Slalom4me

A forgotten lesson was reinforced last weekend when I went
out in a loaner car at an event here.

A local shop brings out a german car and for a modest fee
lets anyone take it out for three timed runs. For fun and
to warm up with some non-offical laps, I signed up to drive
the loaner.

I asked whether there were any special considerations and
they said nope, just get in and drive it. I had watched
earlier participants and thought they entered the brake box
gingerly so I made a point of feeling out the brakes.

Well, the first run went great. I was slow but I got a sense
for how everything worked - brakes actually felt pretty good.

So on the next run, I decide to work it harder and by the
end of the run I was feeling pretty confident and so I charged
into the brake box more as I do with my C4.

Well, without ABS, you can guess what happened. Good initial
decelleration - then poof! Lots of noise and smoke. Eulogies
for several long serving cones. Laughter. Thudding tires.

I'm not sure how many here still run equipment that is not equipped
with ABS but as time goes by, I expect the numbers will dwindle.
To those who may only have ever driven cars with brake/stability/
traction control - if you get an opportunity to get behind the wheel
of an old school car, take it. I think it is good to (re)discover
what you are shielded from behind the curtain.

.

wtknght1

...been preaching that for a long time!

xsiveone

It saddens me to see all of these new cars with all the electronic nannies. Some of them are helpful in some situations on the street, but they take away from the purity of driving. That's why I would rather have a Ferrari F40 than a Ferrari Enzo.

That's why I love that you can turn off traction control and active handling with the C5 Corvette (I wish I could turn off the ABS without pulling a fuse).

Some of these newer cars (Lexus) don't allow you to defeat these systems. I don't know that I could ever own a Lexus because of that.

This is also why cars like the Lotus Elise/Exige appeal to me. Lightweight when new cars are getting heavier and heavier and they have a minimal amount of electronic controls.

yellow01

too.

I haven't (and won't ) be removing ABS from the vette anytime soon because I do drive street, but otherwise at the track it is computer off for me! I kind of view it as cheating, honestly.

xsiveone

Hey.. But the electronic aids are safer. This is another example of where safety is starting to take all the fun out of driving.

96CollectorSport

I remember reading toward the end of the Unfair Advantage that Porsche came out with an early ABS set-up and Donohue was amazed how much easier it was to drive the car. I believe he had some kind of comment like, racing in the future will be less and less about the driver.

I don't know why you guys don't like ABS I do, it keeps my tires round!

RedHotBolt

What he said....I agree!

J

StArrow68

Well, when in a Russell open wheel car I agree, driving with no aids is fun and there is a deductible that I've never exceeded. When driving my coupe at Reno-Fernley I have been out several days with the TC/AH off and it is fun and I did better lap times, too. But, when driving at Sears Point/Infineon where one little bobble has collected more cars than I like to think about into the concrete (ask Jr.), I'll keep the AH and ABS gladly. There is a time for everything.
Randy

xsiveone

It's nice that you have TC and AH on the Corvette, but it's even nicer that you can turn it off.

TRACKMAN2

you could drive my z with your helmit on backwards

varkwso

I have flat spotted my fair share of tires the old school way - and hope to continue to!

NoOne

Whats worse is they design the chassis around the stability control.

I've heard C6's, especially the C6 Z06 is down right scary for your normal driver with AH off. It becomes an interim fix for some handling issues that never get worked out because of ESP and other systems masking the problem.

I still like the systems for regular road driving. An example...last night we were out and had an incredibly slow driver in a double right hand turn lane. I'm on the outside, he is on the inside and of course, turns right to the outside. It was raining and we were in our Liberty with ESP. Short wheel base, a lot of fun to throw around(no I'm not kidding), but tempermental in the rain. I was able to keep on the throttle, get around him and let the car do the work in a tight situation which would have been a lot more dangerous if I were driving the car solo. The ESP was going off like mad but it kep the car straight for the most part while I was able to get around. Without ESP/ABS I would ended up locking up and most likely sliding into the curb or the other car.

There are places for it. In snow I know I would much rather have no ABS and very grabby brakes but those don't play together well with ABS.

European brakes are grabby, American's don't like grabby. Most vehicles we've owned I get a set of the Euro spec pad material, generally makes them much easier to drive in crappy weather.

AU N EGL

With all the new Gov mandates, new cars will have more electonic aids that can't be turned off. Guess we have to learn how to drive these too.

Active Handleing
Traction Control
Yaw control
ABS
TPS and run flats
Brake assist ( for the nannys who dont brake hard enough or get too close to other cars )
DoD - Displacement on Demand

GPS - Heck plug in the course and speed, let the car do the rest while you take a nap.

robvuk

Where did you hear this??? I'd like to hear more about this subject.

I think the car handles great with the AH off. One of the very best as a matter of fact.

Lancer033

I'll give you that only because "normal" drivers just don't know how to handle a sports car, the same could be said for any Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, Viper, ect.

It's not that the car, it's the driver.

69autoXr

My traction control is my right foot, my ABS is my left foot.

xsiveone

It's all because some idiots, who don't know how to check their tire pressures, like to drive their SUV's like sports cars.

AU N EGL

Nawww. Most of the guys who experience AH or TC issuess just dont know how to drive.

We have had a lot of guys say they had AH/TC come on all the time before they took a NCM school. afterwords they say they almost never see it.
Leaning to drive at any HPDE ( Not open track days) with an instructor in the right seat is a lesson eveyone can benift from.

95jersey

I have NEVER felt ABS come on during a track session. I have jabbed at the brakes and push the car hard, but never felt them come on. Are they coming on without me knowing? I always thought ABS pulsated very noticeably

2000BSME

Not quite so noticeably any more.