Koni Sport Yellow Ext-Adj's on Early C4's ???
05-16-2006, 01:31 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Koni Sport Yellow Ext-Adj's on Early C4's ???
I've done a lot of searching and then some.
Basically what it comes down to, is I don't think QA1s are worth the money when I know that the Koni's are out there and they work better for the jobs I plan to use them for (auto-x mainly)
However Koni doesn't make the sports for early C4s....
Sooooooo, who has put the late C4 sports on their early C4?
What is the difference between the two?
Thanks guys!
Basically what it comes down to, is I don't think QA1s are worth the money when I know that the Koni's are out there and they work better for the jobs I plan to use them for (auto-x mainly)
However Koni doesn't make the sports for early C4s....
Sooooooo, who has put the late C4 sports on their early C4?
What is the difference between the two?
Thanks guys!
05-16-2006, 12:23 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
late c4 front shocks are longer
The key difference is that the later C4 shocks are about one inch longer. This means that you could have a problem with bottoming out if you tried to use them on the earlier cars. If you try to cut the bump stops that could be very bad, (in the movie Ghost Busters this was defined as every molecule of you body exploding at the speed of light... well, it isn't that bad, but) it could damage the foot valve and ruin the shock, so cutting the bump stop isn't a good idea at all.
I really liked the ability to quickly adjust the sports on my (later) C4's, so I feel your pain, and Koni's have the best valving for autocross, bar none, but I think that you are stuck with the harder to adjust (remove and reset for each adjustment) sports for the early cars, or you could talk to a Koni dealer and see if they could mod a set of later shocks to shorten them about an inch. This might not be a bad or really very expensive proposition, if you are willing to live with a bit less jounce travel.
I really liked the ability to quickly adjust the sports on my (later) C4's, so I feel your pain, and Koni's have the best valving for autocross, bar none, but I think that you are stuck with the harder to adjust (remove and reset for each adjustment) sports for the early cars, or you could talk to a Koni dealer and see if they could mod a set of later shocks to shorten them about an inch. This might not be a bad or really very expensive proposition, if you are willing to live with a bit less jounce travel.
05-16-2006, 03:50 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Solofast
The key difference is that the later C4 shocks are about one inch longer. This means that you could have a problem with bottoming out if you tried to use them on the earlier cars. If you try to cut the bump stops that could be very bad, (in the movie Ghost Busters this was defined as every molecule of you body exploding at the speed of light... well, it isn't that bad, but) it could damage the foot valve and ruin the shock, so cutting the bump stop isn't a good idea at all.
I really liked the ability to quickly adjust the sports on my (later) C4's, so I feel your pain, and Koni's have the best valving for autocross, bar none, but I think that you are stuck with the harder to adjust (remove and reset for each adjustment) sports for the early cars, or you could talk to a Koni dealer and see if they could mod a set of later shocks to shorten them about an inch. This might not be a bad or really very expensive proposition, if you are willing to live with a bit less jounce travel.
I really liked the ability to quickly adjust the sports on my (later) C4's, so I feel your pain, and Koni's have the best valving for autocross, bar none, but I think that you are stuck with the harder to adjust (remove and reset for each adjustment) sports for the early cars, or you could talk to a Koni dealer and see if they could mod a set of later shocks to shorten them about an inch. This might not be a bad or really very expensive proposition, if you are willing to live with a bit less jounce travel.
Ghostbusters. Thanks Manny, I was reading over our conversation the other night about the Koni development too. I'll be calling Koni myself soon. Question is, do they actually make the sports, though different in style for the Early C4? Or do they just make the red ones (comfort?) ?
We'll see...
05-16-2006, 05:49 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
They made a sports for the older cars at one time. This is what Roger Johnson used forever.. He was the one who ran his without bump stops and took out the foot valves. He didn't realize it until he was getting his butt kicked and took the car out on the street and realized it was floating all over the place....
Not sure how much travel you need, but maybe you could just shorten the shaft about 3/4 of an inch. Might not be the prettiest thing but if you did that and maybe cut the compression rubber another 1/4 of an inch you would be there. As a last resort, they can make you up a set of what you want, but it won't be cheap, but it won't be horrible either...
Not sure how much travel you need, but maybe you could just shorten the shaft about 3/4 of an inch. Might not be the prettiest thing but if you did that and maybe cut the compression rubber another 1/4 of an inch you would be there. As a last resort, they can make you up a set of what you want, but it won't be cheap, but it won't be horrible either...
OUCH.... That hurts....
05-22-2006, 09:46 PM
#7
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If my memory serves me correctly, another difference was the width of the shock tower. I believe the earlier towers were narrower, but I am going off my memory from a car that I owned 9 years ago.
Go with the Koni's, they are worth every penny, I just ordered a set of sports for my 90 today
You won't regret it, they ride so nicely on the street, and handle very well on the autox course.
Jeff
Go with the Koni's, they are worth every penny, I just ordered a set of sports for my 90 today
You won't regret it, they ride so nicely on the street, and handle very well on the autox course.Jeff
05-23-2006, 12:58 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Ok I just called Koni.
They are a softer valving for the 84-87 8040 shocks.
He suggested running them at 1/4 ro 1/2 tighter and then if they don't work getting them revalved.
However I did get min/max length on the 84-87 8040 shocks and the 89-96 8241 shocks.
Front:
84-87 8040
Max length: 349mm Min Length: 261mm
89-96 8241
Max length: 344mm Min Length: 261mm
Rear:
84-87 8040
Max length: 352mm Min Length: 241mm
89-96 8241
Max length: 377mm Min Length: 250mm
However I don't really know exactly about interpret that. Manny I am looking your way...
I am thinking...maybe 89-96 Sports up front with 8040s in rear at 1/2 turn ??? It might be doable....
Anybody have pictures of the 89-96 Sports?
They are a softer valving for the 84-87 8040 shocks.
He suggested running them at 1/4 ro 1/2 tighter and then if they don't work getting them revalved.
However I did get min/max length on the 84-87 8040 shocks and the 89-96 8241 shocks.
Front:
84-87 8040
Max length: 349mm Min Length: 261mm
89-96 8241
Max length: 344mm Min Length: 261mm
Rear:
84-87 8040
Max length: 352mm Min Length: 241mm
89-96 8241
Max length: 377mm Min Length: 250mm
However I don't really know exactly about interpret that. Manny I am looking your way...
I am thinking...maybe 89-96 Sports up front with 8040s in rear at 1/2 turn ??? It might be doable....
Anybody have pictures of the 89-96 Sports?
05-23-2006, 04:05 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Yea, I didn't realize that the difference in max length up front was the only difference. I thought that it was different in both cases and that there wasn't enough compression travel for the older shocks. You learn something new every day.
If you put the 89/96 shocks on the front of the older car you are only going to see a difference at full extension, and then it is only going to be 5mm or about .2 inches. That probably isn't going to be much of an issue. The worst case would be, if you find yourself wheel lifting and that starts to cause push at the limit, is to space it down by .1 or .2 inches. If you did that the loss of compression travel is only going to be .2 inches and that is really nothing. Since you are at stock ride height, I would probably just pull the rubber and washer off of the top and put a couple of washers between the cover and the lower washer and be done with it.
In the rear I'm not sure that the 8040's compression damping would be right or a good match to the fronts. While you can probably get close in rebound, you don't know where you are in compression, so you are likely better with the sports back there, since we know that they will work with the fronts. The problem is how do you handle the longer compressed length. I don't think the increase in extended length is going to be an issue, other than the fact that the wheels will droop more when you are up changing tires. Loosing 10mm in compression travel probably isn't a big deal either. Think about it, if you lowered the car 10mm would you be worrying about available shock travel? Probably not. There are a couple of things you can do though if you want to get it closer to right.
One is modding the rear shock bracket. You could take a stock bracket, cut out the center to the diameter of the mount rubber, weld in a 10mm length of tube and weld a washer on top. This will give you the correct compressed length, and be 15mm long in extension, but that isn't going to be an issue. Since this comes off with the shock, I would consider it part of the shock and is therefore free.
Another option, and maybe the best, is to just move the groove and the stop on the shaft down 10mm, buzz off the old stop and then just put it back together. You are probably going to have to make an new stop, but you can likley use a snap ring for that if you hit it with a welder to close up the ring once it is on there.
So really you have a couple of options that can work, and neither are really very expensive.
If you put the 89/96 shocks on the front of the older car you are only going to see a difference at full extension, and then it is only going to be 5mm or about .2 inches. That probably isn't going to be much of an issue. The worst case would be, if you find yourself wheel lifting and that starts to cause push at the limit, is to space it down by .1 or .2 inches. If you did that the loss of compression travel is only going to be .2 inches and that is really nothing. Since you are at stock ride height, I would probably just pull the rubber and washer off of the top and put a couple of washers between the cover and the lower washer and be done with it.
In the rear I'm not sure that the 8040's compression damping would be right or a good match to the fronts. While you can probably get close in rebound, you don't know where you are in compression, so you are likely better with the sports back there, since we know that they will work with the fronts. The problem is how do you handle the longer compressed length. I don't think the increase in extended length is going to be an issue, other than the fact that the wheels will droop more when you are up changing tires. Loosing 10mm in compression travel probably isn't a big deal either. Think about it, if you lowered the car 10mm would you be worrying about available shock travel? Probably not. There are a couple of things you can do though if you want to get it closer to right.
One is modding the rear shock bracket. You could take a stock bracket, cut out the center to the diameter of the mount rubber, weld in a 10mm length of tube and weld a washer on top. This will give you the correct compressed length, and be 15mm long in extension, but that isn't going to be an issue. Since this comes off with the shock, I would consider it part of the shock and is therefore free.
Another option, and maybe the best, is to just move the groove and the stop on the shaft down 10mm, buzz off the old stop and then just put it back together. You are probably going to have to make an new stop, but you can likley use a snap ring for that if you hit it with a welder to close up the ring once it is on there.
So really you have a couple of options that can work, and neither are really very expensive.
Last edited by Solofast; 05-23-2006 at 04:12 PM.
05-25-2006, 12:36 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I'm with you.
Thanks man!
I think I am going to try to locate either some old ones or somebody near by that has the Koni's so I can verify that they will work...
I am excited!!! It would be so nice if they work out for me!
Thanks man!
I think I am going to try to locate either some old ones or somebody near by that has the Koni's so I can verify that they will work...
I am excited!!! It would be so nice if they work out for me!
