Rob Burgoon

Have any of you guys driven a SRF?

Any thoughts on the cars? Is the spec suspension any good? Are they well balanced, or set up for hopeless amounts of understeer?

Are they fun to drive?

s200

I can't give you a current assessment as I raced the car under the original Renault configuration. I sold the car once the eligibility for the Renault engines finally expired for SCCA events. That was a while ago.

What I can tell you is that I had a lot of fun with it. Provided very close racing with fields of up to 40 cars. The very low HP made it a game of conserving your momentum.

I actually thought the car had a good balance (but what do I know). They are tail heavy, but you do what you can within the rules to get as much weight forward as you can and it seemed to handle well enough with the HP that we had back then.

I’ve lost touch with the current Ford engined cars, but they must have made suspension upgrades because the cars were not designed for the additional HP they now have and the grip that comes with the tires they are using today.

Hopefully others can tell you more about the current configuration. It was a good concept that I thought worked well.

0Randy@DRM

I won a deal to spend 45 minutes in one. The weather took a huge turn for the worse, and will have to wait for spring.

Randy

Gatorac

I got my SCCA license in a SRF. Understeer is not how I would describe it at all. All the weight is at the back. Trail braking can easily lead to a spin. They react to the throttle like a front wheel drive car in that full throttle tends to pull you out of a spin. They are fun to drive but they are the most un-Corvette thing you could imagine. There is nothing like having your head out in the wind on the track.

If you want to race and want lots of competition, it's the perfect car. Sealed engines and a single parts supplier mean that the cars are all equal (unlike SM). A lot of the drivers in SRF have been driving them for many years and they are really good. The fields are usually large and there is always someone to race with, but don't expect to be at the front. The regional races here may have 1-3 T1 cars and 20-40 SRF's. They are not the greatest for OT or HPDE events. Everyone thinks your driving a Radical and can't figure out why you don't blow by them in the straight.

Parts are not as inexpensive as you think they should be. A single supplier (SCCA Enterprises) means the parts are marked up enough to support the series. They do hold their value well since there is a limited number of them.

There are several CSR's (customer service reps) that will be at any given race. If you break something or need help, they will be there with parts and assistance. I had a problem with the car in my first race and PM Racing fixed it for me.

I would suggest renting one and giving it a try. You can find a list of CSR's that will rent one here. http://www.scca-enterprises.com/customer_service.html More info on them can be found here. http://www.specracer.com/forums/default.asp

69427

Pretty much mirrors my (limited) experience in one of them.

rbl

I have driven mine for 3-4 years and stopped driving the Corvette totally. You actually have to drive the car and you don't have all that torque to make you look good. The car is purpose built and the suspension is pretty good, Pensik shocks, coil-overs, etc.

As Gatorac (who is being modest and PD-FAST too) said, SCCA controls the car and in my opinion they also gouge the hell out of the owners. So I have pulled all of the sealed stuff out, put it away, and put a junkyard engine and transmission in. The car is very inexpensive to run that way. I do ~ 14-18 events a year and get a full season out of a set of tires and a set of brake pads!

FYI: At VIR for example the SRF is running 2:15-2:18's. Most of the faster guys in the Corvettes are running 2:12 - 2:16. The very fast guys are running 2:08 - 2:11. The T-1 guys are running 2:06-08.

That tells you that the car is quick (unless I am driving . .lol). It is ~ 1700# and that works out to a 200 Hp Corvette. I don't think it would be much of a race if the Corvette was limited to the 200 Hp.

If you are not going to race you really need to pull the SCCA stuff and park it because the CSR's along with SCCA will eat you alive otherwise. When you go to sell the car you can put it back to spec.

If you want to race this is by far the best class SCCA has to offer and there is a level playing field because of the tight control of the car.

Here is some video:
VIR_Fun times

2006 Runoffs

Bill Hetzel

They're good cars but they have some limitations.
Do you want to race or do you want to just do track days?

If you want to just track the car, there's quite a bit of improvement that can be done.
In race trim, they slide around a good bit. A big portion of that is the spec tires and spec shocks. But everyones running the same equipment in a race.
The races do have big fields. There's usually a percentage of drivers in these fields that are renting them so there's more chance of wrecks (think spec Miata).
The horsepower to weight keeps the lap times down.

But all in all, yea, they're fun to drive.

Parts costs? They're reasonable. It's a big misconception that these cars are inexpensive just like the the guys in Spec Miata think they can run an inexpensive motor and run at the front of the field.
The parts cost what they do because this is a purpose built racecar that has a very low production volume. If you look at similar parts on other purpose built racecars, like a wishbone for a SFR vs a wishbone for a C Sports Racer, they are in line.

Like Gatorac said, rent one.

Rob Burgoon

This would be to race. I have a miata for track days and love it. What turned me on was the fact that the fields are in the same ballpark as spec miata but that its much more of a spec car.

OTOH, reading on their forums has me appreciating how mature and well engineered mass production cars are, even if they were engineered for the wrong task in life

Considering the price gouging, how would you compare the costs to operating and repairing a podium miata? (magic engine and drivetrain and all that)

This is good stuff, I appreciate it!

JimEli

I’ve been racing SCCA since 1995 and have run many classes. I’ve rented SRFs several times and enjoyed driving them. I currently have a Spec Miata. Here are my thoughts:

For the initial cost of a used SRF, you could get a front-pack SM. However, as an option, you could build your own SM spreading the costs over time. You can’t do that with an SRF. Some still drive their Spec Miatas to/from the track. Support equipment (trailer, tools, etc.) and typical maintenance will be roughly equal. Tire wear is about equal, however most front runners in both cars will use new rubber every race. Spec Miata parts will be cheaper (think junkyard for bodywork here). SM rentals are certainly cheaper, but both cars are equally supported by racing shops throughout the country. Both cars reward smoothness, however, as said above, the rear weight bias of the SRF requires some learning. Theoretically, SRF should have closer racing, as all cars are “exactly” the same. In SM, differences in model years and preparation levels makes for wider variation. If you like to modify and tinker, SM is probably the better class.

Come and join the fun. Good luck.

C66 Racing

I appreciate all the info to this thread. I too have seriously considered switching from T1 to SRF or SM, but the above quote, along with the curb appeal of the Vette has kept me in T1.

I think part of what has frustrated me with T1 (other than the small fields) is that I don't have the skill, tools/equipment, or space to really work on my own car. Not sure that I could on a SRF, but way back when I crewed on a FF team and the SRF doesn't look all that different. For example, changing out a tranny would intimidate me and I'd likely tow the car to someone like Phoenix Performance to do the work.

This may all change for me next summer when I change duty stations to DC. I'm looking to find a house with a big detached garage, put in a lift, etc all the stuff needed to teach myself how to tear apart and rebuild the Vette. Given the T1 field sizes in the NE, I may end up sticking with the class.

rbl

The SRF is simple as dirt! There is absolutely nothing you need to have done unless you are just lazy. Doing the alignment is a snap with a simple level, a couple of strings and an inexpensive camber tool. You can't get inside the engine or tranny -- just change them out when/if needed. There really isn't much to do and it does not have all the electronics like the factory cars.

The car was converted from the Renaults in 94 by Rousch and they did a decent job. The used a Mexican engine that wasn't available in the USA and that has become a problem because they are out of them and the heads are failing now.

If you like the rush of racing the SRF is the way to go. Average turnout is 20-30 cars and they generally have their own race. I'm sure you have seen this at the track. However, the fact that the car is controlled is what make it so competitive. The Miatas are not controlled and you can spend $20K instantly if you want to run up front.

FWIW no one has ever been hurt in one that I know of and I have seen it get T-boned at T-10 at VIR doing almost 95. Tough cars with a double cage and a lot of fun to drive (when it's warm outside!). I just ended up likeing the car because it is fun to drive and you really have to work at it to get any speed ... still working on that !!

There is a good discussion forum here and it is very active:
SpecRacerFord

JimEli

I believe your comments to be slightly misleading. By controlled, I take you are referring to sealed engines/transmissions, an option the SM crowd shuns due the resultant higher cost of sole-sourcing parts. Otherwise, SM is just as controlled, yet both classes suffer from devious, crafty, and sometimes unethical competitors.

Having competed in many different SCCA classes, I think it would be very difficult to find one more affordable than Spec Miata (considering ALL costs involved). Crate motors for SM are available direct from Mazda for $2100, while fully-prepped racing motors start at $4000 and top out at around $6500. I have no idea what a SRF motor cost, but as you said, they’re not manufactured by Ford anymore presenting a serious future issue for the class.

A realistic bare-bones entry cost (car only) for SM would be $8K and some have done it for less, however it wouldn’t be truly competitive at that price-point. Average cost for a front runner is $12-15K, and a top-5 Runoffs car was recently available at the asking price of $25K. A quick search of your supplied SRF website finds few SRFs offered below $19K.

Each class has unique and distinct advantages/disadvantages, and either car represents a great place to embark on the wheel-to-wheel racing experience.


As one who witnessed your unfortunate incident at Pacific, I'm glad to see you back on track. Will you be running the NW Nationals next year? Hope to see you then.

Bill Hetzel

Well, if you crewed on a FF, why not buy one? $10k will get you a front running Club Ford, something fast.

And just to **** everyone off here, SM's are boring. The last one I raced was in the 25 Hour. An hour and a half in the car had falling asleep on the straights and screaming at the car in the corners.

The SFR's makes the power to weight makes it pretty much the same on the straights and the spec tires screw up a car that could handle much better.

rbl

Bill if you had your choice of tire for the SRF and shock (without modifying the car) what would you go with? I have mine just for fun and would like a little more tire for sure.

I've had good luck with the original Toyo A048's but have not tried the new Goodyear's. I only have one more set of them too.


JimEli I have not seen a good SM for less than 25K. The compliance in that class is minimal to poor. Whereas in the SRF class it is very strict and that is why it is mostly driver ability. Top 10 cars are always impounded and inspected after a race.

The average price for a decent SRF is ~ $18K and you can run the car for 10 years and it will bring back the same price.

However, SCCA Enterprises controls the car/parts and they support the lifestyle of the operation through cost. They also control the engine and their QC is pretty sad. They have seen almost a 15-20% engine failure rate on fresh rebuilds and they are getting ~ $3K plus round trip shipping to Denver ...lol. You can buy good engines all day for $1500 but those 4 seals cost a fortune. You know the game I'm sure.

Any sole source vendor has a strangle hold and SCCA Enterprises take advantage of that.

Rob Burgoon

No, I can buy that, one of my issues with SM is that I will be going from my miata's wonderful coilovers to the bizzare spec miata spring and shock package.

How large are the SCCA club fords fields in your region? Since we are talking about purpose built racecars, I think we can have cheap formula cars are on the table too.

rbl, what is the SRF engine factory's policy on the engine failures? Will they stand behind it if a new one blows up?

rbl

From what I hear they sometimes will. However, this is at their discretion and it will take 2-5 months to get one if they will .. lol. Plus you will have to R&R the engine or pay to have it done. They have promised to fix the availability problem for years but never have.

The biggest issue is blow by and they will typically have a leak-down in the 10-12% after one race. They used to end gap the rings at 0.022" which is insane. Their engine program is a cash cow and you're stuck with that if you want to run in that class with SCCA.

C66 Racing

Thanks Jim. I'm going to try to run the NW Nationals next year and qualify for the Runoffs, but I'm not sure I'll be able to achieve either. I'll be unavailable from Jan-Mar due to my fifth deployment on this sea tour, but should be able to race enough from May - Jun to qualify for the Runoffs. But, in July I move to shore duty in DC and the expenses of moving into a new house in DC may make coming back to Road America for the Runoffs problematical. Plus, I have no idea what I'll be doing in DC so its hard to say that I can get the time off for the Runoffs.

Bill - I actually ran FF with Jim Russell way back in the early 80s but at this point in my life I think I prefer something with a body around me. If the FF fields were 20-30+ like they were back when I crewed, I might change my mind, but at most SCCA races I've been to, FF is all but dead so competitive fields aren't going to draw me out of T1.

I perceive that SRF and SM are cheaper to run than a front running T1 effort, but clearly that could be grass is greener... Combine that with my perception that SRF and SM would be easier to work on and both have competitive fields and hence my interest in those classes.

Bill Hetzel

Whew, that's a tough call because you're into expermintation. If you're running 13 inch wheels, I'd try something like the Club Formula Ford tires. I'd definately go with slicks, The CFF's run American Racer tires. They're a good bit harder than the Goodyear Formula Ford tires and less expensive. Being harder, they last much longer. They're narrow in the front and wide on the rear which would help the SFR oversteer.
Too bad you're not close, I had 50 used ones laying beside the house.
Your best bet is to try and find some take offs and run them on a test day.

The shocks boils down to how much money you want to spend. I run the steel bodied Koni's thet came on my Ford because stepping up to the double adjustable Penske's that the guys who are beating me are $3,800.
You really need double adjustables. I'd look for some used ones. I've seen rebuildable shocks used for 1/3rd the price on new. The Penske's are less expensive to rebuild than the Koni's.
I'd look for Penskes, Konis or Ohlins, definately not QA1's.
Nothin's cheap. Good Luck

Bill Hetzel

Too bad about the size of the fields. There's some damn fast Ford drivers up your way. Last time I was at Seattle, there was a bunch but that was probably 15 years ago.

Big fields, to me, only mean you're going to start lapping guys pretty quick.

I don't think the SM's are that easy to work on but the SFR's certainly are.

Bill Hetzel

I know all the groups are down. And I've taken a year and a half off to work on my house so I can sell it and build a raceshop.

The car counts in the San Francisco region were high enough to have our own run group, FF's and CF's. Usually 35 to 40 cars. That's dropped way off and we run with the Fv's now. But still looks like 11 or so CF's and 10 FF's.