0RAAMaudio

I am cutting out the cage in the T1 car I am converting to ST1 and want to build a much better cage.

I have all the materials and tools here to start the new cage but I do not have allot of time so need get going as soon as I can on the final design.

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I love the overall design of the DRM cage and want to build most of mine the same way.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1846404&page=2


But a few things are not the same as the NASA rules.

1) A pillar bar supposed to go to the floor, can I tie it to the top of the factory really big, really beefy, very well supported, door hinge mount area
like DRM did and also bring a second bar down to tie the NASCAR bars too?

By doing so I would have a much stronger design and not waste material and add weight when I have a stronger element built into the car to use.

2) The requirement to plate the bottom of the main hoops, etc, is that really needed when going straight to the frame(some are done that way, some are not, seems redundant to me to do so) Can I skip plating when going straight to the frame?

3) The diagonal bar on the main hoop on the DRM car only goes to the top of the harness bar as no place to run it lower due to the far reward position of the main hoop, which I want do as well. Can that be acceptable?

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I know I can use as many attachment points as I wish and I will do so, I just want to use the factory structural sections to a better advantage instead of working around them.

I want a very stiff cage that provides a very serious level of protection and plenty of head room in a car not known for that. I would not do everything DRM has done to meet some of my needs(it would weigh a bit less as well since running a stock body I do not want to heavy a chassis, mainly some is just to much work for me to take on.

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Help me out, help me get this car done and out having fun with my fellow racers here, please

Rick

wallyman424

Find out who your regions head tech inspector is and give him a call. He'll be able to answer the NASA specific questions you have.

and... good lord that looks like a lot of work.

davidfarmer

1. if you are talking about welding your cage to the hollow hinge mount area, I wouldn't advise it. It is a thin sleeve, and has a ton of holes in it for bolting the aluminum b-pillar to the frame. You really need to go down to the frame IMHO.

2.The frame is very strong, but the sheet metal is thin. You need plates on all mounting points so the tubing wont rip the frame apart in an impact. A frame is strong as long as it is intact (high moment of inertia), but when you load a single side of it, you can sheer it off pretty easily.

3. sounds like your main hoop goes all the way to the frame, but the diagonal stop as the bulkhead????? I've done it this way, but it isn't the best way. The rules state that the diagonal go from the top corner to the oposite corner, as close to the frame as possible. however, if the main hoop is going through the bulkhead, an inspector won't neccisarily realize that isn't the frame.

It is very hard to do the main hoop in a C5/C6 Vette. You either have to go down behind the rear seats, OR you have to cut through the bulkhead and tie in around the fuel tanks. First method takes away seat room, and the second method takes a lot of sheet metal and fuel plumbing work to get it clean and safe.


this is better in some ways, but the diagonal isn't technically correct


this way kills seat space, but gives you a full length diagonal

jasonberkeley

Who built the cage that is in your car now- is it a Phoenix cage?

If it is, I would suggest leaving it in there, as the cages that Phoenix builds were given some major design input from GM.

Additionally, some of the questions that you are asking, suggests that you are inexperienced building and designing cages. Even if you are an excellent welder, you should consult with someone who truly understands the design of racing roll cages.

The consequences of a mistake could be dire.

0RAAMaudio

Thanks guys, why I asked, great advice here

I am also waiting to hear back from the local tech and asked the head of NASA here as well as have talked to several that build cages, I helped build my last two.

I know how to read the rules and am going to do this right but the rules are just guidelines, I plan to do much better for my safety and to have a better car.

The cage I took out had the builders name all over it, was raced in SCCA allot and a few times in NASA. The rules were not really followed completely in the construction or inspection, I found some pretty serious issues with it. The parts you could see, beautifully done(though I am 5'8" and had the seat flat on the floor and still hit my head on the A pillar bar across the side window) Some of the parts you could not see, not so great to say the least, the main hoop was very poorly plated, I would not of wanted to depend on it to save my life. The other attachment points were not platted at all and the front leg of the A pillar bars showed signs of crimping the bends and a few welds were not all the way around the joints.

I am not naming names but the builder should be embarrassed especially for the reputation he has and grossly over priced job he did.

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That said, I have decided to follow some from the blue and some from the silver cage, keep within the rules and just make it the best I can. I am pulling the tanks today to see just how much fun it would be to drop the main hoop through the sheetmetal and go directly to(or possibly build a bracket, etc, to the frame rails.)

I am not afraid of the challenge, I have taken on many first time projects and done quite well, world class car audio(beat a world champ in my 5th competition), one off turbo systems, lightest full suspension mountain bike in the world, designed my own home and built it, started my own company and run it, etc. I have also been my own mechanic and modding my cars for 40 years now.

I am going to do the cage right, if not mentioned in the first post if my welding is not done exceptionally well(I will practice and cut open some joints) then I will tack it all and have a really great welder finish it up.

None of what I have said has anything to do with ego, bragging, etc, just saying that I believe in myself and know I can do most anything because I am willing to put in the effort and do it right. This is what I always try to help others do as well, they can do it, just have to make it happen

Rick

0RAAMaudio

I pulled the tanks, cut some sheet metal out of the way, took some measurements, decided to move the main hoop back like the DRM cage.

The top of the main hoop will be as high and wide as possible to get the bars over the windows up out of the way and I will trim the roof supports in that area to make as much room as possible(it is within the rules

The A pillar bars are going to be close to the factory door mount area and then tied to it as well as the top Nascar bar will tie directly from there to the front frame rails, the best I can make them fit.

I made the whole job allot easier by removing the roof, upper glass section of the trunk area, cutting off the factory "roll bar", etc, only a few welds will be hard to get to. I should be able to weld the main hoop and all but two connections to it then drop it into place if all goes well

This is really getting to be fun

Rick

wallyman424

shoot some pictures so we can see the damage!

sounds like you're in deep now!

0RAAMaudio

The car looks like it is about 75% parted out

I will take some pics tomorrow, I need a place to host them since my email files are so bloated, thousands of them but I must keep allot and do so on the server so I can check them where ever I go.

By now it would of been easier to start with a stock car or salvage title but I am still saving a great deal of money doing it this way.

The cage will be a mix of the DRM and the blue one with a few changes not on either one.

Rick