Road Atlanta....Hot, Hot, Hot!!!!!!
08-13-2007, 10:08 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Road Atlanta....Hot, Hot, Hot!!!!!!
A fun weekend at times, but hotter than any event I can remember. 110* in the shade.
Saw a lot of the Forum guys and got to say "Hey!"
A lot of carnage on track and that's never a good thing to see.
Saw a lot of the Forum guys and got to say "Hey!"
A lot of carnage on track and that's never a good thing to see.
08-13-2007, 10:24 AM
#2
Race Director
fill us in on what happened Sunday....Saturday seemed relatively clean (except for Mazdarati Bob's setting a good example).
Anyway, fill us in. I wasn't able to get back to the track Sunday
Anyway, fill us in. I wasn't able to get back to the track Sunday
08-13-2007, 11:10 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Saturday was pretty uneventful, but Sunday was action packed.
My car was running hot on Saturday because the radiator shroud wasn't connected properly so I worked on that Sunday morning before qualifying. I drilled some holes through the shroud so that I could zip tie the pieces together. As I was leaving the paddock to go to qualifying, I saw a puddle of water under the car.
Yep, obviously I let the drill bit touch the radiator core and made a small hole. My day was done.
That probably wasn't bad because the Thunder race was terrible.
Here's how the race went:
In the Thunder race, car "A" was coming down the start/finish straight about mid track. Car "B" was coming down the straight, track left, passing car "A". For some reason car "A" turns ever so slightly to the left, and clips the right front of car "B".
Car "B" is able to continue straight and his engine dies at pit out on the far left side of the track. Car "A" goes into the wall (after contact with car "B") just before pit out with his left side and some how almost makes Turn 1 on the outside but goes off about halfway up hill at turn 1and hits the tire wall track left.
It was a mess.
The yellow flag is out at turn one as the rest of field is now entering lap 2 with the pole sitter in a high horsepower car battling with an old, but fast, NASCAR. As the pole sitter is going down the back straight in 5th gear (probably 150+) his differential explodes and oils down the long back straight. His car is on fire and he's getting out.
Other than the lost diff., he was all right and is towed back in. They redflagged the race, and with 2 long straights oiled down, they brought everyone back in instead of making them fry sitting on the side of the track.
I'm not sure how many laps they got, but it couldn't have been more than 3.
In the Blitz race a car turned over in Turn 3. No one hurt.
Probably more carnage at this event than any I've ever seen.
My car was running hot on Saturday because the radiator shroud wasn't connected properly so I worked on that Sunday morning before qualifying. I drilled some holes through the shroud so that I could zip tie the pieces together. As I was leaving the paddock to go to qualifying, I saw a puddle of water under the car.
Yep, obviously I let the drill bit touch the radiator core and made a small hole. My day was done.
That probably wasn't bad because the Thunder race was terrible.
Here's how the race went:
In the Thunder race, car "A" was coming down the start/finish straight about mid track. Car "B" was coming down the straight, track left, passing car "A". For some reason car "A" turns ever so slightly to the left, and clips the right front of car "B".
Car "B" is able to continue straight and his engine dies at pit out on the far left side of the track. Car "A" goes into the wall (after contact with car "B") just before pit out with his left side and some how almost makes Turn 1 on the outside but goes off about halfway up hill at turn 1and hits the tire wall track left.
It was a mess.
The yellow flag is out at turn one as the rest of field is now entering lap 2 with the pole sitter in a high horsepower car battling with an old, but fast, NASCAR. As the pole sitter is going down the back straight in 5th gear (probably 150+) his differential explodes and oils down the long back straight. His car is on fire and he's getting out.
Other than the lost diff., he was all right and is towed back in. They redflagged the race, and with 2 long straights oiled down, they brought everyone back in instead of making them fry sitting on the side of the track.
I'm not sure how many laps they got, but it couldn't have been more than 3.
In the Blitz race a car turned over in Turn 3. No one hurt.
Probably more carnage at this event than any I've ever seen.
08-13-2007, 11:57 AM
#5
Safety Car
These events are popular, and there are just too many cars on track. The combining of HPDE3 and 4 and setting TT free placed a lot of 3 people with the 4's that probably should not even be in 3. They are easily confused and don't have an instructor, out with people that want to pass anywhere on track. The biggest cluster that I saw, occurred when a session was started while a car was being towed off track. They posted a double yellow at each station, as there was a pace car on track. People were completely confused by the double yellow and were slamming on their brakes at every yellow. With about 50 cars on track, this caused a huge jam, and I even stopped twice, and at every station slowing down to 10 mph. This went on for two laps, and was very unsafe.
In HPDE 3/4, the cars were not arranged in any order. I do not understand why the slowest people on track grid and front, leaving half the cars on track to pass. Even informally, it would make sense for them to grid farther back. I know when I have a fast car I like to grid in front, and if I am slow, I will just wait...the more passing you can minimize, the better, as this is where incidents happen, just common sense to me.
I think NASA should limit the number of participants, I also feel that the TT is an accident waiting to happen, as you have people hauling out there passing without a point, and no safety equipment.
In HPDE 3/4, the cars were not arranged in any order. I do not understand why the slowest people on track grid and front, leaving half the cars on track to pass. Even informally, it would make sense for them to grid farther back. I know when I have a fast car I like to grid in front, and if I am slow, I will just wait...the more passing you can minimize, the better, as this is where incidents happen, just common sense to me.
I think NASA should limit the number of participants, I also feel that the TT is an accident waiting to happen, as you have people hauling out there passing without a point, and no safety equipment.
08-13-2007, 12:26 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
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These events are popular, and there are just too many cars on track. The combining of HPDE3 and 4 and setting TT free placed a lot of 3 people with the 4's that probably should not even be in 3. They are easily confused and don't have an instructor, out with people that want to pass anywhere on track. The biggest cluster that I saw, occurred when a session was started while a car was being towed off track. They posted a double yellow at each station, as there was a pace car on track. People were completely confused by the double yellow and were slamming on their brakes at every yellow. With about 50 cars on track, this caused a huge jam, and I even stopped twice, and at every station slowing down to 10 mph. This went on for two laps, and was very unsafe.
In HPDE 3/4, the cars were not arranged in any order. I do not understand why the slowest people on track grid and front, leaving half the cars on track to pass. Even informally, it would make sense for them to grid farther back. I know when I have a fast car I like to grid in front, and if I am slow, I will just wait...the more passing you can minimize, the better, as this is where incidents happen, just common sense to me.
I think NASA should limit the number of participants, I also feel that the TT is an accident waiting to happen, as you have people hauling out there passing without a point, and no safety equipment.
In HPDE 3/4, the cars were not arranged in any order. I do not understand why the slowest people on track grid and front, leaving half the cars on track to pass. Even informally, it would make sense for them to grid farther back. I know when I have a fast car I like to grid in front, and if I am slow, I will just wait...the more passing you can minimize, the better, as this is where incidents happen, just common sense to me.
I think NASA should limit the number of participants, I also feel that the TT is an accident waiting to happen, as you have people hauling out there passing without a point, and no safety equipment.
08-13-2007, 12:51 PM
#7
Race Director
As is being discussed in the NASA forum, unless people want to pay more for entry fees, crowding will always be an issue.
I agree about HPDE 3/4/instructors being pretty bad, but I enjoyed the 2 sessions I ran. It was supposed to be passing anywhere with a point, which most people seemed to interpret as "ride my *** for 4 laps and then MAYBE I'll let you by". I was almost literally PUSHING the little Scion race car around the track for a full 3 laps before he let me by.. I enjoy passing people (who doesn't) so I never rush to the grid, but anyone who has reached group 3 status should have learned how to use their mirrors and give points.
While in theory, I do like the fact that TTer's can go "racing" without having to cage a car, safety issues to concern me. Unfortunately, traffic skills aren't being learned as quickly as speed skills, and incidents are becoming more frequent. btw, this (more speed than skill) is also abundant in the wheel-to-wheel groups.
I agree about HPDE 3/4/instructors being pretty bad, but I enjoyed the 2 sessions I ran. It was supposed to be passing anywhere with a point, which most people seemed to interpret as "ride my *** for 4 laps and then MAYBE I'll let you by". I was almost literally PUSHING the little Scion race car around the track for a full 3 laps before he let me by.. I enjoy passing people (who doesn't) so I never rush to the grid, but anyone who has reached group 3 status should have learned how to use their mirrors and give points.
While in theory, I do like the fact that TTer's can go "racing" without having to cage a car, safety issues to concern me. Unfortunately, traffic skills aren't being learned as quickly as speed skills, and incidents are becoming more frequent. btw, this (more speed than skill) is also abundant in the wheel-to-wheel groups.
08-13-2007, 04:10 PM
#8
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I think the TT's are getting way too fast to get on the track w/out saftey equipment. Did you look at the vette that was bundled up on the front straight? I talked to that guy and he was a mess....the doc's told him he broke a bunch of ribs. A cage, proper seat, etc and he would have been fine.
NASA-SE is growing...FAST. thats a good thing. its gonna have some growing pains and Jim has been adapting to the various problems as they come up. I think the biggest problem is that NASA is hell bent in keeping to the "schedule". I used to think this was good, when there weren't so many cars. Now that the place was packed, i'm not so sure.
Sometimes it seemed like cars would go out and two laps later the session would be over. The SCCA is 10 minutes behind after the first event....and it only goes downhill from there. But everybody gets their alloted time.
NASA-SE is growing...FAST. thats a good thing. its gonna have some growing pains and Jim has been adapting to the various problems as they come up. I think the biggest problem is that NASA is hell bent in keeping to the "schedule". I used to think this was good, when there weren't so many cars. Now that the place was packed, i'm not so sure.
Sometimes it seemed like cars would go out and two laps later the session would be over. The SCCA is 10 minutes behind after the first event....and it only goes downhill from there. But everybody gets their alloted time.
08-13-2007, 05:26 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
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I think the TT's are getting way too fast to get on the track w/out saftey equipment. Did you look at the vette that was bundled up on the front straight? I talked to that guy and he was a mess....the doc's told him he broke a bunch of ribs. A cage, proper seat, etc and he would have been fine.
NASA-SE is growing...FAST. thats a good thing. its gonna have some growing pains and Jim has been adapting to the various problems as they come up. I think the biggest problem is that NASA is hell bent in keeping to the "schedule". I used to think this was good, when there weren't so many cars. Now that the place was packed, i'm not so sure.
Sometimes it seemed like cars would go out and two laps later the session would be over. The SCCA is 10 minutes behind after the first event....and it only goes downhill from there. But everybody gets their alloted time.
NASA-SE is growing...FAST. thats a good thing. its gonna have some growing pains and Jim has been adapting to the various problems as they come up. I think the biggest problem is that NASA is hell bent in keeping to the "schedule". I used to think this was good, when there weren't so many cars. Now that the place was packed, i'm not so sure.
Sometimes it seemed like cars would go out and two laps later the session would be over. The SCCA is 10 minutes behind after the first event....and it only goes downhill from there. But everybody gets their alloted time.
Scheduling has become an issue with other regions like In/Ohio & Midwest as well. Its apparent that there are drivers have become more aggressive and think their "street" cars on street tires can compete against fully race prepped cars. At Road America, most of the carnage was in the HPDE 3/4/TT groups. Ironically all nasa race groups stayed unscathed as the Yokohama Cup & Skip Barber Races experienced the worst losses and ate up most of the time for HPDE.
Last edited by rudyarias; 08-13-2007 at 05:37 PM.
08-13-2007, 05:54 PM
#10
I ran in HPDE 2 and didn't have many issues, but I agree that there were a lot of people even in my group that shouldn't have been there. I was a little surprised to learn that a red flag means to slam on your brakes to some of the other drivers.
I decided to skip my last session after the huge oil spills from the Thunder race on Sunday, how long did it take them to get it cleaned up?
I decided to skip my last session after the huge oil spills from the Thunder race on Sunday, how long did it take them to get it cleaned up?
08-13-2007, 06:52 PM
#11
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Close to 90 minutes. Kyle you did a great job, you ran fast and smart. I hope your dad enjoyed the ride.
I ran in HPDE 2 and didn't have many issues, but I agree that there were a lot of people even in my group that shouldn't have been there. I was a little surprised to learn that a red flag means to slam on your brakes to some of the other drivers.
I decided to skip my last session after the huge oil spills from the Thunder race on Sunday, how long did it take them to get it cleaned up?
I decided to skip my last session after the huge oil spills from the Thunder race on Sunday, how long did it take them to get it cleaned up?
08-13-2007, 06:57 PM
#12
Pro
I ran in HPDE 2 and didn't have many issues, but I agree that there were a lot of people even in my group that shouldn't have been there. I was a little surprised to learn that a red flag means to slam on your brakes to some of the other drivers.
I decided to skip my last session after the huge oil spills from the Thunder race on Sunday, how long did it take them to get it cleaned up?
I decided to skip my last session after the huge oil spills from the Thunder race on Sunday, how long did it take them to get it cleaned up?
I am not sure what time we (DE2) finally got out, close to 5(?). But then they combined 1 and 2 and that was interesting. Some VERY slow and inexperienced DE 1 drivers out there; one spun on T5 and backed his Lotus into the wall. Similar to combining the De 3 and DE 4's. The event was fun but way to many cars on the track. I know they need to make money but safety is an issue also. I agree with an earlier comment that a number of the sessions were shortened by at least 5 minutes.
Great time however, and great people. Good turn out of vettes.
C5 XTC
08-13-2007, 08:01 PM
#13
Race Director
Again, I'm not pointing fingers, but I've done a lot of various events this year, and there are tons of fast, yet BAD drivers. Even in instructor groups I'm seeing extremely poor, unsafe driving
Being fast, even aggressive, is one thing, but you've got to have respect for others around you and the extremely potent equipment that is ridiculously cheap and easy to buy these days.
Being fast, even aggressive, is one thing, but you've got to have respect for others around you and the extremely potent equipment that is ridiculously cheap and easy to buy these days.
08-13-2007, 08:37 PM
#14
08-13-2007, 08:46 PM
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I wondered how hot it had to get to be "hotter than hades" and I think I found out Friday at RA. Saturday cooled down to only a few degrees above 100 and Sunday was cooler in the paddock but action on the track heated up; at one point I thought the ambulances and tow trucks were a new run group since so many were on the track for so long.
Despite the oppressive heat, drivers and all participants proved once again to be a class act with friendliness and assistance abundant in the crowded paddock. Bottled ice water and cold neck towels were more coveted than the odd size wrench that usually heads the paddock list of things I need and don't have.
Success is a challenge and the increased popularity of HPDE is stressing NASA in all regions. Jim & Julie do a great job, but a sell-out crowd leaves no margin for the inevitable yellow and red flag delays. And when you have drivers entered with rental cars, it is a sign that the range of drivers and cars has also reached its limit.
Since every driver is a genius and knows everything (if you don't believe it, post a request for advice on best pads, or tire size, etc. and see how many opinions you get), Jim might solicit participant suggestions on how to make the events beter and safer. My free advice worth every bit of its cost is to review track procedures at the first morning "all hands" meeting, for example, red flags mean check your mirror and track position before full stop - if over the crest of a hill pull up to flag stand to allow other drivers to crest the hill and stop without mating with your or other vehicles. And on the first day some selective black flags for drivers needing some gentle education on track etiquette will get the message spread that it is not your personal track.
Sunday was "stuff happens" day reminding us that everything matters and if something doesn't feel right, running the next lap a little faster is not the way to find out what's wrong. I rode with Varkswo Sunday after lunch and a mild shake when braking was an exit signal and at a minimum we (actually Tim) found a cracked rotor and further inspection may find more problems. We hate to loose a session, but loosing a car is worse.
Some more free advice: Xtasy, lighten your car and run times will improve, start by taking out the floor mats; Jim, consult some aviation experts on terminal velocity - you are approaching lift-off; C6Raptor, late award for longest drive to the track; Jeff, it looks like it may be a few more years before you are the fastest (i.e. only) family member at the track; Rudy, either your license plate is in a foreign language or you are a worse speller than Tom; the two drivers of the black Z06s - thanks for the point bys especially since you are better drivers than your husbands! Oh, oh, shouldna said that. Shortthrow, missed you and the Beast, enjoy the other RA.
All in all, great time, thanks to all who made the event fun.
Despite the oppressive heat, drivers and all participants proved once again to be a class act with friendliness and assistance abundant in the crowded paddock. Bottled ice water and cold neck towels were more coveted than the odd size wrench that usually heads the paddock list of things I need and don't have.
Success is a challenge and the increased popularity of HPDE is stressing NASA in all regions. Jim & Julie do a great job, but a sell-out crowd leaves no margin for the inevitable yellow and red flag delays. And when you have drivers entered with rental cars, it is a sign that the range of drivers and cars has also reached its limit.
Since every driver is a genius and knows everything (if you don't believe it, post a request for advice on best pads, or tire size, etc. and see how many opinions you get), Jim might solicit participant suggestions on how to make the events beter and safer. My free advice worth every bit of its cost is to review track procedures at the first morning "all hands" meeting, for example, red flags mean check your mirror and track position before full stop - if over the crest of a hill pull up to flag stand to allow other drivers to crest the hill and stop without mating with your or other vehicles. And on the first day some selective black flags for drivers needing some gentle education on track etiquette will get the message spread that it is not your personal track.
Sunday was "stuff happens" day reminding us that everything matters and if something doesn't feel right, running the next lap a little faster is not the way to find out what's wrong. I rode with Varkswo Sunday after lunch and a mild shake when braking was an exit signal and at a minimum we (actually Tim) found a cracked rotor and further inspection may find more problems. We hate to loose a session, but loosing a car is worse.
Some more free advice: Xtasy, lighten your car and run times will improve, start by taking out the floor mats; Jim, consult some aviation experts on terminal velocity - you are approaching lift-off; C6Raptor, late award for longest drive to the track; Jeff, it looks like it may be a few more years before you are the fastest (i.e. only) family member at the track; Rudy, either your license plate is in a foreign language or you are a worse speller than Tom; the two drivers of the black Z06s - thanks for the point bys especially since you are better drivers than your husbands! Oh, oh, shouldna said that. Shortthrow, missed you and the Beast, enjoy the other RA.
All in all, great time, thanks to all who made the event fun.
08-13-2007, 09:25 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
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Again, I'm not pointing fingers, but I've done a lot of various events this year, and there are tons of fast, yet BAD drivers. Even in instructor groups I'm seeing extremely poor, unsafe driving
Being fast, even aggressive, is one thing, but you've got to have respect for others around you and the extremely potent equipment that is ridiculously cheap and easy to buy these days.
Being fast, even aggressive, is one thing, but you've got to have respect for others around you and the extremely potent equipment that is ridiculously cheap and easy to buy these days.
08-13-2007, 09:38 PM
#19
I am new to these type of events, but I think it was well organized and I had fun. It was very hot, but still very much worth the trip. I decideded to wait for the oil cleanup on Sunday, and once on track I cracked a rotor on the first lap and ended my day. Oh well, I learned a lot, and had a great time. I am looking forward to my next event.
08-13-2007, 09:42 PM
#20
Safety Car
Here is a vid of a few laps in the DE3/4 in my stock 95 camaro
http://www.timz06.com/movies/RA071.wmv
No clean laps, but a good time...testing out a new motor, took me until sunday to get a clean run down the back straight, hard to get a feel for the car and get any kind of rythm with so many slow cars, but it was fun...I just take it for what it is.
Tim
http://www.timz06.com/movies/RA071.wmv
No clean laps, but a good time...testing out a new motor, took me until sunday to get a clean run down the back straight, hard to get a feel for the car and get any kind of rythm with so many slow cars, but it was fun...I just take it for what it is.
Tim