MazdaSpeed and the SCCA
11-28-2007, 03:13 PM
#1
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MazdaSpeed and the SCCA
I got this email today.
They're accusing GM of stacking the deck with the Solstice option and not allowing Mazda to follow suit.
They're accusing GM of stacking the deck with the Solstice option and not allowing Mazda to follow suit.
From: Phil Kogan <koganp@charter.net>
To: 'Chris Franson' <cmfranson@gmail.com>; 'SCCA New England Region Solo' <solo@lists.ner.org>
Sent: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 3:44 pm
Subject: Re: [NER Solo] SCCA doesn't need Mazda
Hi Guys
This is an excerpt from the SpecMiata Forum site stated by Tim Buck. Our main contact to Mazda Speed.
http://www.specmiata.com topic Mazdaspeed survey.
I have no problem with GM (Well...). We WANT to race against them. As fairly as possible. It's great for the brand. Similar cars battling it out on the track? Great! It generates public interest in both cars. Win-win, right?Problem is, GM stacked the deck early on with their Z0K and CF top. Actually, the base model cars would have been perfect against each other (and it would have been cheaper for the racers!). But I guess they wanted more than to just "compete". So in order to run with them we had to answer with a suspension package that would let the Miata run with the Solstice. So we did. We jumped though all of the hoops that Jeremy Thoennes asked of us, and the CRB gave us the ok, adding the MS-R option to the spec line. All legal, above board, and done according to the GCR. MS-R option was allowed in the April Fastrack.
Someone must have protested the option, because it went to court and was disallowed. Then the CoA heard it and upheld the protest. THEN they let us know that they had disallowed the MS-R. We had no idea up until that point that there was a problem. Talk about lack of due process!
Our final option was to take it to the BoD to try to get it reversed. Which we did. I (we) did an exhaustive amount research (trying to play catch-up), found out that we were RIGHT according to the GCR and that because it was an OPTION, it could be added to the spec line by the CRB (even without being available to the public!). We prepared an extensive, well laid out appeal to the BoD outlining why. per the GCR the MS-R option is legal and requesting that it not be taken away.
I was told that the BoD chose not to hear our appeal. NOT TO HEAR IT!
And this is just one of the issues we have had with the club. I'm not going to detail each one. Suffice it to say that Mazda feels that its substantial investment in SCCA is both taken for granted and unappreciated. We don't ever want special treatment. Just parity. Just a transparent way to classify cars, allow options, add restrictions, and administer/apply their own ruleset.
_______________
I have not filled my survey out as yet as I wanted to understand things
before hand.
Phil Kogan
-----Original Message-----
From: solo-bounces@lists.ner.org [mailto:solo-bounces@lists.ner.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Franson
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:36 PM
To: SCCA New England Region Solo
Subject: Re: [NER Solo] SCCA doesn't need Mazda
On Nov 26, 2007, at 10:25 AM, Keith Scala wrote:
> Has anyone in NER SCCA read the following statement from Mazdaspeed
> that was
> delivered in the form of a survey last week?...
> Does anyone have any more information of what is happening inside
> SCCA with
> Mazdaspeed?
>
Keith,
I too received the survey. I completed it, and also emailed Bob
Introne, though I have not received a response from him. I would
recommend emailing the SCCA Board of Directors using the address
bod@scca.org
. Only they would know anything.
-Chris
To: 'Chris Franson' <cmfranson@gmail.com>; 'SCCA New England Region Solo' <solo@lists.ner.org>
Sent: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 3:44 pm
Subject: Re: [NER Solo] SCCA doesn't need Mazda
Hi Guys
This is an excerpt from the SpecMiata Forum site stated by Tim Buck. Our main contact to Mazda Speed.
http://www.specmiata.com topic Mazdaspeed survey.
I have no problem with GM (Well...). We WANT to race against them. As fairly as possible. It's great for the brand. Similar cars battling it out on the track? Great! It generates public interest in both cars. Win-win, right?Problem is, GM stacked the deck early on with their Z0K and CF top. Actually, the base model cars would have been perfect against each other (and it would have been cheaper for the racers!). But I guess they wanted more than to just "compete". So in order to run with them we had to answer with a suspension package that would let the Miata run with the Solstice. So we did. We jumped though all of the hoops that Jeremy Thoennes asked of us, and the CRB gave us the ok, adding the MS-R option to the spec line. All legal, above board, and done according to the GCR. MS-R option was allowed in the April Fastrack.
Someone must have protested the option, because it went to court and was disallowed. Then the CoA heard it and upheld the protest. THEN they let us know that they had disallowed the MS-R. We had no idea up until that point that there was a problem. Talk about lack of due process!
Our final option was to take it to the BoD to try to get it reversed. Which we did. I (we) did an exhaustive amount research (trying to play catch-up), found out that we were RIGHT according to the GCR and that because it was an OPTION, it could be added to the spec line by the CRB (even without being available to the public!). We prepared an extensive, well laid out appeal to the BoD outlining why. per the GCR the MS-R option is legal and requesting that it not be taken away.
I was told that the BoD chose not to hear our appeal. NOT TO HEAR IT!
And this is just one of the issues we have had with the club. I'm not going to detail each one. Suffice it to say that Mazda feels that its substantial investment in SCCA is both taken for granted and unappreciated. We don't ever want special treatment. Just parity. Just a transparent way to classify cars, allow options, add restrictions, and administer/apply their own ruleset.
_______________
I have not filled my survey out as yet as I wanted to understand things
before hand.
Phil Kogan
-----Original Message-----
From: solo-bounces@lists.ner.org [mailto:solo-bounces@lists.ner.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Franson
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:36 PM
To: SCCA New England Region Solo
Subject: Re: [NER Solo] SCCA doesn't need Mazda
On Nov 26, 2007, at 10:25 AM, Keith Scala wrote:
> Has anyone in NER SCCA read the following statement from Mazdaspeed
> that was
> delivered in the form of a survey last week?...
> Does anyone have any more information of what is happening inside
> SCCA with
> Mazdaspeed?
>
Keith,
I too received the survey. I completed it, and also emailed Bob
Introne, though I have not received a response from him. I would
recommend emailing the SCCA Board of Directors using the address
bod@scca.org
. Only they would know anything.
-Chris
11-28-2007, 03:51 PM
#2
Drifting
Brian:
There have been threads on a couple of different forums about this. MazdaSpeed does have some valid concerns about the MS-R legality (and subsequent non-legality) and the process by which the decision is rendered. And MazdaSpeed is doing the right thing by asking their customer base their opinions about how MazdaSpeed supports the grassroots racer.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out and if MazdaSpeed takes their support to NASA.
There have been threads on a couple of different forums about this. MazdaSpeed does have some valid concerns about the MS-R legality (and subsequent non-legality) and the process by which the decision is rendered. And MazdaSpeed is doing the right thing by asking their customer base their opinions about how MazdaSpeed supports the grassroots racer.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out and if MazdaSpeed takes their support to NASA.
11-28-2007, 03:55 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
It would have been great to see parity in that series, would have promoted both brands, and made for a very competitive series.
I would think that the NASA would love to have MazdaSpeed support, and then all the scca Saturn/Pontiac folks could bring their spec racers and play in a parity field when not doing their events.
I would think that the NASA would love to have MazdaSpeed support, and then all the scca Saturn/Pontiac folks could bring their spec racers and play in a parity field when not doing their events.
11-28-2007, 04:17 PM
#4
Drifting
Mazda (Miata boys) has been subsidizing SCCA for years and it would be good if they did take their community over to NASA. The CGR is so screwed up they can't even read it anymore.
You can take that to the bank as a fact.
Suffice it to say that Mazda feels that its substantial investment in SCCA is both taken for granted and unappreciated
11-28-2007, 04:37 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
How many classes does Mazda think the Miata has to be competitive in to be fair? The '99 Sport was the car to have in CS for something like 5-6 years! And down in ES, the Miata R's are still very competitive, not to mention CSP and STS2.
Also, what is the deal with the MS-R option and it being dealer installed. I know you could order one with that option, but even Mazda will tell you "hey, btw, it is cheaper to buy it yourself over here".
Also, what is the deal with the MS-R option and it being dealer installed. I know you could order one with that option, but even Mazda will tell you "hey, btw, it is cheaper to buy it yourself over here".
11-28-2007, 09:59 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
How many classes does Mazda think the Miata has to be competitive in to be fair? The '99 Sport was the car to have in CS for something like 5-6 years! And down in ES, the Miata R's are still very competitive, not to mention CSP and STS2.
Also, what is the deal with the MS-R option and it being dealer installed. I know you could order one with that option, but even Mazda will tell you "hey, btw, it is cheaper to buy it yourself over here".
Also, what is the deal with the MS-R option and it being dealer installed. I know you could order one with that option, but even Mazda will tell you "hey, btw, it is cheaper to buy it yourself over here".
I understand Mazda's sentiments, but also realize #1 I know very little about the situation, and #2 there are two sides to every story.
11-28-2007, 10:20 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
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The trouble is, I have always had zero respect for a slow car. Everything Mazda makes is slow, no matter how equally slow they are. Spec Miata is extremely competitive, but slow. When a luxury street car with NAV, A/C and 28MPG is quicker than the SCCA "National Champ", no matter how well it is driven, who cares?
11-30-2007, 03:11 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Gary, this is shortsighted.
Competition is competition. It's all motorsports racing, regardless. If you rent a specmiata and drive one, you'll find out how challenging those cars are, and why a search of youtube will find any number of clips with specmiatas lapping much higher HP cars in DE events... It's a capable car, and from what I've read, Mazda got nailed in the *** like a prison rape on this one.
Doesn't matter the brand, guys... We should ALL hope for equal and fair playing field within a given class. In grassroots motorsports, it should be about the driver, not the car.
Mike
Competition is competition. It's all motorsports racing, regardless. If you rent a specmiata and drive one, you'll find out how challenging those cars are, and why a search of youtube will find any number of clips with specmiatas lapping much higher HP cars in DE events... It's a capable car, and from what I've read, Mazda got nailed in the *** like a prison rape on this one.
Doesn't matter the brand, guys... We should ALL hope for equal and fair playing field within a given class. In grassroots motorsports, it should be about the driver, not the car.
Mike
11-30-2007, 04:14 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Gary, this is shortsighted.
Competition is competition. It's all motorsports racing, regardless. If you rent a specmiata and drive one, you'll find out how challenging those cars are, and why a search of youtube will find any number of clips with specmiatas lapping much higher HP cars in DE events... It's a capable car, and from what I've read, Mazda got nailed in the *** like a prison rape on this one.
Doesn't matter the brand, guys... We should ALL hope for equal and fair playing field within a given class. In grassroots motorsports, it should be about the driver, not the car.
Mike
Competition is competition. It's all motorsports racing, regardless. If you rent a specmiata and drive one, you'll find out how challenging those cars are, and why a search of youtube will find any number of clips with specmiatas lapping much higher HP cars in DE events... It's a capable car, and from what I've read, Mazda got nailed in the *** like a prison rape on this one.
Doesn't matter the brand, guys... We should ALL hope for equal and fair playing field within a given class. In grassroots motorsports, it should be about the driver, not the car.
Mike
Sorry Gary but I agree 100% with Mike. I track my C6Z06 and race a rented Spec Miata. There is nothing slow about the Miata when you are drifting around a corner while surrounded by 10 others.
The grandstands would have the largest crowds for the single class Miata races. IMHO large spec classes with close racing yields the most excitment for participants and spectators.Having said that I would love to race a C5Z06!
Dean
11-30-2007, 05:31 PM
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I do not know all of the details but there does seem to be a lot of racers unhappy w/SCCA & the Phoenix prepped GM cars right now, and from what I have heard I do not blame them. I do not expect turnout at their events to improve any next year.
Scott
BTW- IMHO the Miata is a great track car and a relatively affordable way to go racing plus you can run in some nice size fields which is very difficult to find for a Vette. Too bad it is not American!
Scott
BTW- IMHO the Miata is a great track car and a relatively affordable way to go racing plus you can run in some nice size fields which is very difficult to find for a Vette. Too bad it is not American!
12-07-2007, 10:02 AM
#11
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Suddenly I feel like attending an MX5 miata race.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071206/lath060.html?.v=101
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071206/lath060.html?.v=101
