First McLaren, now Renult the drama continues in the off season
11-08-2007, 12:00 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
First McLaren, now Renult the drama continues in the off season
Renault has been summoned to appear before the World Motor Sport Council to answer charges of spying on McLaren. The team has been asked to send representatives to the WMSC meeting in Monaco on Dec. 6.
The story came to light months ago following McLaren’s exhaustive checking of its IT systems in the light of the original spy scandal. As revealed by www.speedtv.com on Sept. 14, during that search it was discovered that an engineer – named later as Phil Mackereth – had downloaded a significant amount of data onto CD-ROMs before leaving for a new job at Renault.
At Spa, McLaren sources said Renault’s Flavio Briatore had been made aware that something was up, and the Renault team boss had ordered his own internal search. He subsequently approached McLaren principal Ron Dennis with a certain amount of the known missing information – along with some that McLaren did not know had been taken. Told that there must be more, Briatore again came back with data that McLaren was not aware was missing.
At the time, FIA president Max Mosley played down any possible action against Renault. Speaking to the BBC, he said, “We haven’t had the complaint or the detail we have been promised from McLaren about that, but when we get it, we will investigate. We've had a dossier from Renault which doesn't look particularly damning, but then again, you wouldn't expect it to. It's allegedly an employee who took some floppy disks with him, but we must wait and see what comes out from McLaren.
“I told Ron Dennis, ‘When you have got your dossier together, let’s have it.’ He, with Renault’s agreement, sent experts into Renault to look at their computer system recently. So obviously when he has got that report, if there's something significant in it, I have no doubt he will let us have it.”
McLaren subsequently maintained silence on the matter. Almost two months down the line, it now seems that the evidence was too compelling to ignore.
The FIA statement was very specific as to the content of the stolen data, and read as follows:
“Representatives of the Renault F1 Team have been requested to appear before a hearing of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Monaco on Thursday, December 6, 2007. The team representatives have been called to answer a charge that between September 2006 and October 2007, in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, the Renault F1 Team had unauthorized possession of documents and confidential information belonging to Vodafone McLaren Mercedes, including, but not limited to the layout and critical dimensions of the McLaren F1 car, together with details of the McLaren fueling system, gear assembly, oil cooling system, hydraulic control system and a novel suspension component used by the 2006 and 2007 McLaren F1 cars.”
The statement in effect dates the departure of the McLaren engineer to September 2006, some six months before the Nigel Stepney saga began. At that time Renault would be full steam ahead with the design of its 2007 car, which means that the data would potentially of far more use than the Stepney information was to McLaren, since that arrived after the car was actually racing.
In the original case McLaren was kicked out of the constructors’ championship and fined $100m, and that penalty has to be considered a precedent.
Interestingly the WMSC meeting takes place the day before the FIA Awards presentation, at which point Ferrari will collect its constructors’ prize and the 2007 classification would normally be considered as final. If Renault loses its third place, then Williams will move up.
-- MyRACER staff
The story came to light months ago following McLaren’s exhaustive checking of its IT systems in the light of the original spy scandal. As revealed by www.speedtv.com on Sept. 14, during that search it was discovered that an engineer – named later as Phil Mackereth – had downloaded a significant amount of data onto CD-ROMs before leaving for a new job at Renault.
At Spa, McLaren sources said Renault’s Flavio Briatore had been made aware that something was up, and the Renault team boss had ordered his own internal search. He subsequently approached McLaren principal Ron Dennis with a certain amount of the known missing information – along with some that McLaren did not know had been taken. Told that there must be more, Briatore again came back with data that McLaren was not aware was missing.
At the time, FIA president Max Mosley played down any possible action against Renault. Speaking to the BBC, he said, “We haven’t had the complaint or the detail we have been promised from McLaren about that, but when we get it, we will investigate. We've had a dossier from Renault which doesn't look particularly damning, but then again, you wouldn't expect it to. It's allegedly an employee who took some floppy disks with him, but we must wait and see what comes out from McLaren.
“I told Ron Dennis, ‘When you have got your dossier together, let’s have it.’ He, with Renault’s agreement, sent experts into Renault to look at their computer system recently. So obviously when he has got that report, if there's something significant in it, I have no doubt he will let us have it.”
McLaren subsequently maintained silence on the matter. Almost two months down the line, it now seems that the evidence was too compelling to ignore.
The FIA statement was very specific as to the content of the stolen data, and read as follows:
“Representatives of the Renault F1 Team have been requested to appear before a hearing of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Monaco on Thursday, December 6, 2007. The team representatives have been called to answer a charge that between September 2006 and October 2007, in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, the Renault F1 Team had unauthorized possession of documents and confidential information belonging to Vodafone McLaren Mercedes, including, but not limited to the layout and critical dimensions of the McLaren F1 car, together with details of the McLaren fueling system, gear assembly, oil cooling system, hydraulic control system and a novel suspension component used by the 2006 and 2007 McLaren F1 cars.”
The statement in effect dates the departure of the McLaren engineer to September 2006, some six months before the Nigel Stepney saga began. At that time Renault would be full steam ahead with the design of its 2007 car, which means that the data would potentially of far more use than the Stepney information was to McLaren, since that arrived after the car was actually racing.
In the original case McLaren was kicked out of the constructors’ championship and fined $100m, and that penalty has to be considered a precedent.
Interestingly the WMSC meeting takes place the day before the FIA Awards presentation, at which point Ferrari will collect its constructors’ prize and the 2007 classification would normally be considered as final. If Renault loses its third place, then Williams will move up.
-- MyRACER staff
This cheating is getting annoying.
11-08-2007, 12:57 PM
#3
It's just like Steve Matchett said. There has always been cheating in F1. This kind of thing has always happened and he couldn't figure out why the FIA is making such a big deal out of it. With the FIA playing favorites again with Ferrari and fining McLaren, they just opened up a huge floodgate IMO.
11-08-2007, 01:55 PM
#6
Safety Car
It's just like Steve Matchett said. There has always been cheating in F1. This kind of thing has always happened and he couldn't figure out why the FIA is making such a big deal out of it. With the FIA playing favorites again with Ferrari and fining McLaren, they just opened up a huge floodgate IMO.
Once the Manufacturers entered the owner arena the game changed. If the FIA doesn't maintain tighter control (of the manufactures'/owners' property rights) it will end up in the local courts - Manufacturer versus Manufacturer. That would get very ugly and circumvent the authority of the FIA..
11-08-2007, 02:52 PM
#7
The FIA has to maintain some semblance of control.
Once the Manufacturers entered the owner arena the game changed. If the FIA doesn't maintain tighter control (of the manufactures'/owners' property rights) it will end up in the local courts - Manufacturer versus Manufacturer. That would get very ugly and circumvent the authority of the FIA..
Once the Manufacturers entered the owner arena the game changed. If the FIA doesn't maintain tighter control (of the manufactures'/owners' property rights) it will end up in the local courts - Manufacturer versus Manufacturer. That would get very ugly and circumvent the authority of the FIA..
11-08-2007, 04:31 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
11-08-2007, 05:56 PM
#9
Cartoon Character
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: Can't be more than 114... Arizona
Posts: 1,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the IT world, an agreement is signed to prevent such trickery although I don't really recall fines in the gazillions like the FIA
11-08-2007, 06:13 PM
#10
Safety Car
Acknowledge the violations, massive fines and elimination from competition. They (the Teams) will self police.
11-08-2007, 07:17 PM
#11
Pro
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Spicewood, TX
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The FIA just needs to leave everything alone.
They are making a big deal out of spying now even though it has been going on basically since the sport began.......
We should just go back the last 30 years and DQ everyone with the pace the we are on now.
They are making a big deal out of spying now even though it has been going on basically since the sport began.......
We should just go back the last 30 years and DQ everyone with the pace the we are on now.
11-08-2007, 10:54 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
It's just like Steve Matchett said. There has always been cheating in F1. This kind of thing has always happened and he couldn't figure out why the FIA is making such a big deal out of it. With the FIA playing favorites again with Ferrari and fining McLaren, they just opened up a huge floodgate IMO.
11-08-2007, 10:58 PM
#15
I think that it's all ridiculous. When Nicolas Tombazis left McLaren to go to Ferrari, they developed a zero-keel suspension system just like the McLaren. Does this mean that Ferrari cheated?
11-08-2007, 11:14 PM
#16
Safety Car
Unless the goal is to build a carbon copy of a competitors car, isn't most of the information useless to another team? Couple that with individual driving styles and I can't see the benefit.
Oh, I guess this means Adrian Newey's career is finished. /:\
Oh, I guess this means Adrian Newey's career is finished. /:\
11-09-2007, 08:48 AM
#17
Pro
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Spicewood, TX
Posts: 531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It has happened and will continue to happen. They are going to ruin the sport if it continues on this type of path.
I think that it pushes the engineering envelope anyways. Cheating straight up, COPYING, should not be allowed obviously. Taking a good design and making it your own is not wrong, happens ALL the time and not just in motorsport.