fatbillybob

Hi Guys,

Please look at this spin at turn 3 at WSIR double click the top picture to view. I have this exact car a Z06 stock with t1 bars.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1568189610-post7.html

Note on T3 the back end breaks out. I also had this happen to me twice were my backend does the corvette hop but I catch it and loose time. In the silver Z "spin zone" and just left of "there" is a very small ripple in the track and mismatch in heights of the road as it cambers. So the road is not flat going up the hill and my Z does not like it. The back end come out either coasting up to it or feathering the gas on it trying to play with some weight transfer. In other cars I have raced there I don't loose grip there. Anyone know how to deal with the corvette hop right at this spot?? Use Coilovers to keep the wheels on the ground? Softening the rear to get more bite there? For me it seems that my Z likes the timetrial line at T3 only. Any help or suggestions?

Dirty Howie

Carl

I have never had a problem on this turn.

But here is another to view in your quest for an answer.

In both these cases it was with cold race compound tires.

And I (my video) thought the silver Z was going to T-bone me as he was heading back on track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slTNL...e=channel_page


DH

vetteguy2005

The first video looks to me like he early apexed the corner and probably power oversteered it into the gravel.

The second video he was more middle of the track and did not look like an early apex, may have just been cold tires and too much HP and Torque. The gas peddle is not a switch, it is a dial and a such should be dialed in slowly coming out of corners.

My .02 cents worth. Hope it helps.

Dirty Howie

I was on the track when both of these happened ....... your analysis is correct in my opinion

Neither driver has the experience or abilities of the OP (Carl)


DH

fatbillybob

[QUOTE=captain454;1568315319]I don't know why some people never have problems through turn 3 at WSIR, I know I frequently get a little oversteer coming out of 3. It's not such a big deal anymore, but the first time it happened I thought "this is it!".


Yes this is not a problem on the proper timetrial line. But this is a problem racing. Did you notice the time that your car was the worst was passing the slow white car? Now imagine the same senario with a faster white car and him right on your butt. In my past racecar it stuck in 3 perfectly on the inside pass line and I could power up the hill and not loose momentum. Your correction just like mine cause me to loose speed here as I correct and sometimes I even get repassed. It also makes me travel wide here during the correction not giving the driver taking the outside line "racing room" which I think is just good etiquette. I'd like to find a way to get my car to stick here or learn to drive that section of the track a better way if it is a driver problem.

MJM

looks like some combination of:

-too early
-too much
-too abrupt

on the throttle.

A little bit is ok, but once you're past 3-4 degrees of slip on the tires you are making less traction. I can hear / feel my rear end get a little loose through that section, but I try to keep in it check. Probably the only advantage to having the stock exhaust and mufflers!

Also, you might want to already have the car and steering wheel pointed at the next apex so you can lay down the power.

Matt

Bimota Guy

Cold tires were a big part of this. His initial turn in is way off line (by a car width!) The camera car is quite a bit to the right of him, but should be more. And the car is pointed in the wrong direction at the point on the track where he spins. It looks like he was still trying to go left when he should have already been pointing the car to the right side of the track, like the camera car driver did.

Bottom line...just about everything wrong.

fatbillybob

Steve,

That was not the point. I used it only to illustrate the conditions at that point on the track so others couls see what I was referrign to. Your sig has SCCA T1 so I guess you have a c5 and you race SCCA? If so do you ever pass cars left of the timetrial line on T3 as shown in the 2 videos? I have one race day on this car that point but lots of races at wsir in a different car. My '04 C5z (current racecar) is T1 legal but missing coolers, brake ducts, and all T1 suspension except the T1 bars and I was there on street tires stock wheels stock brake pads. I was lazy and drove to the track vs trailering. So what is a full T1 suspension like on that part of the track? Your A-arms are bushed, T1 bars and Sachs valving on the shocks better pads , are there issues with corvette hop passing there in race conditions?

Bimota Guy

I have raced there just one weekend. Yes, but when you do go well off the optimal line, like anywhere, you have to give up something, so I am very careful there if I have just passed off line.
I run Moton triples and the full T1 suspension package. I would submit far stiffer sway bars and hard (street) tires are a bad combination which will not be at all representative of a T1 package on race tires.

Have not made a pass there on a similar car as I recall, but was certainly able to get on the gas fairly well after an inside pass and track out toward the right hander.

As far as racing room, giving it is certainly proper etiquette, but one need not go too far with that. Stealing an apex is also appropriate racing behavior. This ain't Speed Ventures.

-Steve

bobmoore2

Speed Ventures allows passing in the curves in their Advanced run group. They frown on Stealing apexes, but they allow taking the apex as the fastest passing line, when the passee signals that he is going to stay wide through the curve to allow my pass there. If timed correctly the passing car can go through the corner at almost full speed, because you can stay on the race line through the corner.

I would never try stealing an apex in Turn 3 at Willow Springs. There's no room to react and recover in that corner.

Bimota Guy

So how is this not what I said? Stealing is stealing and being allowed is, um, well, er not stealing.
Umm, there is.

-Steve

Dirty Howie

When can you come up to WSIR and show us how you do it


DH

Olitho

I am sure I can count on Steve to steal my apexes in turn three come our SCCA race in February. If he is not stealing mine, he can count on me trying to steal his.


Oli

Dirty Howie

When in Feb ???

Are you going to come to SV on Feb.7 to warm up ??

......... practice stealing apexis


DH

Olitho

February 21-22
http://www.calclub.com/maincalendar.htm



I might just do that....




.

fatbillybob

triple morons? I didnot know that was T1 legal.

Olitho

Hey, that is what you are guaranteed to have any time you have three or more T1 racers on the track at the same time!


Oli

Bimota Guy

Oh, that's good.
? Where is the restriction in the GCR?

Bimota Guy

Don't go making me say something like, "I'd steal your apex if it were necessary to get past you, but it isn't." Because that would not be nice.

Seriously, I just don't understand why some of you think there is no way to steal the apex in T3. That fact it is not easy (in many...most?...corners, for that matter) is precisely why SV does not allow it. Tracking is not racing. I am not putting down track days as I do them myself. They are great fun, a great way to learn, and there are many fast drivers who attend them.

-Steve

Dirty Howie

Steve

I am not a racer, only a tracker ....... so I always give away the apex, no stealing necessary !!!!


DH