mwvettec5

I spent this entire summer chasing my tail trying to find the best trackday solution.

Started out with a '95 Mustang that had been built by HP Motorsports with all the right Mustang/Ford track mods - this car was less than exciting, not nearly as fast as I was wanting and it sold after 2 months.

Then I bought a monster '97 coupe with CCW wheels, LG coilovers, rollbar, harness, etc, and an ECS installed supercharger that dynoed at 826 RWHP. This car was fast but difficult to keep cool after about 6-7 laps. Nice car but not the hot tip for for a road course.

Today I'm left with my '05 C6 Z-51 that has an LG cam, heads, headers, exhaust and ZO6 bars, Bilsteins, SS brake lines, brake cooling ducts, PS2s, and etc.

Over the last 30 years, I've raced Corvettes & Camaros in SCCA Production & GT-1 classes, so I have some driving experience. And also know the pitfalls of expense, maintenance, etc etc etc

What I'm trying to decide is should I spend more $$$ on my C6 and take it to the track (so far it's sat in the garage while the other 2 cars went to the track) or buy a "real" racecar like a T-1 car, ex SCCA / NASA GT-1, Transam etc, or a Radical sports racer.

The above would likely force the sale of my C6 which I'm pretty sure I don't want rid of at this time.

So, if you had $12-15K to spend, what further mods would you do to the C6 (currently - LG cam, heads, headers, exhaust and ZO6 bars, Bilsteins, SS brake lines, brake cooling ducts, PS2s, and etc). At the top of my list is a better seat, harness, more cooling and a nice trailer (already have the tow truck).

I need to narrow my focus and stop looking at FFR Cobras, "real" racecars I can't afford and those darned Radicals that would make superb TD cars (but you can't take one out for a Sunday back road blast).

I need some direction and advice - THANKS !!!

E

Wicked Weasel

Well safety would be the number 1 concern. If you do not have a HANS I would invest in that when you buy your seat, harness bar and harnesses.

I would talk to Gary at Hardbar. He will give you good advice on seat, seat rails, hardbar, etc. I am installing Kirkey seats in my car this winter.

I would lose the Z06 sway bars and replace them with something better. Depending on what you want from your car pfadt adjustable sway bar would be good for road and street while the T1 would be more aggressive. If you are doing that then maybe pfadt coilovers would be a good choice too.

Then there are brakes. Wilwood 6 piston fronts with 4 piston rears would be a good improvement over stock. If not for just the stopping power of the Wilwoods then for the ease of changing pads and rotors.

As far as cooling the Dewitts radiator with oil cooler works great. My track temps dropped a ton with that enhancement.

For a trailer if you want an open then the easiest one to use is the Sloan Rollback. I bought one this year and it is great. I ended up adding a tirerack to it and now it is perfect. It is low enough to load the lowest of cars without scraping and if you break down you can easily push it on the trailer with the help of a few people (dont ask me how I know )

well there goes $10K

mwvettec5

Bob,

Thanks for the tips.

BTW - The '97 coupe I reffered to above is the car ECS built for Mike Sisler in '05 & '06.

Thanks again,

E

Cobra4B

Fark it.... do what I did and get a Panoz GTRA www.wirewheel.com has a few left and http://www.buypanozgtra.com may have a few.

Sure it only has 250 crank HP, but a 500+ 331 SBF is only $5000 away.

mwvettec5

I spent considerable time looking at those and talked to the guys in Florida - they are a pretty good choice but if I chose a "dedicated" track car I think I'd spend the $$$ on a tube framed ex-Transam Camaro, or the "Holy Grail" of TDs - a Radical SR3 !!!

$23K, plus 5K, plus a "little" more for spares, etc etc etc - this is why I would look at an ex TA car, or "stretch" the budget for a Radical.

THANKS, enjoy the Panoz, you'll have a blast !!!

Cobra4B

^ True... my biggest thing is the ongoing consumables costs. Good luck w/ your choice.

AU N EGL

That would be my option

a old TransAm or GT1 race car will cost a LARGE fortune when you take it to the track

Independent1

^^If you are willing to spend $12-15K for mods for the vette, for a little more money if you are patient you can by an older radical prosport or similar DSR. In the long run you will save a ton of money, the race car will far outperform your modified vette, and will be easier to work on.

That's what I would do. Actually that is what I am going to do.

Here are a few links for ya.

http://www.racingjunk.com/category/89/Sports_Racer.html

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/dsr.htm

http://p081.ezboard.com/For-Sale-Car...rumcarsforsale

http://www.jakelatham.com/radical/

http://p070.ezboard.com/Radical-Race...um/bsocalpeeps


Hope this helps.

95jersey

It's a tough choice and I am at this juncture myself. Do you spend another $15k on a nice car so it's value drops another $15k when your done? What about resale and safety? Is is really smart to be doing 150mph without a cage? It all comes down to how much $$$$ you have, or are willing to part with for your hobby to go fast. In my dream world, I would have one of those Callaway Z06R's, in the next step down I would have a World Challenge Car, then T1 car with a 427, then a C5street car modded for the track. But we are really only doing HPDE, so what do I get by being the fastest car on the track, except an emtpy wallet?

My recent choice was to buy a brand new Z06 and it certainely does the job, but has no cage, race seats, or serious safety devices and doing so, will destroy a beautiful car and cost a fortune. This solution can't last forever (I wish it would!).

For this reason, for the first time in years, I am thinking of a non-Corvette solution to bring the costs down and become more realistic about what I am trying to achieve in this hobbie (to either do 150mph down every strait, or actually go faster around the corners). Do I want to focus on improving my driving skills or do I still need to have 500rwhp for HPDE? The REAL answer is...I WANT BOTH, but after dumping money into this hobbie for 7 strait years running fast Corvette's, I don't want to realistically continue at this level, nor feel the need to anymore. But, I am still up in the air, and not sure myself. I would like to get one more season out of my Z before making the jump to something more affordable.

Cobra4B

We think alike... this is the conclusion I have finally come to. I spent so much money trying to make my Z06 faster and faster, but then realized going faster costs so much more money. Why do I need to run slicks that wear out in 2 or 3 weekends? Am I really having more fun going 2 seconds faster? Wait... I'm not timing my laps and I'm not racing... there is no winner here. Do I need to go 160 each straight to have fun?

The answer for me is no. I'd rather have a car that is always ready to go, cheaper to operate, and cheap to maintain.

mwvettec5

AMEN !!!

I agree 100%, that's why I investigated a Radical - it is a superb, no compromise, track day car. It would be much easier to drive a LOT faster than a Vet, and would be easier to maintain.

The only problem I have with that choice is giving up my C6 which I do enjoy taking for Sunday morning "blasts" in the country.

Unfortunately can't afford to own both, side by side, unless I found a 25K Radical and there aren't many (any) of those around.

THANKS

Independent1

^^There are $25K radicals around but not the SR3s and SR4s. You need to look at the older Prosports will are single-seaters. The SR3 and SR4s seat 2 people, and as a result, sell for a premuim.

One of the links I sent you was included a very nice Toyota DSR (same race class as a radical) for $22,500 or so.

If I can find the discussion on radicals that I read I will post it up to this thread. It was very eye opening.

Stay tuned....

mwvettec5

I agree and would ad that I'd rather be on track with a "simple" car.

Modern Corvettes MANY electronics, comfort and safety sytems can be a pain to maintain, costly to repair and difficult to work around.

I've even considered a FFR Cobra kit car - not as "modern" as a C5 or C6 but MUCH simpler to work on, and a LOT less parts to fail or wear.

The "old" Cobras may not be as sleek, but they do have tubular A-arms, coil overs, light weight, "cheap" horsepower etc etc etc, AND, I can do most work here in my home garage with tools I already own.

Just not sure if I should spend more $$$ on the C6, or go in another direction ???

THANKS for everyone's input

mwvettec5

95jersey

Our Corvettes are great, but there are cheaper cars that corner just as fast or faster, but don't have the straitline speed. So is it more exciting to buy a car that picks up another 5-10mph in the corners, but loses 20mph on the back strait? Over the course of a lap (course depending)your not that far off from eachother, but the guy doing another 20mph down the back strait is paying 3 times the cost to do so, and you mature to realize picking up 5-10mph in a corner is HUGE fun.

I call it the Pyramid effect. EVERYONE starts out as a novice with your favorite street stock car (cheap or expensive). Then you get promoted to intermediate status after a couple years and there is all kinds of highly modified cars, and you push your wallet and your ability to keep up the pace. Then you FINALLY make the advanced run group and your mods begin to almost equal the money the car costs. Then you see the instructors or the guys who have been doing it for a LONG time. They are almost back to street type cars or full race cars with nothing more than full safety equipment, tires and brakes and are FAST regardless of how much power they have.

I think a nice package is something that weighs around 2000lbs with about 250-300hp. Your cornering SUPER fast and not doing so bad down the back strait, but keeping the cost relatively low.

mwvettec5

The above is what interests me in a FFR Cobra ......................

Independent1

^^I found it!!!!!!!!Here is the thread

You should find it very helpful.

http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3161

Good luck with your search. Should not have to give up the vette.

95jersey

From running with those guys, I never found them to be that fast in the corners or the straits. Cobra's seem more like a passion car, like a vette and not that cheap either.

I keep bringing this up in other posts, but after spending LOTS of time researching all kinds of options (full race, open wheel, used T1's, leasing stock street cars) and factoring in price, speed, part availability, aftermarket support, warranty, AND (for me) HAS to also be able to be driven on the street with a valid VIN so I can put traditional insurance on it. I am not willing to go down to a $5000 used miata (just yet), but also not willing to buy a $25k race only car, I will not accept that loss on a race track and/or pay $500 a day race insurance. So the only option is a street based car with a VIN, that I can insure, that is already built and engineered to go fast, relatively new and cheap and FAST in the corners.

After going to all kinds of forums listening to what people are using and how well it works compared to our forum, I have found I am becoming fond of the Lotus Elise option. Those guys have their sh%t together as far as track days, the cars are relatively cheap/fast, and have a good aftermarket support. The hot choice for track cars over there is to buy a nice used 2005 Elise (which goes for $25-30k), then put on the factory Exige supercharger with custom tunning. This can be all done for about $35k with purchase of car. Add $2000k for Ohlins coil-overs and sways for an already amazing handling car. The car is already gutted and has factory roll hoop but has VIN BUT is an actual street car. The custom Exige Supercharged kits put out around 270hp in a car that weight 1950lbs. To give you an idea of performance, the stock 220hp Exige at 2088lbs is faster than a Z51C6 around a road course. I am sure a 270hp Elise is not a C6Z06, but it's definately faster than a new Z51 at 1/2 the price.

mwvettec5

Where do you look for an Elise (besides Ebay) ???

Are the prices above in the US, or in Great Britain ???

THANKS

wtknght1

You can pick up a used 24-28' enclosed trailer for $5K.

Spend the rest of your money on seat, belts, HANS, driver cooling system (Cool Shirt), transmission cooler, T1 sway bars and spend the rest on wheels, tires, and brake pads...whatever you can afford.

If you're more safety conscience than speed, stick a good cage in there instead of the wheels and tires.

Leave the brakes alone, but upgrade to Carbotech pads. The stock brakes are good enough for track days stuff and easy to replace.