RoganR

Besides renting the track for the day for HPDE, what other cost would a Motorsports club have?

Are the instructors paid or given a discount to participate at the event?

Short-Throw

Different tracks vary on what's included.

Things you want to make sure you have, whether it's included or a la carte:

1) Plenty of corner workers
2) Paramedics (with ambulance preferred)
3) Event Insurance
4) Instructors are usually given free track time as barter for teaching
5) Usually participants are responsible for damages (i.e. grass, Armco)
6) Safety equipment (i.e. Gradall)

RoganR

Different tracks vary on what's included.

Things you want to make sure you have, whether it's included or a la carte:

1) Plenty of corner workers <--covered with payment for track
2) Paramedics (with ambulance preferred)<--covered with payment for track
3) Event Insurance <--Need to research this
4) Instructors are usually given free track time as barter for teaching
5) Usually participants are responsible for damages (i.e. grass, Armco)
6) Safety equipment (i.e. Gradall)

Thanks for the input

rudyarias

Security - some courses require that an additional fee is paid for security if you wish to have the participants the ability to drop and leave their RVs, tow vehicles and trailers over night.

Since the well publicized incident with the Ferrari Club's Event at the California Speedway. The pro courses have tighten up on their track requirements for club rentals.

Road Courses that cater to Club Racing will require that you obtain insurance. Some pro courses like Road America will package it with the rental fees. Some courses will add additional fees in the event of unforeseen damage to their property or incident on the course (like oil clean up). Most clubs past this on to the participant responsible for the incident. This insurance will not cover any damages incurred to your participant's vehicles.

Safety equipment is a variable factor from course to course. Clubs like NASA have their own permanent Safety truck which is used for added support at courses that have their own safety equipment.

A track wavier for your club. It is added protection in case someone gets by the entrance gate without signing the track's wavier.

You will find that Paramedics will be the biggest expense whether its a pro, club or private course.

By-laws/rules. It is very important that you enforce your rules.

RoganR

HPDE is different than Club Racing correct?

rudyarias

No, same insurance requirements, Club Racing, HPDE or both. You are renting the course for a non spectator event.

RoganR

ok gotcha. thanks for the info.

AU N EGL

You could also join a local cub to see how events are run.

Insurance for an HPDE, with a min of 20% class room time and IN CAR instructors and NO timing runs about $12-1500 +/- per day.

Smaller shorter less popular tracks are less to rent then more popular tracks. Weekend rates, Thursday to Sunday vs Monday to Wed rates. Plus Nove to March rates may be less dependence on the track. Or June to Sept may be less in Florida or Texas do to the heat.

Track rental runs a whole range from $2500 to $15,000 per day.

A popular track, if you can rent it as most are booked well in advance, could run $30,000 for a weekend rental.


Rental deposit range about 25% to reserve your dates and balance of the contract is due the morning your event starts or the day before.

If you sell out your event to participants, great your expenses are covered. If you dont have enough income to cover the track rental, you still pay the FULL rental costs our of pocket.

There are more to expenses then just the track rental too. Have a good business plan helps.

Good Luck

RoganR

I've done a few with Chin and my 2nd with HOD this month. I will try to get more info from instructors at the track and Henry w/HOD (if he is cool with sharing info). Mark with Chin is pretty cool guy as well, so maybe the next time I do a Chin I will try to get some info from him as well.

95jersey

From what I have seen over the past decade, I think a big factor is fostering relationships with the tracks to even get time. Many of them are booked and have already rented out their non-competitive days to the clubs they have long term relationships with.

Also, they want their money up front. So say a track charges $10,000 per day. That is coming out of your pocket first, and then it is your responsibility to fill the event and get your money back. If you are not already established you will be starting from ZERO. You'll need a website, advertising...administration, and so on (all at a cost). Also there are SO many clubs out there now, that competition and track time is fierce. To break even, you need 40 paying customers at $250 which is a normal rate, then you need instructors for about half of them. Even if you don't charge for instructors, they are hard to come by.

I have been to many events where you could tell the event was either a wash or the organizer lost money and was hoping to make it up on another event. I honestly look at a typical track event and can not figure out how these people are making money, especially after they pay insurance and admin costs.

I would love to do this and go in partnership, but I honestly don't see any money in it and my time is way too valuable to break even. When I came to the forum advertising TT4Cars, I remember putting posts in a few forums and was lucky to get 10-15 people.

RoganR

Yeah I know about paying up front. I've visited quite a few events over the years and some of the event holders are filling up there spaces...at least down here in Florida.

Tintin

You must be in the East. We have never paid up front, only a deposit. Whatever the track rental , you can figure on about $4000- for the other things like Insurance, ambulance, tow truck and marshalls.

One thing you may wish to follow our lead on, we never refer to instructors, only coaches so that there is a reduction of liability. I have heard of instructors being sued for bad instruction, it always comes down to a "He said, she said" situation.

We typically only have people we know at our events and have only two groups - those that are ok with being passed anywhere at any time and those that are not so only on the straights. We do not restrict anyone from changing groups at will as long as they understand the rules.

I would be shocked if you found a California track that can be rented on a weekend for the next 5 years. We generally do our stuff on a weekday. Track rental is about $6,000 to $15,000 during the week for a day with Laguna Seca being the most overpriced. We do Buttonwillow because it is big, fast and tough to hit the single wall.

We never try to make money doing this, we just split the cost so it is about $200-$250 each time with 4-8 hours of track time per person - which is a lot..

Good luck with your deal, post a price and if you are nearby we may join you..

SpeedTeacher

I am planning on building a dedicated autocross facility in Northern Indiana. It won't be a road course, but will be configured so that any car enthusiast will have fun. Several of our course options will be 'Corvette friendly'.

We are selling memberships to help raise some capital. Here is a link to what we are doing:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/grea...n-indiana.html

Our business model is pretty solid and its amazing how many people are on board to participate.

Todd James
Marketing Director
The RPM Group

RoganR

Spoke to two tracks and they sounded pretty ready/eager to do business now. I'm kind of excited, but I doing research first. I hope to make a decision to move forward in the next couple of weeks. Obviously a lot of ground work first like website, finding instructors/coaches etc. I also want to get my competition license prior to starting this.

Thanks for the post gentlemen.

Mjolitor 68

I want to build 1 in Argentina, there is already a road course down ther similair to the old Moroson I'd love to buy

of course I'd repave it, upgrade the garages, then add a VIP clubhouse w "Flag girls"

RoganR

What I've found so far is that no one responds to emails and its hard to catch them on the phone.

This makes it interesting and where the relationship building is really necessary.

RoganR

In order to rent a track for HPDE I would need some type of competition or performance license? Which one?

AU N EGL

NO

HPDE = High Performance Drivers EDUCATION, which is not racing or competiion or have timing of any type.

Timing denotes competition which voids most ppls car insurance on track

Racing is competition and sanctioned by a major car club. NASA, PCA, PBOA, SCCA, et al

maybe working for NASA-FL

NASA forum http://www.nasaforums.com/

NASA FL reagion http://www.drivenasafl.com/

There is a NASA FL thread here for events too

This week is the PBOC ( Porsha, BMW Owners Club) races at Sebring

and this coming weekend IIRC is the SCCA races at Moroso. Near Miami.

Your enthusiasm is great, the learning curve is steep, but thinking your going to make money on track days, well it is not easy to do. Most clubs that in it to make money fail.

There have been a few ppl who rented a track just go play speed racer. They quickly learned how to crash cars. These individuals were not allowed to renew or come back the following year.

Working with an EXISTING CLUB is the best way to learn.