Sully C5

When I read the Standards for Roll Bars, there are requirements that are identified as "must be" or "shall be", others as "strongly recommended", "recommended", and "suggested". Other than specific, mandated requirements, can I assume we have some latitude? And how can a tech guy at the track interpret a "suggested" aspect? Keep in mind that I am looking to run HPDE events.

AU N EGL

There is some lattitude. Tech at HPDEs can be from "yup you got one" too "where is the hole so we can check wall thinkness?".

and do you have roll bar padding.

Is the roll bar above your helmet? 2 or more inches is best.

Main Hoop that extends fuly across the back with down tubes into the floor and frame behind the seats. Two down tubes into the trunk area attached to the frame of the car.

Diagonal in the main hoop( upper behind driver to lower behind passange ) and a cross bar ( shoulder level ) too attach your harness straps.

No swing out bars or down bar into the passanger compartment.

Size of tubing for weight of the vette.

Sully C5

That's what I was wondering.

Thanks

AU N EGL

Besides most ppl will think you have a FRC.

More for your saftey.

AU N EGL

Sully

Take a look at PFADT roll bar

http://www.pfadtracing.com/products/...&search=&page=

Falcon

I wonder what the feet of the roll bar attach to behind the seats?

Aaron Pfadt

We bolt (or weld) into the B-pillar. The only other good option is to build a three sided box and weld it into the bulkhead (requires removing the gas tank) and the longitudinal with the third 'side' sitting on the fiberglass floor. Some scrutineers might balk at the bends at the bottom, but it is better, in my opinion, than having it supported by a fiberglass floorpan.

-Aaron

69autoXr

Why is that?

Do you reject cars equipped with such at your HPDE's?

AU N EGL

Most HPDEs will reject diagonal down bar in the passanger compartment UNLESS there is no rear frame to mount down tubes on. Also most instructors will not get into a car with a diagonal down bar right in front of their chest.

We use the SCCA Solo I tech rules as a minimum for roll bars at the NCM HPDEs.

We also ask ppl to remove swing out door bars.

Space and safty for instructors.

We did have a few students we asked Not to use their new harness do to improper mounting. The stock seat belts were safer.

69autoXr

Guess I won't be attending any NCM events.

vms4evr

Can you bolt in a rollbar and pass SCCA or most clubs instead of welding it in? (as long as it has 4 mount points and mounted just like it would be welded)

Looking at the Pfadt rollbar. The harness mount bar sits right on top of that little ledge in the C5. That seems awfully low for a harness mount point. I thought the bar was supposed to be a couple of inches above your shoulder?

AU N EGL

is your car the one in the avitar? if you have a SCCA or NASA log book and have passed their tech, then not a problem. ( Instructors self tech)

Part of the reason we do this is many ppl want to use a 'so called' or cheap roll bars in verts. or Roll hoops in verts or want to get by with minimal roll bars that are not bolted or welded to the frame of the car.
One guy had a roll bar in a C4 vert that was three inches below his head. Roc talked to this guy before he signed up.

I have had one Harness bars not bolted in properly and if you tug hard on the harness the haness bar pulled out.

Safty is one of our concerns. Most ppl are great, but a few just want to get by as cheaply as possible. Kind like wareing WW I leather flying helmet and calling it a helmet or a 20 year old motocycle helmet

Most of our students are novice, beginner and intermedate level with a few advance students and 30 to 40 Instructors. We have a great safty record and excellent feed back from the tracks we have been too.

Many of our instructors teach at other schools and like and endorse our school. I take a lot of feed back from our instructors as they are the ones that make the events for students.

the NCM HPDEs are not race schools. Students are not tea totalling around the track either.

Every student has an in car instructor and we do not sign off Novice or intermedate students. I let our instructors know that teach your students as much as they fell comfotable with and then a bit more. There is always something to learn.

If someone comes to us saying they know it all and have nothing to learn, great. There are pleanty of other events to attend.

Tom

Sully C5

I see on your site that the roll bars are for a Coupe & FRC. Anything for convertibles?

Sully C5

I underlined an important comment in your post. As many times as I have been at the track, I am always learning. Sometimes I think that is a 'never ending' endeavor.

Question >>> Do all students start in Novice regardless of track time? I believe that I read some where that R-Compound tires are not allowed. All I have driven for the last two years (street & track) is Nitto RII; I just don't get adequate traction from street tires. Would I need to get a set for HPDE?

BrianCunningham

Since we have a rollhoop from the factory, albeit a heavy one, I still can't see why we can't just run diagonals to it.

AU N EGL

No we look at previous HPDE & auto-x history then adjust all studends run groups based on the total population. We tend to have TWO novice groups ( Green and Yellow) 0-3 previous HPDEs, Intermeiate ( Blue) 4-7 or 10 HPDEs, and Advance 10+.

Normally most clubs use Green ( Beginner) as 0-3, Yellow ( novice) 4-7, Blue ( Intermedate) 8-14, and Advance ( BLack ) 15+ previous HPDEs or weekends. Or something close to these. Again adjusted to the whole population.

I know one guy last fall had 17 hpdes and was put into the intermedate group. He was a little upset and wondered why? He found out that there were 42 guys with 40+ HPDEs or races under their belts ( end of the race seasons) which filled up the Advance group.

For NCM events we do not allow R compounds in Beginer or Intermedate groups. Street tires only. Many clubs do this too. Only in the Advance group and Instructor group do many car clubs allow DOT R or R compounds. Now that being said, I dont rember too many tech inspections checking tires. Also if a beginner shows up with R compounds we are not going to kick him out. We just let that pesons instructor know and use his best judgment with that student.

Nito RIIs are more of a street tire then a DOT R so those are not a problem.

Each Car club is slightly different as to the number of schools, their tech and what tires you can or can not use. You never know until you get to the track. Read the registration material for each school before you sign up.

Most schools here in the Mid Atlantic to South East are great car clubs. Some Porsche clubs only allow Porshes first then Porsche club members in good standings then non members. Some Porsche clubs are more open

Some BMW clubs full up there events with BMWs members first then fill in remaining slots with other Invited marques ( Porsche )

Audi has always allows any car as long as the member was an Audi Club member.

NASA does as well. NASA has started their TT series, which is very popular and will continue to grow. Watch out for the Falcon, 2nd at Nationals this year in his class. NASA also has races to watch, lotsof good things.

THSCC does the same, allows any car and many times gives discounts to Vette drivers even if they are not THSCC members.

You wind up joing lots of car clubs and get all kinds of magazines just to get track time.

There are soo many car clubs and events, we the consumer can pick and choose which track we want to go too on any given weekend, April though October.

There is one instructor here in Raleigh who does 25 HPDEs a year.