jlibrizzi

Question for experienced Autocross racers.
I am thinking of buying a Corvette to do autocrossing. I was thinking either a C4 (95,96) or an early C5. Should I pay the extra money for the C5 platform or get a less expensive C4 and upgrade the suspension?
Secondly, should I consider an automatic or standard shift.
Thanks,
Joe jlibrizzi@cfl.rr.com

jaa1992

Autocross only? or the occasional track day?

Autocross only - courses are short (one minute or less usually), manual will be shifting, first, second, third(maybe). Auto would be OK, keep it in 2

Road course - hands down get a manual. I had an 88 auto and even after a 20 min session oil and trans temps were way to high.

As far as what to buy - get the newest car you can afford. Thats why I have a 92 6sp.

SteveC6R

I would go with the C5 and a standard for sure. It will be alot more competitive with the manual and more fun to drive. If your budget allows, go with a Z06 or if not, try to find a '99, '00 FRC.

Solofast

Joe,

Depends on what class you want to run in and what your expectations are. Are you out to do this have fun and learn, or do you want to be competitive on a national basis?

The C4's run in SCCA A/Stock and are pretty competitive there, but the S2000's and the turbo Solsti are probably faster. There have been numerous discussions on this board about which ones to buy, but the general consesus is that stick shift cars are the best, with the choice being between the 93-94 Z07 or an 89 Z51 being the car of choice there. The later 95-96 cars had softer suspension and skinny front wheels so they aren't considered as fast as the earlier cars. C4's are "camber challenged". That means that you can't get enough negative camber to make the car really work right in a stock class, so you tend to eat up more tires.

In Street Prepared the C4's are hopelessly outclassed by the Evo's. You would be wasting your time and money to run there.

C5's run in SCCA Super Stock (that pertains to all C5's, but only the Z06's are worth running, the FRC and regular couples aren't nearly as fast as a Z due to less power, softer suspension and skinny wheels), an early C5 would be hopelessly outclassed in SCCA Super Stock. The C5Z isn't classed well at all either, and are not really competive with the Loti and Porsche GT-3's in SS....

The best place to run a C5z is probably in A Street Prepared, but it is expensive to do and will make the car not useable on the street if you prepare it to the limits of the rules, and it will cost a bunch of money.

Sorry if this is painting a bleek picture, but in the SCCA there really isn't a place where you would want to run a Corvette in a stock class and expect it to be really competitive.

If you just want to have fun, get an early C5 FRC and put a set of shocks and sticky tires on it and run local events. It is more reliable and a better car than the C4 and you can enjoy it more for less upkeep. C4's are getting long in the tooth and you will have to spend a lot to keep the car up. C5's are faster and have better alignment allowances and end up being more fun for the dollar.

TedDBere

You were doing great up to that point.

The C5Z is one of the 3 cars to have in SS. The order of finish between the Elise, GT3 and C5Z at any given national event will come down to the set-up, the course, and the driver. Any one, on any given day, can win. IMHO.

Out of 69 entries at SCCA Solo Nationals last year the top three were GT3, Elise and C5Z in that order. The top 20 consisted of 9 C5Zs, 5 Elises, 3 GT3s, 1 C6Z, 1 Exige and 1 Viper.

I'd recommend getting a C5Z if you can swing it. FWIW

acrace

Actually, the Exige was a C5 Z06. The driver changed but this car change was not reflected in the official results. So make it 10 C5 Z06s in the top twenty.


Al Chan
2003 Z06

acrace

Back to the original question.

I would agree with Solofast in that you need to define your expectations, to what level you want to compete, and what else you're going to do with the car. Also, are you currently or have you previously run autocrosses? Are you the type that wants to do mods (thus going into a higher category)?

I would also agree that a C5 does have the advantage of being newer (depending on your budget, maybe you can find one still under warranty), more adjustability in the suspension, as well as a nicer daily driver/pleasure vehicle. I've autocrossed both a C4 and a C5. I've enjoyed both tremendously. If I could afford it, I've rather go with the C5. If I can stretch the budget, I would prefer a C5 Z06.


Al Chan
2003 Z06

BrianCunningham

Keep in mind too that the SCCA isn't the only autocross game in town, though most clubs run to SCCA rules NCCC does not.

Make sure to get a rule book if your thinking of modifying your car.

mikahb

Hi Joe.

I generally agree with the other posts here so far. Sounds to me like you have limited autocross experience (I'm guessing). I think the C5Z is still a valid weapon-choice if your goal is to be competitive in the SCCA at the National Level. But, if you're just getting started, I think you'd do fine with a C5 FRC - or even coupe. A Z is better for just autocross, but if you want to enjoy it as a driver also, I think a FRC or Coupe would be eaiser to live with.

If you get rolling with racing and in a few years are able to drive to the limits of what you get now, you can sell and upgrade!

I would stay away from an automatic, the communication between your right foot and your rear tires just gets so muddy. Also, I think the C5 is just a better car for many reasons that the C4.

My $0.02 - good luck!

jwt1603

I agree that there are options other than SCCA. SCCA around here (northeast FL) might as well be called Import Car Club of America. In NCCC you run against the same types of cars because they're all Vettes and you run the year and mods you want. Of course mods change your class but you are still running against someone with the same basic car as you. The SCCA courses around here kill Vettes. The cones are set up for Miatas. Vettes are physically too big (around here) to be anywhere near competitive.

NCCC makes it more dependent on the driver. One other advantage is that you can get tips from other Vette owners. I've gone to three SCCA events and never even saw another Vette. And the import crowd wouldn't give us the time of day.

All that being said, a LOT of NCCC people are strictly waxers. It depends on the region and club you are near as to how much racing they do. Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and the southeast are very active NCCC racing regions.

codename Bil Doe

That should be bolded. Rookie or not, you want to have as much fun as possible. It would really suck to make a mod that's meaningless but bumps you to a much higher class (like AM cuz you wanted a cool looking aftermarket hood).

Solofast

Sorry to disagree Ted, but look at the time DIFFERENCE between the first place GT3 and the first Vette.... It was almost a second and a half, and the first vette was 7 tenths behind the second place Elise..... That's basically in a different time zone. Tom Kotzian was way back in the pack and didn't trophy in 06. This year he showed up in a GT3 and did a bunch better. We can go out and have fun and enjoy our cars, but I sincerely doubt that you are going to see a C5Z beating the best Elises and GT3's at the Nationals for years to come.

TedDBere

You do realize that Tom Kotzian is a past SS national champion don't you? The GT3 didn't beat the Elise and the Z06, Ian Stewart did. And the second place Elise was driven by another past national champion Pat Salerno (co-owner of Evolution Driving School). But if you choose not to recommend a C5Z that's OK by me too, I just think their will be a lot of surprised people next year when the C5Z wins in Topeka (come on Al!!). And being the first year in SS for Kevin Dietz in the C5Z I'd say he did very well finishing 3rd.

Happy Holidays!

Solofast

DOH!!!! That is exactly why I picked him,

The first year he won was 1990, I finshed third or fourth that year, so yes I know very well......

BTW he has won SS three times... He saw the light and went to the Porsche this year. I doubt that you will see the hottest shoes in Corvettes from now on...

VetteDrmr

Couldn't agree more. Check with your local Porsche, BMW, S2000, Miata, etc. clubs also. You might or might not be running for trophys or points, but as I've told many folks, "We aren't in this for the money."

My favorite group here in the DFW area is the BMW club, followed by the PCA. We run at various facililties, and these groups like to run their courses with both technical and fast sections, regardless of the size of the venue. They also give the drivers the most runs possible, usually 8 runs per event.

Here's a vid from our big (huge) site. It's a really long course (over 1.5 miles, IIRC), but has its slow(er) and technical sections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE1HGUl6po4

Here's a vid from our smallest site. Note that even though it's much slower than the first, you still get up a good pace in the middle section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QowaUEaL_A

The point is, don't limit who you talk to or race with. I've found various levels of hospitality (the BMW group is the best), but all were pleasant to be with.

Have a good one,
Mike

TedDBere

Which is exactly why I believe they aren't winning now. Put Strelnicks or Braun back in one and I think the C5Z can win again. The top guys get bored and want to run the latest and greatest thing. Much of the fun for them is in developing the car and the C5Z has been developed so they aren't as exciting to campaign.

And Stewart has given up on autox and is off to RR. One less top dog in an SS GT3 next year.

SS is currently a three car field, with the Viper sneaking up with new tires available. The driver, like in many car events, continues to be the difference.

But getting back on thread...I'd still pick the C5 over the C4. I drove a C5 coupe in SS for three years while I learned how to drive. And at the end of the three year learning period you can then pick whatever car you want to be competitive. Because in three years the "car to have" will be different than it is today.

124Spider

Back to the OP's original question, the answer really, really depends on your goals.

First, if you've never autocrossed, you're some years away (and some serous bucks on shocks, tires and Evo School) from being nationally competitive. If ever. It would be far easier on your ego to go into it with the idea to have fun locally, learn car control, get to know the folks who do it, and gauge your performance against yourself, over time. Any competent sports car will provide you with some years of fun and learning at autocross.

If you intend to use the car as something of a daily driver, and also to autocross it, buy your car based on what you want to drive. All Corvettes, whether the C6, C5s of various flavors, or C4, are very capable autocross cars.

If you are buying it with the intent of being nationally competitive, a C5 Z06 or a C4 would both be competitive in their respective classes, with proper setup and the right driver behind the wheel. And the right course.

If you're not set on getting a Corvette, and autocross is your primary interest in a car, you might consider other cars. While Corvettes are excellent autocross cars, they are difficult to drive to their limits in such tight courses, and (if you're a beginner at this game) the learning curve can be frustrating.

Dave OH32

I'm going to have to side with Ted on this one... As an owner/driver of a C5Z SS car, I think SS is most definitely still a 3 car (we'll see what happens with the Viper... so maybe 4). The argument for the Elise being a better SS car than a C5Z is also pretty weak, with equal drivers most would argue its totally course dependent. Heavy transitions/momentum maintenance = Elise wins, Anything point/shoot or any substantial acceleration section = C5Z hands down. Perfect example - Check out the difference in who was faster on the East/West courses at Nationals this year... The east course was a transition heavy course and Salerno led going into Wednesday, where the West course was the complete opposite, very point/shoot and nobody was anywhere close to Ian and Dietz in the Gt3 and C5z.



But on topic, I jumped into the C5Z admittedly before I was ready and found the learning curve steep but manageable qne finally feel like I'm getting where I need to be. Like Ted said, a C5 FRC might be the best place to start.

talon95

That won't be true next year from what I've heard. Unless their plans change before spring, there are a couple more well known drivers jumping in with C5Z's.

Also, Dietz ran within .4sec of Stewart on the west course. I had scratch times that were .7 and .4 off east/west too. Just nicked a cone on both of those runs. Whether I could do it clean or not, it was definitely do-able to get close to the top with the Z.

Dave G.

Dave OH32

From what I hear there's also a very well known multi-time national champ jumping in a C6z....