harder and more difficult to melt. Curing is required to allow the monomers (polymer building blocks) to attach to the surface and to polymerize into a crystal-clear, impervious film.

It is very important to allow polymers to cure for 12-24 hours after the haze has been wiped off. If the coating is exposed to contamination such as oil, rain, water, cleaners, etc. before it has cross-linked, the contaminants may interfere with the film, preventing the polymer from achieving its maximum performance and durability. A polymer, unlike wax forms a molecular bond with paint once it’s had enough time to cross-linking.

A unique aspect of polyurethane chemistry is that the hydrogen bonding acts as an additional crosslink, but also allows thermoplastic flow, which helps the paint surface to retain its elasticity and its tensile strength to relieve mechanical stress. The basic structure of a polyurethane clear coat features a soft segment (polyol or tetramethylene ether) which gives it flexibility and elasticity. There is also a hard segment (polymerization) that has high urethane density, which gives the coating hardness and tensile strength

Carnauba wax

Carnauba in today's wax formulas functions mostly as a carrier; it’s used to keep the polymers and oils on your car's surface. Only a small portion of your vehicle's shine comes from the wax itself. Carnauba is translucent at best with only minimal light reflection. It is among the hardest of natural waxes, being harder than concrete in its pure form

This sacrificial barrier is all that stands between the environmental contaminants and the paint film surface and this renewable barrier is probably less than 0.1 µ (100 nm, 0.000 4 Mils or 0.000 004 inch) thick. An applied paint protection product is the barrier that provides protection for automotive paintwork besides the clear coat paint.

An organic wax also provides a sacrificial surface that will resist acid (salt brine, bird excrement, acidic rain, etc) better than a polymer, which forms a molecular bond with the paint, whereas a an organic wax forms a semi-hard protective shell (although it lacks durability of a polymer)


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agentf1

I think as long as the paint is kept protected be it wax every month or sealant every two months or visa versa there probably isn't really any difference. AFAIK there is not anything in either one of those products that is detrimental to paint and the main thing is that you keep your paint protected from the elements and UV rays.

Of course keep in mind I am no paint expert and this is purely opinion based on my personal experience and there is always exceptions to the rule.

You may want to try to use a product be it a sealant or wax that does not have any cleaners and abrasives in them on a regular basis and only use products with cleaners and abrasives when needed for paint correction. I would guess over use of an abrasive product would eventually be counterproductive and damage your finish, that said if you are just doing routine maintenance you should be fine.

CSixDude

Ok, so lets say I have decided to go with a sealant. Who makes the best polymer sealant?

Stan MI

I believe that is a question that is best answered by yourself. Asked here, you will get a lot of answers that are based on what someone has used and had success with. Success being defined by that individual.

I haven't used a lot but I have tried Rejex and NXT and had good results/success with both. My definition of success is: easy on and off, lasts a long time, great (to me) shine. I will be trying Blackfire this Spring.

Good luck with what ever you try !!

blackmachdown

very subjective but here is a list of some popular ones and their cost:

Synthetic Sealants:

$10-$15: Duragloss 105, Duragloss 111, Mother's FX SynWax, Jeff Werkstatt's Acrylic Jet Trigger, Zaino Z-2 Pro

$15-$20: Meguiar's NXT, Mother's Reflections, Finish Kare Hi Temp Synthetic Paste Wax (1000p), 1Z Glanz Wax, Jeff Werkstatt's Acrylic Jet, Poorboy's EX-P, Zaino Z-5 Pro, Ultima Paint Guard Plus (4 oz.)

$20-$30: Blackfire Wet Diamond, Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze, Optimum Opti-Seal (8 oz.), Meguiar's M21 Synthetic Sealant

$30-$40: Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant, Menzerna FMJ, Chemical Guys Jet Seal, Four Star Ultimate Paint Protection, Bilt Hamber Auto Balm


pick your poison

0Killrwheels@Autogeek

I would add the new Menzerna Sealant called Powerlock which is getting alot of attention as new and quite easy to use.

I think the durability (length of protection) goes to a sealant but still have seen no definitive answer as to which may protect better. So I suggest finding something you like and use it often. Most companies even offer booster or spray enhancers to help between washes. They are quick and easy and seem to really keep the look up too !

http://www.autogeek.net/carwax.html
Here's a couple more choices to make the decision even harder

TOGWT

A polymer and a wax are each better at protecting different things.

CliffNotes® Version

An organic wax also provides a sacrificial surface that will resist acid (salt brine, bird excrement, acidic rain, etc) better than a polymer, which forms a molecular bond with the paint, whereas a an organic wax forms a semi-hard protective shell (although it lacks durability of a polymer)

0TH0001@properautocare.com

This is a great question Fred, and if I claimed to have a definitive answer, I'd be lying.

Keep in mind that many waxes and sealants have very different characteristics with in their own class, let alone when compared to each other. Also most of the advances in wax making have come from the use of polymers, similar to those found in sealants. It is getting harder to distinguish what is in the bottle, containor, or tin nowadays. To the best of my research, our Blackfire Midnight Sun (Batch 24) Carnauba Paste was the first boutique wax to take advantage of advanced polymers in its formulation.

To steal a quote from a friend, Mike Phillips, "Find something you like and use it often."

That is, find the product that you like the look of, application of, etc best and reapply it when you notice a degradation in performance or appearance; thus your paint will be well protected for a very long time. While people that are much smarter then me can debate what specific ingredients (mostly likely in both waxes and sealants) will protect paint the most, in the real world, the differences will be negligible.

Use what you like, reapply it before you have to, and enjoy.

(Was not the most complete non-answer ever given?)

If you pressed me though, I would say that Collinite brand waxes provide the best protection I have ever seen, along with excellent durability. However, it could be argued that these are not true waxes, but rather blended waxes that also take advantage of polymers.



If a product is created a certain way by a reputable manufacturer, then it it is likely that it isn't going to cause any harm to the surface it is meant to work on. Meguiar's (for example) would not be in business if the waxes/sealants they made damaged cars.

So if a car care chemist puts an ingredient into a product it is likely to increase the performance of that product with in the parameters it is designed for. My (basic) understanding is that most car care products contain some type of silicone, because silicone is such a broad term. There are good types and bad types of silicone, but again I would say that if the chemist put it there, it belongs there.

For what it's worth, most 'polymers' in waxes and sealants are amino functional silicones. The word has a negative connotation so it widely avoided in marketing though.

Waxes and sealants are pretty similar in terms of function and ingredients, I would be shocked if there is a definitive answer. I would say fine the product you like the best and go from their. To often we give more credence to the name on the label then we do on how the product actually performs.

If we had two cars, each kept in an identical circumstance, but protected with two different products, it would make for an interesting study. However I would wager that as long as each product was applied frequently (before the previous coating degraded significantly) that it would take a looooooooooooong time before any difference in the paint's life could be examined. Of course both of the these cars would look sufficiently better then a third car that was never cared for.

I don't know if Meguiar's NXT has silicone (I would assume yes because it is a synthetic wax that uses polymers which are most likely silicone) in it, but if it does, it is for good reason. Meguiar's is one of the most respected names in car care, and for good reason.

The only knock on NXT has been the durability, or how long it lasts, although 2.0 does out last the original. If you are looking for something with more durability Blackfire Wet Diamond Paint Sealant can last up to six months on cars that are driven fairly frequently, although daily drivers in harsh environments will see less. Weekend warriors or show cars may see more.

However I would personally never go more then three months, just to make sure the protection has begun to degrade.

As you also mentioned, Zaino makes great sealants that last a very long time (likely longer then Blackfire) and have a very unique look which a lot of people love. I cannot say anything bad out there stuff .

Snowwolfe

I use NXT, Rejex, and Meguiars Gold. They all go on easy and wipe off with little fuss.
If any of them offers a better shine no one in my family can detect it. Generally enough crude that will not wash away attaches its self to the paint within 2 months that I need to either rewax to remove it, or clay and rewax. With this in mind, I really don't care if any wax lasts longer than 2 months.

TOGWT

[Will polymer waxes with silicone in them do damage to the paint?]

That a product contains hydrocarbon (petroleum distillates) silicone does not necessarily make that product harmful. Silicone is an inert material and is used primarily to modify or improve certain characteristics; they are sometimes added as a lubricant to provide spread ability thereby making a product easier to apply.

The automotive industry uses polymer silicone as component parts (see polymerisation) in its plastic, vinyl, rubber, paints, and fibreglass as well as in polishes and waxes.

Silicones are inert chemical chains that are truly remarkable; there are thousands of different kinds. They can provide substantial benefits even when they make up only a very small percentage of the finished product. As consumers, we come in contact with all types of products containing silicone almost every day of our lives. It’s everywhere. We’ve even been known to eat the product in such things as cooking sprays and food coatings.

Silicones are primarily used to modify or improve certain characteristics; they are sometimes added as a lubricant to provide spread ability thereby making a product easier to apply. Silicone is a chemical polymer that can be engineered to enhance exceptional water repellence, gloss, and slipperiness and bonding properties,

Silicones are commonly used in automotive products to enhance gloss, make product application and removal easier and improve durability, the functions in a formula that silicone is superior to than any other single ingredient.

There are lots of silicone oils on the market. The properties that make silicone so popular with car detailers, and some auto manufacturers, also make it a very difficult product for the polisher to remove. During polishing, the silicone mixes with oxidised paint and polish abrasive residue that is being removed from the surface by the polish to form a smear. These products and or paint/ polish debris can be removed with a wipe-down process or a specific silicone remover

Dave1

I haven't found one that's better than this.......