L98Terror

Is there possibly any truth to this?

wallyman424

no.

L98Terror

http://www.lsall.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4803

wallyman424

i cant see that without registering, but honestly:

- 3600lbs vs. 3200lbs
- weight balance
- suspension

They both have about the same power. The big drawbacks to the camaro are the weight and suspension.

L98Terror

I know what your saying and I've been to the track enough times to know, but this guy is presistant and I figured I ask a few other places so I don't look like a total a$$ if I'm wrong.

sleeper02Z06

First, you need to get the guy to clarify what he was using. He says "a stock 1le equipped Camaro SS". Well, you either have a 1le or an SS. You can't have both, unless you mix and match the parts, then it ain't stock. Based on the little info I have, I am getting the feeling someone has no clue what they are talking about.

For comparison, I used to own a 1999 Camaro SS. When it was bone stock I was able to turn 1:28 and change at Summit Point. I went 1:25 and change when my Z06 was stock. In T1 trim I was able to go 1:21.9 for a few laps in a National race. Not sure where a C5 Z51 would fit in, but I'd bet in between the SS and the Z06 when they were stock.

The suspension is not really the factor that holds the Camaro back as much as it is the wieght, lack of brakes, and lack of tire. It actually handles and reacts a LOT better than people think. Most who cry foul on them have never turned the wheel of one.

tchapma1

There are 1LE SS Camaros. Not very many, but there are some out there. Friend has an 99 Orange 1LE SS.

Not his car, but another one.
http://www.webspawner.com/users/huggerss/

VetteDrmr

C5 Z51 doesn't tell you much. You can have a coupe, FRC, or 'vert. M6 or A4, which comes with a 2.73 or 3.15 rear end (not sure if Z51 specifies 3.15)

Z51 is a suspension mod, only (OK, and a PS cooler).

Have a good one,
Mike

fa63

Well, a 1LE SS with no power options (seats, windows, etc..) probably weighs around 3400 lbs, and some dyno results I have seen show that the LSx Camaros make a little more horsepower than the Corvette equivalent. So it might be a close race, but who knows.

I have never driven a Corvette on a road-race of autoX course, but on smooth race tracks Camaros aren't too shabby and are very predictable at the limit. If the pavement is bumpy, it is a different story, though. However, I would think the Corvette would be slightly faster given equivalent drivers.

L98Terror

History..long story short I stated a F-body could never beat a C5 on a road course (given equal drivers) of course I'm thinking me in my Z06 and him in his SS but this is what he came back with..

Timz06

I ran my 95 LT1 z28 this weekend against Jeff's 99 FRC in the NASA TTB time trial at Roebling. Jeff (actually his son) ended up beating me by .6 seconds (1:21.8 to 1:22.4). I was on old tires, with better tires I may have pulled it out. Who knows, next time Jeff and I are going to both be on new tires.

My car is not stock either, I have heads/cam (about 400 rwhp), stripped out interior (car still weighs 3400 lbs) coil over suspension, corvette front brakies, etc. I was pulling the corvette (which has headers but otherwise stock) a few lenghts during the straight but he was getting me in braking, and in the long sweeping turns.

Jeff is also a very good driver, and has a lot of experience at Roebling.

You just mentioned in the last post that the camaro ss has heads and cam. That would put him well over 400 hp at the wheels, and maybe 450. That's 100 hp over a stock c5. With a good driver, and some race tires, I'm sure he could be competitive. Also would depend on the track.

Owning both cars (z06 and z28.) It takes a lot to get a LT1 z28 to keep up with a z06. Don't forget that the z28 is much harder to drive, a z06 will practically drive itself.

StArrow68

Well, since I have a Z51 C5 and I don't remember seeing any at Spring Mountain for the past several years at least I'm surprised at the comparison. I guess they used Camaro's before the Z06 and that probably means they had Z51's at some point but seems like ancient history. I'd like to hear Dave or Victor have a view. Since the Z06 came out the Z51 is not the weapon of choice for most who track, except for a few like me that got it and then found out about going to tracks. I know there are fast Camaro's in the CMC out this way but like Vettes on the track, not much stock with good drivers.
Randy

0Randy@DRM

Some people just don't get it.

Randy

L98Terror

Does anyone have contact info for Dave or Victor? I'd like to put this to rest one way or another

sleeper02Z06

Wow, that is really cool! Man, learn something new everyday! I had an "standard" SS with the Hurst shifter. Mine was a '99 too. It was Red, like my Z06. Even though I love the Vette, I still miss that car sometimes!

Trasi

Hello everyone!
The indivudual that is referring to the C5Z51, must have come years ago...we no longer have them; 23 other Corvettes though, {C5 Z06's, C6 Z51's and C6Z06's} The C5Z51 Corvette was still a few seconds quicker and far more consistant than the slower, heavier, smaller tired Camaro. The brakes on the Camaros are a lot smaller and the Camaro is 200-400 lbs heavier (the car is heavier, the brakes heat up faster, it takes longer to slow down, ultimately reducing track times). Also, all of our camaros were fully loaded SS models, which makes them heavier yet. If it appeared that the Camaro was faster here at Spring Mountain, it is only due to the instructors experience :-) (for those of you that don't know, the instructors use our Camaros as lead cars, and oftentimes still do!)..

Motorwise, they are very similar, but the Camaro has a smaller cam and single exhaust.

Let us know if there are any other questions

Trasi, Kenny, Dave P., Dave R. & Victor; Spring Mountain Motorsports

RogueVette

Straight from the Horses mouth.

Thanks for setting it straight.

StArrow68

Thanks, Trasi and thanks to the Dave's and Victor as well, again.

Making me feel good about my Z51 ... as I watch Z06 tail lamps disappear in the distance ...
Randy

DREGSZ

Having Raced C4s and Third gen camaros, (both w excessive HP) and a not stock Z28 4th gen with a much better suspension then whatever the General puts in the 1LE .
I can tell you that at almost any road course the vette even the C4 will smoke any F bod.
Now maybe Spring Mountain is some kind of unnatural annomoly and a camaro is faster but not at Laguna, Infineon or Thunder Hill.

A few years ago Steve Millen tested pairs of cars for R&T or MT mag and compared an SS Camaro to a C5 vette, at Thunder Hill (I don't even think it was a Z06) His lap times were consistantly 8 seconds faster in the vette.
I considered that a very good example..

A lowered F bod w suspension parts is much faster then a stock suspension car.
I ran a Full race C4 with the same exact motor and tranny, taken from my full race 3rd gen Camaro. (It was a bit of a technical under taking, thank you Alan Blaine)
At Laguna Seca my best ever time in the Camaro was a 1:47.xx
In the Vette it was a 1:43.04
Both Cars weighed about 2750#s, the Camaro had 1LE brakes, (same as late C4) the C4 had C5 front calipers.

Another reasonable comparison was Alan Blaine (7 race winner and season champ in SCCA Group 1, ITE) in a very well prepped 4th gen Camaro race car with extra ponies ran his fastest lap at Laguna Seca at a 1:43xx in the Camaro, (The track record in Group 1 was at that same time held by a C4 vette, unbroken for about 4 years, at 1:41.xx) The Very same season Scotty B set the Group 3 T1 record at Laguna W 1:37.xx, and I guarantee that Camaro was prepped way beyond what would be comparatively legal for T1, (T1 is near stock, ITE is ANYTHING Goes)

maybe Spring Mountain is some kind of weird annomoly of a track but in CA vettes are about 5 seconds per lap faster then camaros at most California tracks, that is roughly .5 seconds per turn on average.

DREGSZ

There are good drivers in CMC but no fast Camaros