Can an A6 be Competitive?
01-18-2008, 12:53 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
I'll link this thread to a buddy that is AutoXin' with his A6 car (he mostly looks at the Norcal section). I even AutoXed his car when my C5Z was down. He's gone from running it stock on street tires, to using C6Z shocks/sways on 710s, to now running Pfadt coil overs (still on 710s). He's been steadily catching up to myself and some other stick shift street driven 'vettes that run in the same series. Throttle lag and getting the trans to do exactly what he wants when he wants have been his big battles, but I think he's worked through 90% of that through tuning. Anyway, I'll let him speak for himself...
-TJ
-TJ
01-18-2008, 01:49 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
Here's a copy/paste of a post I made dated June 12th, 2006 after trying an C6 A6 car from another board:
-TJ
Originally Posted by old post
The ring/pinion in my Z06 are going out so I didn't want to chance racing it this weekend, yet I still wanted to run for points. Dan Bratten was nice enough to offer up a co-drive in his '06 C6 to me. I took him up on his offer, and suggested we use my race wheels/tires for the weekend.
The car:
It's a '06, base level with the ONLY options on the car being the Six Speed Automatic tranny and polished wheels. No Z51, no Nav, no blah blah. The car is black on black.
The only mods on the car are '06 Z06 shocks and sway bars.
First Impressions:
A lot of the talk when the C6 hit was about the much improved interior. I'll admit: the interior is nice. In fact, much nicer than my '02 Z06. I've seen the C6 interior in some of the other color offerings and it just didn't work for me. But the black (Ebony is the "official" name I believe) worked very well with the various bright-bits and styling elements Chevy put into the C6 interior. The seats are very comfortable, but still not supportive enough for aggressive driving. I’d say they’re slightly better than the seats in my Z06. As for the exterior Black really works on the C6 and even on the stock wheels it's a great looking car. I'm learning to love the C6 slowly.
The A6 w/ "paddle" shifting should really help sell the C6 to people looking for more of a comfy/fast/flashy cruiser than a *****-out race car. I can see the A6 helping to push the C6 into the BMW 6-Series and Mercedes coupe market a bit. However, when you really look at the ratios the performance advantage isn't what I hoped for over the A4. The A6 uses an insanely deep ~4:1 1st gear ratio but a very mild 2.56 rear-end. When you run all the #s the overall drive ratio in the first 3 gears of the A6 are actually deeper than those in the A4 w/ the 3.15s (optional perf. ratio) so it will be at least some benefit for the straight line junkies in the stock configuration. The insane-o 4:1 1st gear would make a great combo w/ some 3.42s or something in the back, a high-stall converter, and ETStreets for the 1/4 folks. I’m sure GM chose to go w/ such a huge spread on the A6 so they could combine slightly improved performance with better fuel mileage. I would have rather seen them go w/ a reasonable rear-end ratio like 3.15 or 3.42, a more standard 1st gear (high 2.xx low 3.xx to 1) and very tight gear spacing on the rest of the gears with 5th being a 1:1 and 6th being the only OD. But alas, that would have really only benefited in AutoX or Road racing. In most cases customers of the A6 probably aren't as concerned with those venues. By the same token I've always wished the M6 was a single OD w/ a 1:1 5th and tight gear spacing. Anyway, I digress...
Racing:
My 17x11 wheels (Grand Sport offset) with Kuhmo V710 (315/35-17 front and 335/35-17 rear) tires fit right on. As mentioned the car is a base model and has what appears to be the same braking system as a C5. The 17s had no issue clearing the brakes. And the big 335s actually clear better on this car than they do mine. We didn't need to run a spacer at all with this setup (for reference I use a thin spacer in back w/ the 335s). They did stick out around .5" just like they do on mine. The rims would contact the tie-rod end in the front at full-lock though. I get rub on my car at full lock also but as far as I can tell its tire to brake-duct rub not rim to tie-rod. Not a major problem, we just had to be mindful to not go full-lock (not an issue for racing, only in the "pits").
Saturday's course was a nice mix of tight, technical sections and faster sweeping turns. There were about 3 decreasing radius sweepers which are always fun.
The car got out of the hole pretty good. I could brake-torque it up as high as the converter would allow and it'd leave with no spin from the 335s. 1st gear acceleration was considerable. Through the first section of the course (what could be roughly described as a slalom) the car was composed and reacted well at turn-in but the quick transitions would unsettle the rear some. It was easy enough to catch it though, and the active rear-end could be used to work the car though the gates. Through the sweepers, particularly the decreasing radius ones, the rear-end wanted to lead the way. Lift-throttle over-steer was huge and could really sneak up on you. Getting into the power coming off the turns also threatened instant over-steer. Overall power was a good if bit underwhelming (remember, I'm spoiled w/ my car), especially when I'd be stuck bogged down a bit in 2nd. With more experience with the car I'd learn when I need to downshift to 1st heading into a turn to have the necessary power coming off the turn. More familiarization w/ the A6's ratios and shifting would really be necessary to extract the best times from the car.
Saturday night we decided to do something about the very loose condition we'd been fighting all day. As mentioned the car had been upgraded to C6 Z06 sway bars front and rear. The large back bar was surely one of the culprits. C5 AutoXers are known to like no rear bar at all. From my experience with this C6, it'd seem the same applies. However, with the stock base model springs and the miles of sticky tires body roll was already considerable and Dan really didn't want to induce more. So instead of removing the rear sway bar we turned to some rear Toe-In. We cranked in darn near ¼” of rear Toe-In which is very aggressive. But since we wouldn’t be reducing the rear sway bar (we didn’t want to make 2 changes at once) we decided to go on the aggressive side of things. We marked the toe-links and made sure to count “flats” as we made the adjustment so that our changes would easily be reversible.
Sunday after the car’s first lap we knew we had made a large improvement. Dan drove the first lap and I rode shotgun. I could tell he wasn’t fighting the tail of the car the whole way around like we were on Saturday. After the lap I asked him how the change felt and he said “I hadn’t even thought about it.” To me that was a good sign, there was no way we weren’t thinking about the tail of the car on Saturday. Hell it was just about all we could think about on Saturday. I took the next lap and the improvement was night and day. I could brake later and harder, executing my turn-in while still under braking. That would have brought the tail around on Sat. for sure. This really allowed me to drive the car harder since I could hold out WOT a bit longer, brake later, then turn in with front tires fully loaded under braking. I could also roll into the throttle through the turns and get WOT much sooner.
Overall for a close to stock car it was very capable. Once we got the rear Toe-In taken car of it was composed and predictable. The A6 worked pretty good, and as mentioned I could have used the paddle shifting to my advantage better with some more seat time. The handling was nearly on par with my Z06 despite the softer base model springs. The C6 is a nice evolution of the C5. Nothing is new or revolutionary (well accept maybe the A6 itself), but many refinements are present. Now if only somebody would pass me the fob to their C6 Z06.
The car:
It's a '06, base level with the ONLY options on the car being the Six Speed Automatic tranny and polished wheels. No Z51, no Nav, no blah blah. The car is black on black.
The only mods on the car are '06 Z06 shocks and sway bars.
First Impressions:
A lot of the talk when the C6 hit was about the much improved interior. I'll admit: the interior is nice. In fact, much nicer than my '02 Z06. I've seen the C6 interior in some of the other color offerings and it just didn't work for me. But the black (Ebony is the "official" name I believe) worked very well with the various bright-bits and styling elements Chevy put into the C6 interior. The seats are very comfortable, but still not supportive enough for aggressive driving. I’d say they’re slightly better than the seats in my Z06. As for the exterior Black really works on the C6 and even on the stock wheels it's a great looking car. I'm learning to love the C6 slowly.
The A6 w/ "paddle" shifting should really help sell the C6 to people looking for more of a comfy/fast/flashy cruiser than a *****-out race car. I can see the A6 helping to push the C6 into the BMW 6-Series and Mercedes coupe market a bit. However, when you really look at the ratios the performance advantage isn't what I hoped for over the A4. The A6 uses an insanely deep ~4:1 1st gear ratio but a very mild 2.56 rear-end. When you run all the #s the overall drive ratio in the first 3 gears of the A6 are actually deeper than those in the A4 w/ the 3.15s (optional perf. ratio) so it will be at least some benefit for the straight line junkies in the stock configuration. The insane-o 4:1 1st gear would make a great combo w/ some 3.42s or something in the back, a high-stall converter, and ETStreets for the 1/4 folks. I’m sure GM chose to go w/ such a huge spread on the A6 so they could combine slightly improved performance with better fuel mileage. I would have rather seen them go w/ a reasonable rear-end ratio like 3.15 or 3.42, a more standard 1st gear (high 2.xx low 3.xx to 1) and very tight gear spacing on the rest of the gears with 5th being a 1:1 and 6th being the only OD. But alas, that would have really only benefited in AutoX or Road racing. In most cases customers of the A6 probably aren't as concerned with those venues. By the same token I've always wished the M6 was a single OD w/ a 1:1 5th and tight gear spacing. Anyway, I digress...
Racing:
My 17x11 wheels (Grand Sport offset) with Kuhmo V710 (315/35-17 front and 335/35-17 rear) tires fit right on. As mentioned the car is a base model and has what appears to be the same braking system as a C5. The 17s had no issue clearing the brakes. And the big 335s actually clear better on this car than they do mine. We didn't need to run a spacer at all with this setup (for reference I use a thin spacer in back w/ the 335s). They did stick out around .5" just like they do on mine. The rims would contact the tie-rod end in the front at full-lock though. I get rub on my car at full lock also but as far as I can tell its tire to brake-duct rub not rim to tie-rod. Not a major problem, we just had to be mindful to not go full-lock (not an issue for racing, only in the "pits").
Saturday's course was a nice mix of tight, technical sections and faster sweeping turns. There were about 3 decreasing radius sweepers which are always fun.
The car got out of the hole pretty good. I could brake-torque it up as high as the converter would allow and it'd leave with no spin from the 335s. 1st gear acceleration was considerable. Through the first section of the course (what could be roughly described as a slalom) the car was composed and reacted well at turn-in but the quick transitions would unsettle the rear some. It was easy enough to catch it though, and the active rear-end could be used to work the car though the gates. Through the sweepers, particularly the decreasing radius ones, the rear-end wanted to lead the way. Lift-throttle over-steer was huge and could really sneak up on you. Getting into the power coming off the turns also threatened instant over-steer. Overall power was a good if bit underwhelming (remember, I'm spoiled w/ my car), especially when I'd be stuck bogged down a bit in 2nd. With more experience with the car I'd learn when I need to downshift to 1st heading into a turn to have the necessary power coming off the turn. More familiarization w/ the A6's ratios and shifting would really be necessary to extract the best times from the car.
Saturday night we decided to do something about the very loose condition we'd been fighting all day. As mentioned the car had been upgraded to C6 Z06 sway bars front and rear. The large back bar was surely one of the culprits. C5 AutoXers are known to like no rear bar at all. From my experience with this C6, it'd seem the same applies. However, with the stock base model springs and the miles of sticky tires body roll was already considerable and Dan really didn't want to induce more. So instead of removing the rear sway bar we turned to some rear Toe-In. We cranked in darn near ¼” of rear Toe-In which is very aggressive. But since we wouldn’t be reducing the rear sway bar (we didn’t want to make 2 changes at once) we decided to go on the aggressive side of things. We marked the toe-links and made sure to count “flats” as we made the adjustment so that our changes would easily be reversible.
Sunday after the car’s first lap we knew we had made a large improvement. Dan drove the first lap and I rode shotgun. I could tell he wasn’t fighting the tail of the car the whole way around like we were on Saturday. After the lap I asked him how the change felt and he said “I hadn’t even thought about it.” To me that was a good sign, there was no way we weren’t thinking about the tail of the car on Saturday. Hell it was just about all we could think about on Saturday. I took the next lap and the improvement was night and day. I could brake later and harder, executing my turn-in while still under braking. That would have brought the tail around on Sat. for sure. This really allowed me to drive the car harder since I could hold out WOT a bit longer, brake later, then turn in with front tires fully loaded under braking. I could also roll into the throttle through the turns and get WOT much sooner.
Overall for a close to stock car it was very capable. Once we got the rear Toe-In taken car of it was composed and predictable. The A6 worked pretty good, and as mentioned I could have used the paddle shifting to my advantage better with some more seat time. The handling was nearly on par with my Z06 despite the softer base model springs. The C6 is a nice evolution of the C5. Nothing is new or revolutionary (well accept maybe the A6 itself), but many refinements are present. Now if only somebody would pass me the fob to their C6 Z06.
-TJ
01-18-2008, 01:55 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
The short answer is: yes.
01-18-2008, 04:28 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2004
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The Hoosier A6 is the fastest DOT tire available today. Period. Although it is designed specifically for AutoX use, most T-1 racers today use it for short (i.e.: 20 minutes or so) races.
I used to run Kumho 710s, but after a couple of runs on a friend's C5Z on A6s, I switched to A6s two years ago and never regretted it.
Side-by-side tests we have run indicate that the A6s are about 1/4 to 1/2 second faster than the Kumho 710s in a 60 second run.
I used to run Kumho 710s, but after a couple of runs on a friend's C5Z on A6s, I switched to A6s two years ago and never regretted it.
Side-by-side tests we have run indicate that the A6s are about 1/4 to 1/2 second faster than the Kumho 710s in a 60 second run.
01-18-2008, 04:48 PM
#7
I have been looking at the A6 option for roadracing too. It seems that the GM traction management on the A6 can be tuned out by a bunch of different guys. Soon hypertech will have a newbie handheld unit but for now only the tuner guys can do it. Search the Scan tune board and it is all over there. They claim to have near instant shifts in the 100-300ms range! The hot ticket would be a switchable tune for street and competiton. Someone should be making money on that. Anyway I have not driven a tuned A6 but would love to swap a drive in my C5Z for a test drive. The problem people who track A4 is the heat. So few track the A6 that I don't know if A6 guys are also having heat soak problems.
01-18-2008, 04:50 PM
#8
Oh BTW I'm a lfet foot brake right foot gas guy. I'm way faster when I do this but do not have the best coordination when a clutch is involved. I know I would be faster in an A6 just because of the ability to work both pedals at once evn if it shifts slower. What do you other left foot brakers think?
01-18-2008, 05:11 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
The C6 A6 has basically the same overall ratios as the C5Z. That is the speeds in each gear is very similar, even though the tranny ratios are different, when you couple in the rear end ratio it is very similar.
So at least you have a good set of ratios to work with and not the realllllllly looooooong second gear that is the A4, the only question that remains is will it do what you want it to when you want it to...
Larry drove an early example and (being a automatic tranny engineer) was not real impressed with the stock shift times. He said that the paddle shifter wasn't going to knock anybody's socks off with the shift times, and that the transmission took a long time to "think" about a downshift when you were going deep into a corner. That is, again, in stock form. He was of the opinion that you could do some improvement on the shift times, but that there were limits based on the valve body design and that he doubted it would ever be great... In a stock class he felt a stick would still be a better autocross weapon. He didn't think it would ever be as sharp as the BMW "automated manual" tranny.
I guess that if you "really gotta have an automatic", then the A6 is a whole world better than an A4, but it still isn't going to be as fast as a stick.... In a class where mods can be made it will be closer, but no cheroot...
So at least you have a good set of ratios to work with and not the realllllllly looooooong second gear that is the A4, the only question that remains is will it do what you want it to when you want it to...
Larry drove an early example and (being a automatic tranny engineer) was not real impressed with the stock shift times. He said that the paddle shifter wasn't going to knock anybody's socks off with the shift times, and that the transmission took a long time to "think" about a downshift when you were going deep into a corner. That is, again, in stock form. He was of the opinion that you could do some improvement on the shift times, but that there were limits based on the valve body design and that he doubted it would ever be great... In a stock class he felt a stick would still be a better autocross weapon. He didn't think it would ever be as sharp as the BMW "automated manual" tranny.
I guess that if you "really gotta have an automatic", then the A6 is a whole world better than an A4, but it still isn't going to be as fast as a stick.... In a class where mods can be made it will be closer, but no cheroot...
01-18-2008, 08:42 PM
#11
Stock A6 you are correct but see this link to the man who is the how A6 tuner. A6's shift hard and fast and stay in the gear you put it in by their reports but I still have not driven one.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1916718
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1916718
01-18-2008, 09:25 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
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The Hoosier A6 is the fastest DOT tire available today. Period. Although it is designed specifically for AutoX use, most T-1 racers today use it for short (i.e.: 20 minutes or so) races.
I used to run Kumho 710s, but after a couple of runs on a friend's C5Z on A6s, I switched to A6s two years ago and never regretted it.
Side-by-side tests we have run indicate that the A6s are about 1/4 to 1/2 second faster than the Kumho 710s in a 60 second run.
I used to run Kumho 710s, but after a couple of runs on a friend's C5Z on A6s, I switched to A6s two years ago and never regretted it.
Side-by-side tests we have run indicate that the A6s are about 1/4 to 1/2 second faster than the Kumho 710s in a 60 second run.
Wow!! Man, just learn to shift a stick. No offense intended, but you won't be able to find the right gear in the Auto between 1st and 2nd.
Just a personal opinion from dirving other people's cars and watching them battle the transmission.
Oh, and another thing: make sure your car is on Hoosiers.
Finally, if you modify the transmission shift points or anything else about it, be prepared to be kicked out of the Stock classes in SCCA.
Frank Gonzalez
01-19-2008, 03:59 AM
#14
Drifting
What??? You mean A6 as in auto transmission??
Wow!! Man, just learn to shift a stick. No offense intended, but you won't be able to find the right gear in the Auto between 1st and 2nd.
Just a personal opinion from dirving other people's cars and watching them battle the transmission.
Oh, and another thing: make sure your car is on Hoosiers.
Finally, if you modify the transmission shift points or anything else about it, be prepared to be kicked out of the Stock classes in SCCA.
Frank Gonzalez
Wow!! Man, just learn to shift a stick. No offense intended, but you won't be able to find the right gear in the Auto between 1st and 2nd.
Just a personal opinion from dirving other people's cars and watching them battle the transmission.
Oh, and another thing: make sure your car is on Hoosiers.
Finally, if you modify the transmission shift points or anything else about it, be prepared to be kicked out of the Stock classes in SCCA.
Frank Gonzalez
First Frank, I know how to drive a stick and will admit that I prefer a stick for autox but I do not want a stick on the street anymore. On the street I see no benefit to the manual trans and only detriment. On a few occasions I would prefer to have the ability to more precisely preform a shift on track to rotate the car or stab the clutch to break the car loose. But other than that I don't miss it. And, I love the paddles after changing them to shift down on the left and up on the right. Finally -- no offense taken.
The A6 gears are no better or worse than any transmission in that some combinations work on some tracks and others don't. I have a 1st gear speed of 50 mph on race tires and 2nd gear speed of 80. I would prefer to have the new 2.73 rear gear vs. the 2.56 I have now as that would allow a more usable range in 2nd on the slower courses. But the same can be said of the manual boxes. I give up a little when between 1st & 2nd but on the faster courses I don't need to shift into 3rd or 4th as the manual cars might. And, if needed, we had one local event where I went from 40 - 105 with only one shift. I'm sure you know this about transmissions from having an '02 and '06 Z06.
The A6 Hoosiers seem a bit faster but their life expectancy seems less -- which would follow. However, I am fortunate to have a good supply of low-use 710s available for $300-500 a set. The A6s would cost me retail. So ... the choice is easy.
I never run stock classes so tuning is not a concern -- but it is good that you note it as a possible issue for someone else. I have been tweaking the A6 since TJ drove it a year and a half ago. It shifts hard if I want it to, it stays in the gear I put it in and will bounce off the limiter if I chose to not shift. I have it where it is much more precise on the downshift and am now adjusting the firmness of the shift to my liking. Still this is the one place where the manual cannot be duplicated. With the clutch you can ease the release or pop it as needed to assist your change of direction.
A more interesting problem has been with tuning the throttle delay -- that is also present on the manual cars. At first I felt that it was some built-in "protection" that keeps you from getting on the gas hard when the car is already sliding sideways -- even with AH/TC fully off. But the more I drove it and read other's experiences I now think it is more to do with a sudden opening of the throttle after shutting it a moment before. I've adjusted my tune and it is working much better but is still not comparable to a wired throttle. I'll keep working on it once racing resumes next month. This coming year I will play with running a race tune for events and then going back to my street tune as it is an easy enough swap.
Bottomline is that with the A6 you can hold your own with manual trans cars. There are the hotshoes that hand me (and most everyone else) their lunch but I beat more than beat me. And I keep getting closer as I adjust to driving my first corvette and getting my modifications sorted. I lose most often to the fully sorted C5 Z06s. I can run close enough to top SS and ASP times and love to see how I do vs. the BP and BSPV cars. I run our local OSP class as the other option is SM2 which most know it a really tough class with guys like Any McKee local. I expect to be in the ballpark with other Corvettes but don't believe my street car can beat the purpose built cars. I don't think I've been beaten by a C6 Z06 yet as they are a handful even on Hoosiers. My car is able to run faster then I can consistently drive it as evidenced by letting some of those hotshoes drive it. The transmission is not keeping me from going faster. I keep working on driving better.
I bought the car as a daily driver that I could also autox. It handles traffic perfectly and has gone 20 hours non-stop cross country through rain and snow with ease and comfort. I don't think I've been beaten autocrossing by another car that can do the same. So ... I'm content with my compromise.
--Dan
01-19-2008, 11:42 AM
#15
I own the A6 TJ wrote about driving.
First Frank, I know how to drive a stick and will admit that I prefer a stick for autox but I do not want a stick on the street anymore. On the street I see no benefit to the manual trans and only detriment. On a few occasions I would prefer to have the ability to more precisely preform a shift on track to rotate the car or stab the clutch to break the car loose. But other than that I don't miss it. And, I love the paddles after changing them to shift down on the left and up on the right. Finally -- no offense taken.
The A6 gears are no better or worse than any transmission in that some combinations work on some tracks and others don't. I have a 1st gear speed of 50 mph on race tires and 2nd gear speed of 80. I would prefer to have the new 2.73 rear gear vs. the 2.56 I have now as that would allow a more usable range in 2nd on the slower courses. But the same can be said of the manual boxes. I give up a little when between 1st & 2nd but on the faster courses I don't need to shift into 3rd or 4th as the manual cars might. And, if needed, we had one local event where I went from 40 - 105 with only one shift. I'm sure you know this about transmissions from having an '02 and '06 Z06.
The A6 Hoosiers seem a bit faster but their life expectancy seems less -- which would follow. However, I am fortunate to have a good supply of low-use 710s available for $300-500 a set. The A6s would cost me retail. So ... the choice is easy.
I never run stock classes so tuning is not a concern -- but it is good that you note it as a possible issue for someone else. I have been tweaking the A6 since TJ drove it a year and a half ago. It shifts hard if I want it to, it stays in the gear I put it in and will bounce off the limiter if I chose to not shift. I have it where it is much more precise on the downshift and am now adjusting the firmness of the shift to my liking. Still this is the one place where the manual cannot be duplicated. With the clutch you can ease the release or pop it as needed to assist your change of direction.
A more interesting problem has been with tuning the throttle delay -- that is also present on the manual cars. At first I felt that it was some built-in "protection" that keeps you from getting on the gas hard when the car is already sliding sideways -- even with AH/TC fully off. But the more I drove it and read other's experiences I now think it is more to do with a sudden opening of the throttle after shutting it a moment before. I've adjusted my tune and it is working much better but is still not comparable to a wired throttle. I'll keep working on it once racing resumes next month. This coming year I will play with running a race tune for events and then going back to my street tune as it is an easy enough swap.
Bottomline is that with the A6 you can hold your own with manual trans cars. There are the hotshoes that hand me (and most everyone else) their lunch but I beat more than beat me. And I keep getting closer as I adjust to driving my first corvette and getting my modifications sorted. I lose most often to the fully sorted C5 Z06s. I can run close enough to top SS and ASP times and love to see how I do vs. the BP and BSPV cars. I run our local OSP class as the other option is SM2 which most know it a really tough class with guys like Any McKee local. I expect to be in the ballpark with other Corvettes but don't believe my street car can beat the purpose built cars. I don't think I've been beaten by a C6 Z06 yet as they are a handful even on Hoosiers. My car is able to run faster then I can consistently drive it as evidenced by letting some of those hotshoes drive it. The transmission is not keeping me from going faster. I keep working on driving better.
I bought the car as a daily driver that I could also autox. It handles traffic perfectly and has gone 20 hours non-stop cross country through rain and snow with ease and comfort. I don't think I've been beaten autocrossing by another car that can do the same. So ... I'm content with my compromise.
--Dan
First Frank, I know how to drive a stick and will admit that I prefer a stick for autox but I do not want a stick on the street anymore. On the street I see no benefit to the manual trans and only detriment. On a few occasions I would prefer to have the ability to more precisely preform a shift on track to rotate the car or stab the clutch to break the car loose. But other than that I don't miss it. And, I love the paddles after changing them to shift down on the left and up on the right. Finally -- no offense taken.
The A6 gears are no better or worse than any transmission in that some combinations work on some tracks and others don't. I have a 1st gear speed of 50 mph on race tires and 2nd gear speed of 80. I would prefer to have the new 2.73 rear gear vs. the 2.56 I have now as that would allow a more usable range in 2nd on the slower courses. But the same can be said of the manual boxes. I give up a little when between 1st & 2nd but on the faster courses I don't need to shift into 3rd or 4th as the manual cars might. And, if needed, we had one local event where I went from 40 - 105 with only one shift. I'm sure you know this about transmissions from having an '02 and '06 Z06.
The A6 Hoosiers seem a bit faster but their life expectancy seems less -- which would follow. However, I am fortunate to have a good supply of low-use 710s available for $300-500 a set. The A6s would cost me retail. So ... the choice is easy.
I never run stock classes so tuning is not a concern -- but it is good that you note it as a possible issue for someone else. I have been tweaking the A6 since TJ drove it a year and a half ago. It shifts hard if I want it to, it stays in the gear I put it in and will bounce off the limiter if I chose to not shift. I have it where it is much more precise on the downshift and am now adjusting the firmness of the shift to my liking. Still this is the one place where the manual cannot be duplicated. With the clutch you can ease the release or pop it as needed to assist your change of direction.
A more interesting problem has been with tuning the throttle delay -- that is also present on the manual cars. At first I felt that it was some built-in "protection" that keeps you from getting on the gas hard when the car is already sliding sideways -- even with AH/TC fully off. But the more I drove it and read other's experiences I now think it is more to do with a sudden opening of the throttle after shutting it a moment before. I've adjusted my tune and it is working much better but is still not comparable to a wired throttle. I'll keep working on it once racing resumes next month. This coming year I will play with running a race tune for events and then going back to my street tune as it is an easy enough swap.
Bottomline is that with the A6 you can hold your own with manual trans cars. There are the hotshoes that hand me (and most everyone else) their lunch but I beat more than beat me. And I keep getting closer as I adjust to driving my first corvette and getting my modifications sorted. I lose most often to the fully sorted C5 Z06s. I can run close enough to top SS and ASP times and love to see how I do vs. the BP and BSPV cars. I run our local OSP class as the other option is SM2 which most know it a really tough class with guys like Any McKee local. I expect to be in the ballpark with other Corvettes but don't believe my street car can beat the purpose built cars. I don't think I've been beaten by a C6 Z06 yet as they are a handful even on Hoosiers. My car is able to run faster then I can consistently drive it as evidenced by letting some of those hotshoes drive it. The transmission is not keeping me from going faster. I keep working on driving better.
I bought the car as a daily driver that I could also autox. It handles traffic perfectly and has gone 20 hours non-stop cross country through rain and snow with ease and comfort. I don't think I've been beaten autocrossing by another car that can do the same. So ... I'm content with my compromise.
--Dan
