Hot August Days - Carolina
08-28-2006, 05:13 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Hot August Days - Carolina
It is truly amazing - to me anyway - that in only seven weeks, three days, eight hours and fifteen minutes it is possible to lose focus and corporate memory. When we went to load up for the Carolina Motorsports Park event with Turnone for last weekend it was like we had forgotten everything about the process. We spent inordinate amounts of time looking for helmets, chatterboxes, tools, cots, track boxes, coolers, tires, DVD player, grill, etc. that have migrated to other locations in the hiatus since the last track event. After the expenditure of considerable emotional energy we finally loaded up the truck, trailer with the ZO6 plus "stuff" on board and the 99 FRC Vette in convoy to make it to the track for tech on Friday night by 2000 (8 PM EST). As a corrective action I am developing a plasticized checklist with attached grease pencil to be filled out every outing!
Getting through registration, unloading at the track, getting teched and setting up Friday night was painless. Amazingly, we only left behind a couple of nice to have items for the weekend (e.g., electric drill to speed up tire swaps). As a very special treat we stayed at the Holiday Inn Express in Camden on Friday night. I figured hotel cost is about the same as feeding Jake breakfast on the road - especially since I used "points" for the room.
There was a good turnout for the weekend. Everything from a C6 ZO6 to a vintage Alfa Romeo race car was there. Several "track ho's" were there and it is always fun to have some familiar faces in the paddock - and on the track.. Rob and ROAR Racing showed up with their fleet of RX8s and support semi's to test for the Utah Grand Am next weekend. Jody and Big Pine Key Motorsports showed up to test for NASA nationals next month in Ohio - thankfully, minus his pit babes I might add. Aardvark Performance showed up in our 12 year old trailer to see if our clutch job would take a track test and then make it back home. Toby showed up just to visit for a while and catch dinner since he did not get a student this weekend. One CMP regular even showed up in a different car - JohnT was in a very nice 930 slant nose instead of his 240Z with a V8. It was very nice since I got to pass him once in while, for a change, while he sorted out the new ride - which ran for the whole weekend I might add.
Jake and I really lucked out with students - we both kept it "in the family" with fine young men of known lineage. Jake's student had a prepped "street" RX8 that really ROARed - if you get my drift. One thing I noticed about the RX8 crowd is they are into pirouettes (known as a spin to most of us) - but maybe it is a technique they use to throw off the competition - kind of like a opossum playing dead. My student (guess we could call him Lil' Butt or Lil' Ped?) was from the "Butt Ugly" race team driving his mother's C5 , and unlike my oldest son when driving his mothers car (05 GTO), treated it with respect and dignity. We both really enjoyed our students and they progressed quite nicely. Jake was even able to get a passenger seat view of the RX8 pirouette technique, twice I believe. He even explained it to me - get the car loaded up in the corner at the edge of traction and apply throttle until tire stiction is exceeded - simple executable concept if you ask me.
The track was very slick from all the recent heavy rains washing all the rubber residue off. With the heat and slick track everybody was having grip issues - there were a fair number of pirouettes and spins. I know we did our part in laying down a good base of Sumitomo, Kumho and Hoosier rubber on the track. Once again we honed our abilities to drive expired tires and well used brakes to the best of our meager abilities. It was quite a shock to Jake to have to drive on "glassy tires" instead of the "good stuff" - it was quite a shock to me to see him fishtailing the ZO6 in turn 3. He mumbled something about his life flashing before his eyes since I had just told him about gentle throttle inputs on old tires, especially in Turn 3, the only real common place to hurt a car bad when you go off at CMP.
To keep things interesting we eventually put the near new Hoosiers (4 heat cycles or 1 day at VIR) on the FRC with its ZO6 pads (~12 hard track days on them). It took daily bleeding was to keep a decent pedal on the car. The team manager decided to leave the rode hard Kumho MXs on the ZO6 with new Carbotech XP8 pads. These combos seemed to really help teach optimizing the car you have instead of the perfect car you want to have. Almost anybody can drive a ZO6 fast with great pads and tires - just watch Jody sometime....at least that's my story and I am sticking to it. By Sunday Jake was lapping the field quite well in a stock LS1....
The only real eye opener all weekend was the front left hub on my students C5 having the three bolts holding it on come loose! Wally was able to take one bolt out with his fingers. The brakes had been acting funny all day - pulling, loss of pedal, noise and an intermittent ABS/Brake Inop light. It was suffering piston knockback occasionally with a pedal to the floor then a pedal that would work fine for a few turns. Luckily, trouble shooting eventually found the problem before it came off on the track. After it was determined the repair needed tools ( I did have a new spare hub though!) we did not have at the track it was loaded on the trailer and taken home on Sunday. I did manage to take a bolt in a rear tire on the ZO6 - that makes two tires trashed at CMP due to bolts for me. At least this time it went flat in the paddock instead of at 120 mph entering Turn 8.
Staying out of the sun, drinking plenty of water, getting service at Gus's Restaurant and keeping focused on the task at hand was the only real safety threats all weekend. Looking forward to doing it again real soon..... 8 Sep I think is the plan
Until then I am back at work to fund the "tires for the needy" program.
Getting through registration, unloading at the track, getting teched and setting up Friday night was painless. Amazingly, we only left behind a couple of nice to have items for the weekend (e.g., electric drill to speed up tire swaps). As a very special treat we stayed at the Holiday Inn Express in Camden on Friday night. I figured hotel cost is about the same as feeding Jake breakfast on the road - especially since I used "points" for the room.
There was a good turnout for the weekend. Everything from a C6 ZO6 to a vintage Alfa Romeo race car was there. Several "track ho's" were there and it is always fun to have some familiar faces in the paddock - and on the track.. Rob and ROAR Racing showed up with their fleet of RX8s and support semi's to test for the Utah Grand Am next weekend. Jody and Big Pine Key Motorsports showed up to test for NASA nationals next month in Ohio - thankfully, minus his pit babes I might add. Aardvark Performance showed up in our 12 year old trailer to see if our clutch job would take a track test and then make it back home. Toby showed up just to visit for a while and catch dinner since he did not get a student this weekend. One CMP regular even showed up in a different car - JohnT was in a very nice 930 slant nose instead of his 240Z with a V8. It was very nice since I got to pass him once in while, for a change, while he sorted out the new ride - which ran for the whole weekend I might add.
Jake and I really lucked out with students - we both kept it "in the family" with fine young men of known lineage. Jake's student had a prepped "street" RX8 that really ROARed - if you get my drift. One thing I noticed about the RX8 crowd is they are into pirouettes (known as a spin to most of us) - but maybe it is a technique they use to throw off the competition - kind of like a opossum playing dead. My student (guess we could call him Lil' Butt or Lil' Ped?) was from the "Butt Ugly" race team driving his mother's C5 , and unlike my oldest son when driving his mothers car (05 GTO), treated it with respect and dignity. We both really enjoyed our students and they progressed quite nicely. Jake was even able to get a passenger seat view of the RX8 pirouette technique, twice I believe. He even explained it to me - get the car loaded up in the corner at the edge of traction and apply throttle until tire stiction is exceeded - simple executable concept if you ask me.
The track was very slick from all the recent heavy rains washing all the rubber residue off. With the heat and slick track everybody was having grip issues - there were a fair number of pirouettes and spins. I know we did our part in laying down a good base of Sumitomo, Kumho and Hoosier rubber on the track. Once again we honed our abilities to drive expired tires and well used brakes to the best of our meager abilities. It was quite a shock to Jake to have to drive on "glassy tires" instead of the "good stuff" - it was quite a shock to me to see him fishtailing the ZO6 in turn 3. He mumbled something about his life flashing before his eyes since I had just told him about gentle throttle inputs on old tires, especially in Turn 3, the only real common place to hurt a car bad when you go off at CMP.
To keep things interesting we eventually put the near new Hoosiers (4 heat cycles or 1 day at VIR) on the FRC with its ZO6 pads (~12 hard track days on them). It took daily bleeding was to keep a decent pedal on the car. The team manager decided to leave the rode hard Kumho MXs on the ZO6 with new Carbotech XP8 pads. These combos seemed to really help teach optimizing the car you have instead of the perfect car you want to have. Almost anybody can drive a ZO6 fast with great pads and tires - just watch Jody sometime....at least that's my story and I am sticking to it. By Sunday Jake was lapping the field quite well in a stock LS1....
The only real eye opener all weekend was the front left hub on my students C5 having the three bolts holding it on come loose! Wally was able to take one bolt out with his fingers. The brakes had been acting funny all day - pulling, loss of pedal, noise and an intermittent ABS/Brake Inop light. It was suffering piston knockback occasionally with a pedal to the floor then a pedal that would work fine for a few turns. Luckily, trouble shooting eventually found the problem before it came off on the track. After it was determined the repair needed tools ( I did have a new spare hub though!) we did not have at the track it was loaded on the trailer and taken home on Sunday. I did manage to take a bolt in a rear tire on the ZO6 - that makes two tires trashed at CMP due to bolts for me. At least this time it went flat in the paddock instead of at 120 mph entering Turn 8.
Staying out of the sun, drinking plenty of water, getting service at Gus's Restaurant and keeping focused on the task at hand was the only real safety threats all weekend. Looking forward to doing it again real soon..... 8 Sep I think is the plan
Until then I am back at work to fund the "tires for the needy" program.
08-28-2006, 08:33 PM
#2
Safety Car
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Thanks for the report, sounds like it was a fun weekend. I have to get down to CMP this next year, I have never run that track. It would not be too far a haul from VA.
08-29-2006, 05:37 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by CHJ In Virginia
Thanks for the report, sounds like it was a fun weekend. I have to get down to CMP this next year, I have never run that track. It would not be too far a haul from VA.
08-29-2006, 10:47 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
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Postmortem on the C5 showed that all three hub bolts had loosened but were still in place. We had just bought this car used and I suspect that the hub may have been replaced and not torqued properly. There was no Locktite on the bolts, but I'm not sure that makes any differance with the heat these parts are subjected to. I have disassembled, repaired, re-assembled, locktited (if that is even a word) and re-torqued all the bolts. All is well that ends well, but this was certainly an eye opener and scary at best. one more thing to check before the car goes on track.
08-29-2006, 11:01 AM
#5
Race Director
Nice write up............tires......
The list
I have 3 incase Julie looses the other 2 
The hubs...........I keep an eye on ours as this type issue has come up in the past:
At least the lower ball joint nut keeps the bottom one from falling out
The list
I have 3 incase Julie looses the other 2 The hubs...........I keep an eye on ours as this type issue has come up in the past:
At least the lower ball joint nut keeps the bottom one from falling out
08-29-2006, 04:25 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
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Nice write-up as always Jeff! I'm doing my 'no tropical storm/hurricane' dance as we speak (while working making 'tire-money') in hopes we can still get to CMP this coming weekend!
Julie!
08-29-2006, 04:46 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by WNDOPDLR
Postmortem on the C5 showed that all three hub bolts had loosened but were still in place. We had just bought this car used and I suspect that the hub may have been replaced and not torqued properly. There was no Locktite on the bolts, but I'm not sure that makes any differance with the heat these parts are subjected to. I have disassembled, repaired, re-assembled, locktited (if that is even a word) and re-torqued all the bolts. All is well that ends well, but this was certainly an eye opener and scary at best. one more thing to check before the car goes on track.
- What tools do I need in the trailer to do the job?
We are having high winds and lightning storms here getting ready for the storm I guess...
The lower one may not be able to fall out but it sure can flop around
08-30-2006, 08:34 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
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With some advise from Falcon (now THAT is a scary proposition), all you need is a BFH, 13/16 and 18mm sockets, #55 torx bit, 6mm allen wrench, torque wrench and all the tools you need for removing the caliper/rotor.
Park the car with the wheel turned one way or the other and locked at the steering column. Remove wheel, caliper, and rotor. Loosen but do not remove nut from end of tie rod at steering knuckle and tap-OK beat-loose, removing tie rod end. If you don't change the position of the treaded tie rod end, you don't need to worry about alignment. The steering knuckle will now turn enough to give you complete access to the top two torx bolts. Next loosen the lower control arm ball joint nut and tap it out of the steering knuckle. With that removed, you can get to the lower torx bolt. Now that I have done it once- it is probably a 45 minute job.
Park the car with the wheel turned one way or the other and locked at the steering column. Remove wheel, caliper, and rotor. Loosen but do not remove nut from end of tie rod at steering knuckle and tap-OK beat-loose, removing tie rod end. If you don't change the position of the treaded tie rod end, you don't need to worry about alignment. The steering knuckle will now turn enough to give you complete access to the top two torx bolts. Next loosen the lower control arm ball joint nut and tap it out of the steering knuckle. With that removed, you can get to the lower torx bolt. Now that I have done it once- it is probably a 45 minute job.
08-30-2006, 10:05 AM
#9
Safety Car
I did the same, but did not mess with the tie rod. Very easy job.
BTW, my drivers side hub bolts were loose exactly as you described, and the hub had never been removed from the car. I could pull the wheel about 1/8 in. I went ahead and replaced the bearings anyway, now I have two spares.
I would suggest that everyone do a visual check on those bolts before each event. Maybe an out of balance tire could have vibrated them loose?
BTW, my drivers side hub bolts were loose exactly as you described, and the hub had never been removed from the car. I could pull the wheel about 1/8 in. I went ahead and replaced the bearings anyway, now I have two spares.
I would suggest that everyone do a visual check on those bolts before each event. Maybe an out of balance tire could have vibrated them loose?
08-30-2006, 10:08 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by WNDOPDLR
With some advise from Falcon (now THAT is a scary proposition), all you need is a BFH, 13/16 and 18mm sockets, #55 torx bit, 6mm allen wrench, torque wrench and all the tools you need for removing the caliper/rotor.
The hardest part of the job, for me anyway, was getting the ball joint out of the lower control arm. I had to beat that thing like a rented mule 'til it finally released.
08-30-2006, 11:48 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by BLONDE C5
Nice write-up as always Jeff! I'm doing my 'no tropical storm/hurricane' dance as we speak (while working making 'tire-money') in hopes we can still get to CMP this coming weekend!
Julie!
If you are referring to the Turn 1 event on 9/8, it has been cancelled. Just got an email from Sylvia.
Wally
08-30-2006, 01:24 PM
#12
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No need to mess with the tie rod and you can keep the wheels straight. I have done this many times, much to my dismay. 
I did it once between half hour run sessions (front wheels only).
Jody did you not get that big ball joint pickle fork I told you about. It makes the job real sweet and you don't need to beat that rented pit babe of yours. Oh, they are not rented in your case. Free goupies for you. 
I did it once between half hour run sessions (front wheels only).Jody did you not get that big ball joint pickle fork I told you about. It makes the job real sweet and you don't need to beat that rented pit babe of yours.
Oh, they are not rented in your case. Free goupies for you.
08-30-2006, 01:45 PM
#13
Race Director
Originally Posted by WNDOPDLR
Julie-
If you are referring to the Turn 1 event on 9/8, it has been cancelled. Just got an email from Sylvia.
Wally
If you are referring to the Turn 1 event on 9/8, it has been cancelled. Just got an email from Sylvia.
Wally
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1410178
08-30-2006, 01:47 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
I was afraid of tearing the ball joint boot with the pickle fork.
08-30-2006, 05:24 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Cisitalia
Just be careful not to rupture the ball joint condom. It can be done. I have also used a crow-bar that worked quite well. No need to beat it, just pry it a part.
It can be done. I have also used a crow-bar that worked quite well. No need to beat it, just pry it a part.Jody LIKES to beat it
09-04-2006, 07:17 PM
#17
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
8 Sep was cancelled at CMP - they seem to have a drop in attendance. Most events I go to seem to be pretty full but they are mostly Sat/Sun - anyone else notice events on weekdays drying up?
jeff
jeff