Help with getting clear coat scratches out
10-27-2016, 05:25 AM
#21
10-27-2016, 12:12 PM
#22
Depending on how deep the scratches are, try Blue Magic Metal Polish. We use it for fingernail and shallow scratches. But make sure you follow up with a nice glaze and polish.
10-27-2016, 01:39 PM
#23
Safety Car
Lets use the black vette as an example. My clear coat will be fine another 10 + years. So no it is not compromised.
Now if I reduce the clear coat to remove scratches, it "can be" compromised, depending on how many I decide to polish out. If I took them all out, I would have little to no clear coat left.
With an orbital and a good wax, most are not visible unless in the right light.
10-27-2016, 02:11 PM
#24
No sir. unless t is through the clear coat.
Lets use the black vette as an example. My clear coat will be fine another 10 + years. So no it is not compromised.
Now if I reduce the clear coat to remove scratches, it "can be" compromised, depending on how many I decide to polish out. If I took them all out, I would have little to no clear coat left.
With an orbital and a good wax, most are not visible unless in the right light.
Lets use the black vette as an example. My clear coat will be fine another 10 + years. So no it is not compromised.
Now if I reduce the clear coat to remove scratches, it "can be" compromised, depending on how many I decide to polish out. If I took them all out, I would have little to no clear coat left.
With an orbital and a good wax, most are not visible unless in the right light.
Ok, I've let you go on for a long time.........
It's obvious you are NOT familiar with proper paint correction techniques......
To do it correctly, you are not "removing the swirl/scratch", what you are doing in essence is removing the "edge" swirl/scratch.
If the scratch is through the clear coat, it's through it, but if i's not all you are really doing is taking the edge off since that is what's reflecting the light and showing the scratch.
The following 2 users liked this post by ronkh57:
GoFast908Z (10-27-2016),
Killrwheels@Autogeek (10-27-2016)
10-27-2016, 02:51 PM
#25
Drifting
Respectfully I have to disagree with much of what you wrote. And what I am writing is as a professional in the industry.
Orbital is never a tool I would use or recommend, even for swirls. Not because it would hurt your car but simply because they are cheap and inefficient tools. A DA is a far better choice and is safe (unless one attempts something really stupid with it). A rotary is quite powerful and is not for a novice, and is also the reason many fear machine polishing because everyone has seen or heard or experienced a horror story involving a rotary polisher with an operator who is inexperienced.
People bring their cars to me to remove marring in the paint whether its swirls, water spots, sanding scratches, or RIDS (random isolated deep scratches). Will I remove material? Of course. That is what polishes and compounds do.
Not sure what your point is here. Not all scratches can be removed. Most can be minimized. Many can be removed altogether, and safely. Purposefully burning through the clear to remove a scratch is foolish, which is pretty obvious. People do make that mistake on accident though. As a professional I have to decide what to pursue in scratch removal and what not to and to set my clients expectations realistically.
Curious to know where you are getting your data from about thickness?
I have done hundreds of corvettes and have the ability to measure the thickness of the clear coat.
On average modern day vette clear (C5-C7) is about 30 microns thick. If you are removing 1/10th of your clear (3 microns), then yeah you will have problems if that is your go-to method every time you correct the car. If you are removing 2/10ths of your clear (6 microns), you are just bulldozing the clear stupidly. There are a couple circumstances where that is appropriate but never for the average car/person. Proper correction is a scalpel approach.
If I am doing a very extensive correction on a heavily marred car that the owner wants to look as good as is possible I may remove 2 or 3 microns, worst case scenario. This is for paint correction….not “polishing with an orbital”. So for an aggressive correction in which the goal is to reverse years of neglect, you can remove 1/10th, safely. However this is ideally a 1 time event. I educate my clients on how to care for their cars going forward so this level of work doesn’t need to be done again.
Now let’s move on to light polishing. This is for removal of very light defects (swirls). This is going to remove a fraction of a micron, small enough that it cannot be measured. So I’m sorry but occasionally polishing a car in this manner will not shorten the life within 10 years or even longer than that. I have several clients who fit into this bracket that I have been doing their car for 15years, and their paint is in fantastic shape with lots of material left. So it’s nowhere nearly as harmful as you made it out to be, when done properly.
Now the white truck was mine and it has been outdoors for 13 years, and down 4/4 goat trails, and normal wear and tear. It has minor scratches, and it would be idiotic to run a buffer REDUCING clear coat depth. So an orbital was used.
Now the black Z06 is loaded with scratches I bought it that way, if I buffed those out that are everywhere, it would reduce the clear coat to absolutely nothing and also idiotic.
Now the black Z06 is loaded with scratches I bought it that way, if I buffed those out that are everywhere, it would reduce the clear coat to absolutely nothing and also idiotic.
I am curious what you are basing your data on with the black corvette. Just how bad are these scratches? Did a police K9 unit attack the car? And why would you correct the clear to the point it was down to nothing? Sorry this just doesn’t make sense. I understand living with scratches that are deep enough that they are not safe to remove, but living with lots of them that could be safely removed just makes zero sense to me. Then again I like to see a vehicle as visually perfect as it can be, which is why I do what I do. Not everyone cares about making their cars look that good.
I agree, preserving clear coat integrity is paramount. Anyone can just bulldoze defects out. It takes a skilled hand to remove them while preserving as much material as possible, and being proactive about not reintroducing marring in the future. But you can remove some deep defects without compromising your clear, well a professional can.
The following 2 users liked this post by GoFast908Z:
Killrwheels@Autogeek (10-27-2016),
ronkh57 (10-27-2016)
10-27-2016, 03:48 PM
#26
Respectfully I have to disagree with much of what you wrote. And what I am writing is as a professional in the industry.
Orbital is never a tool I would use or recommend, even for swirls. Not because it would hurt your car but simply because they are cheap and inefficient tools. A DA is a far better choice and is safe (unless one attempts something really stupid with it). A rotary is quite powerful and is not for a novice, and is also the reason many fear machine polishing because everyone has seen or heard or experienced a horror story involving a rotary polisher with an operator who is inexperienced.
People bring their cars to me to remove marring in the paint whether its swirls, water spots, sanding scratches, or RIDS (random isolated deep scratches). Will I remove material? Of course. That is what polishes and compounds do.
Not sure what your point is here. Not all scratches can be removed. Most can be minimized. Many can be removed altogether, and safely. Purposefully burning through the clear to remove a scratch is foolish, which is pretty obvious. People do make that mistake on accident though. As a professional I have to decide what to pursue in scratch removal and what not to and to set my clients expectations realistically.
Curious to know where you are getting your data from about thickness?
I have done hundreds of corvettes and have the ability to measure the thickness of the clear coat.
On average modern day vette clear (C5-C7) is about 30 microns thick. If you are removing 1/10th of your clear (3 microns), then yeah you will have problems if that is your go-to method every time you correct the car. If you are removing 2/10ths of your clear (6 microns), you are just bulldozing the clear stupidly. There are a couple circumstances where that is appropriate but never for the average car/person. Proper correction is a scalpel approach.
If I am doing a very extensive correction on a heavily marred car that the owner wants to look as good as is possible I may remove 2 or 3 microns, worst case scenario. This is for paint correction….not “polishing with an orbital”. So for an aggressive correction in which the goal is to reverse years of neglect, you can remove 1/10th, safely. However this is ideally a 1 time event. I educate my clients on how to care for their cars going forward so this level of work doesn’t need to be done again.
Now let’s move on to light polishing. This is for removal of very light defects (swirls). This is going to remove a fraction of a micron, small enough that it cannot be measured. So I’m sorry but occasionally polishing a car in this manner will not shorten the life within 10 years or even longer than that. I have several clients who fit into this bracket that I have been doing their car for 15years, and their paint is in fantastic shape with lots of material left. So it’s nowhere nearly as harmful as you made it out to be, when done properly.
Obviously, the truck gets a little roughed up going down trails and such, and that’s fine. Regularly correcting that truck and then repeating the actions that caused scratches would be idiotic.
I am curious what you are basing your data on with the black corvette. Just how bad are these scratches? Did a police K9 unit attack the car? And why would you correct the clear to the point it was down to nothing? Sorry this just doesn’t make sense. I understand living with scratches that are deep enough that they are not safe to remove, but living with lots of them that could be safely removed just makes zero sense to me. Then again I like to see a vehicle as visually perfect as it can be, which is why I do what I do. Not everyone cares about making their cars look that good.
I agree, preserving clear coat integrity is paramount. Anyone can just bulldoze defects out. It takes a skilled hand to remove them while preserving as much material as possible, and being proactive about not reintroducing marring in the future. But you can remove some deep defects without compromising your clear, well a professional can.
Orbital is never a tool I would use or recommend, even for swirls. Not because it would hurt your car but simply because they are cheap and inefficient tools. A DA is a far better choice and is safe (unless one attempts something really stupid with it). A rotary is quite powerful and is not for a novice, and is also the reason many fear machine polishing because everyone has seen or heard or experienced a horror story involving a rotary polisher with an operator who is inexperienced.
People bring their cars to me to remove marring in the paint whether its swirls, water spots, sanding scratches, or RIDS (random isolated deep scratches). Will I remove material? Of course. That is what polishes and compounds do.
Not sure what your point is here. Not all scratches can be removed. Most can be minimized. Many can be removed altogether, and safely. Purposefully burning through the clear to remove a scratch is foolish, which is pretty obvious. People do make that mistake on accident though. As a professional I have to decide what to pursue in scratch removal and what not to and to set my clients expectations realistically.
Curious to know where you are getting your data from about thickness?
I have done hundreds of corvettes and have the ability to measure the thickness of the clear coat.
On average modern day vette clear (C5-C7) is about 30 microns thick. If you are removing 1/10th of your clear (3 microns), then yeah you will have problems if that is your go-to method every time you correct the car. If you are removing 2/10ths of your clear (6 microns), you are just bulldozing the clear stupidly. There are a couple circumstances where that is appropriate but never for the average car/person. Proper correction is a scalpel approach.
If I am doing a very extensive correction on a heavily marred car that the owner wants to look as good as is possible I may remove 2 or 3 microns, worst case scenario. This is for paint correction….not “polishing with an orbital”. So for an aggressive correction in which the goal is to reverse years of neglect, you can remove 1/10th, safely. However this is ideally a 1 time event. I educate my clients on how to care for their cars going forward so this level of work doesn’t need to be done again.
Now let’s move on to light polishing. This is for removal of very light defects (swirls). This is going to remove a fraction of a micron, small enough that it cannot be measured. So I’m sorry but occasionally polishing a car in this manner will not shorten the life within 10 years or even longer than that. I have several clients who fit into this bracket that I have been doing their car for 15years, and their paint is in fantastic shape with lots of material left. So it’s nowhere nearly as harmful as you made it out to be, when done properly.
Obviously, the truck gets a little roughed up going down trails and such, and that’s fine. Regularly correcting that truck and then repeating the actions that caused scratches would be idiotic.
I am curious what you are basing your data on with the black corvette. Just how bad are these scratches? Did a police K9 unit attack the car? And why would you correct the clear to the point it was down to nothing? Sorry this just doesn’t make sense. I understand living with scratches that are deep enough that they are not safe to remove, but living with lots of them that could be safely removed just makes zero sense to me. Then again I like to see a vehicle as visually perfect as it can be, which is why I do what I do. Not everyone cares about making their cars look that good.
I agree, preserving clear coat integrity is paramount. Anyone can just bulldoze defects out. It takes a skilled hand to remove them while preserving as much material as possible, and being proactive about not reintroducing marring in the future. But you can remove some deep defects without compromising your clear, well a professional can.
10-27-2016, 05:53 PM
#27
Former Vendor
There is often a fear of polishing paint on a vehicle and it stems from individuals that failed to understand the differences in the tools and products needed to complete the job needed. You don't grab a rotary buffer (cutting, heat transfer) and immediately charge into any scratch or marring with a compound and heavy arms. No one offered that a scratch that can be felt by fingernail can be polished out, we all suggest professional repair.
What has been proven without fail ... polishing paint can add significant gloss and reflection and can also remove light scratches and marring. It can be done without significant removal of paint or clearcoat. It should not necessarily be done on a consistent basis, but can be done safely when done properly. You don't start with a compound when a finishing polish is all that's needed. You don't use heavy cutting pads when cleaning paint. Tools exist to measure the amount of paint removed, and often times it will amaze you just how little was removed.
It first comes down to learning good washing and drying techniques. Learning to use protection that matches your environment as well as your time and commitment to it. You can then polish paint without removing a significant level provided you have the right tools, products, and techniques. When in doubt use caution or professional. And if you don't want to do so, then don't.
What has been proven without fail ... polishing paint can add significant gloss and reflection and can also remove light scratches and marring. It can be done without significant removal of paint or clearcoat. It should not necessarily be done on a consistent basis, but can be done safely when done properly. You don't start with a compound when a finishing polish is all that's needed. You don't use heavy cutting pads when cleaning paint. Tools exist to measure the amount of paint removed, and often times it will amaze you just how little was removed.
It first comes down to learning good washing and drying techniques. Learning to use protection that matches your environment as well as your time and commitment to it. You can then polish paint without removing a significant level provided you have the right tools, products, and techniques. When in doubt use caution or professional. And if you don't want to do so, then don't.
The following 2 users liked this post by Killrwheels@Autogeek:
GoFast908Z (10-27-2016),
ronkh57 (10-27-2016)
10-27-2016, 06:36 PM
#28
Safety Car
You completely misunderstand.
You assume they can be safely removed?
You don't get to ride both sides of the fence here. You cannot remove deep scratches and retain the clear coats integrity. Period.
It takes a skilled hand to remove them while preserving as much material as possible,
That's is correct.
But only if they are shallow.
Ive seen many nutjobs clear sand scratches out because they were correcting mistakes on customers cars, instead of doing paint repair correctly.
There is often a fear of polishing paint on a vehicle and it stems from individuals that failed to understand the differences in the tools and products needed to complete the job needed. You don't grab a rotary buffer (cutting, heat transfer) and immediately charge into any scratch or marring with a compound and heavy arms. No one offered that a scratch that can be felt by fingernail can be polished out, we all suggest professional repair.
What has been proven without fail ... polishing paint can add significant gloss and reflection and can also remove light scratches and marring. It can be done without significant removal of paint or clearcoat. It should not necessarily be done on a consistent basis, but can be done safely when done properly. You don't start with a compound when a finishing polish is all that's needed. You don't use heavy cutting pads when cleaning paint. Tools exist to measure the amount of paint removed, and often times it will amaze you just how little was removed.
What has been proven without fail ... polishing paint can add significant gloss and reflection and can also remove light scratches and marring. It can be done without significant removal of paint or clearcoat. It should not necessarily be done on a consistent basis, but can be done safely when done properly. You don't start with a compound when a finishing polish is all that's needed. You don't use heavy cutting pads when cleaning paint. Tools exist to measure the amount of paint removed, and often times it will amaze you just how little was removed.
That is the caution I was originally implying.
Just how bad are these scratches?
To deep to buff out without removing half the clear coat
And why would you correct the clear to the point it was down to nothing?
Why would you is the question, I never implied such.
But you can remove some deep defects without compromising your clear, well a professional can.
As someone skilled in painting cars as well as spot repair with an airbrush to an art form, and detailing to what ever can be as far as paint is concerned, Yes you/I can remove deep scratches and I rarely use a buffer for spot repair, by hand often does a better job until I'm ready to bring the shine back to the paint.
Orbital is never a tool I would use or recommend, even for swirls. Not because it would hurt your car but simply because they are cheap and inefficient tools
A DA is a far better choice and is safe
Yes in the right hands in most applications.
So it’s nowhere nearly as harmful as you made it out to be, when done properly.
Light polishing is fine, but light polishing only addresses so many corrections.
And what I am writing is as a professional in the industry.
You not alone, but these replies are often applied by people that are not who wish to tackle corrections themselves.
I stated from the beginning there is a balance to be maintained when reducing scratches in clear coats, and it would be a personal problem of yours if you disagree.
10-27-2016, 06:40 PM
#29
Safety Car
There is often a fear of polishing paint on a vehicle and it stems from individuals that failed to understand the differences in the tools and products needed to complete the job needed. You don't grab a rotary buffer (cutting, heat transfer) and immediately charge into any scratch or marring with a compound and heavy arms. No one offered that a scratch that can be felt by fingernail can be polished out, we all suggest professional repair.
What has been proven without fail ... polishing paint can add significant gloss and reflection and can also remove light scratches and marring. It can be done without significant removal of paint or clearcoat. It should not necessarily be done on a consistent basis, but can be done safely when done properly. You don't start with a compound when a finishing polish is all that's needed. You don't use heavy cutting pads when cleaning paint. Tools exist to measure the amount of paint removed, and often times it will amaze you just how little was removed.
It first comes down to learning good washing and drying techniques. Learning to use protection that matches your environment as well as your time and commitment to it. You can then polish paint without removing a significant level provided you have the right tools, products, and techniques. When in doubt use caution or professional. And if you don't want to do so, then don't.
What has been proven without fail ... polishing paint can add significant gloss and reflection and can also remove light scratches and marring. It can be done without significant removal of paint or clearcoat. It should not necessarily be done on a consistent basis, but can be done safely when done properly. You don't start with a compound when a finishing polish is all that's needed. You don't use heavy cutting pads when cleaning paint. Tools exist to measure the amount of paint removed, and often times it will amaze you just how little was removed.
It first comes down to learning good washing and drying techniques. Learning to use protection that matches your environment as well as your time and commitment to it. You can then polish paint without removing a significant level provided you have the right tools, products, and techniques. When in doubt use caution or professional. And if you don't want to do so, then don't.
That is the caution I was looking for.
10-27-2016, 06:49 PM
#30
Safety Car
I understand living with scratches that are deep enough that they are not safe to remove,
Then in this case, you should have had no criticism for my first reply. Because my message was obviously a warning for someone who was not a professional, and states just about exactly what you stated above.
10-27-2016, 06:50 PM
#31
Safety Car
Lot of ego stroking in here LOL 
10-27-2016, 06:50 PM
#32
Drifting
Ok, enough of the silly quoting. Not even going to address the ridiculous things, you just want to be right.
If you are trying to make a logical point please define your terms.
What is deep? What is shallow? How much material is too much?
You didn't answer key questions in this regard, I can only figure because you do not know. I put in fairly exacting numbers. You speak in subjective terminology.
I tried.
Have a nice day.
If you are trying to make a logical point please define your terms.
What is deep? What is shallow? How much material is too much?
You didn't answer key questions in this regard, I can only figure because you do not know. I put in fairly exacting numbers. You speak in subjective terminology.
I tried.
Have a nice day.
The following users liked this post:
ronkh57 (10-27-2016)
10-27-2016, 07:45 PM
#33
