bosco022

I posted this on the Grand Am website. What do you guys think?

Why Not SCCA T-1 type Corvette's in Koni GS?

Seems that C5 & C6 Corvette's in something like SCCA T-1 trim would be a natural for Koni GS. I believe their performance at most tracks would be very similar to the 'Stangs, Porsche's and M3's. Take Daytona for example top times by the GS cars are now around 2:01 to 2:02 while very well driven, well prepped SCCA T-1 Vette's clock about 2:02 to 2:03.

These cars are natural competitors to the above and as long as you don't allow them bigger brakes, coilovers etc it seems this could make a positive impact on car count and fan interest.

What da ya think?

davidfarmer

Vettes used to be legal in super grand sport, but they eliminated the class. I don't know if it's displacement limited or what, but I don't believe Vettes are legal.

Grand Am made the choice not to allow them....don't know if that's still the case.

bosco022

David , you are right, they ran in the SGS class.

The SGS vette's I believe had a higher level of prep than a T-1 car and also the GS cars performance have improved to the point that I think this would be a good match.

Seems like it could potentially bring in a bunch of new cars and competitors. You wouldn't have to buy a 135,000 mustang, porsche or the new Riley Camaro just to compete. Affordable racing I guess makes too much sense.

Tintin

You would have at least $100K in a C6 to be at all competitive. You would also have to do all your development without factory help. Very difficult to do.

2 seconds a lap is a lifetime in a 2 minute lap. You would be 12 laps behind in a 24 hour race, assuming you could maintain that pace....

davidfarmer

I can't totally agree with Tintin.......IF the series wanted the Vettes to be competitive, they could easily make them so without excessive development. Anyway, all the development has already been done in World Challenge and Grand Am since 1998, since the C5 & C6 chassis are nearly identical.

I personally think it would be nice to have Vettes racing, since they have Porsches, but I think they really wanted GS to be a Pony Car class.

bosco022

The Koni Challenge doesn't run 24 hour races, 2-3 hours.

Also the T-1 cars that run 2:02-2:03 at Daytona in May in 90-95 degree temp vs 60-70 in Jan for Koni.

And I don't believe it takes 100 grand to build or buy a competitive C6 T-1 car.

A few weeks ago I had the opportunity to buy a nice 2006 C6 6 speed Vette below rough wholesale of 23K. This was a pretty clean 30,000 mile car. Rough/damaged cars can be bought for much less.

mikahb

Man, that would be sweet and seems like a pretty reasonable idea. I've been considering some Koni opportunities and the only ones that I could swing (with sponsor help) are GT rides. Would be more fun to get into a GS car, especially if it was one I was familiar with!

Not sure how you'd keep brakes on a C5 for a 3 hour race (don't use them!), but that would be a problem for the teams to figure out.

Sounds like fun!

bosco022

I think it was 1998 when RK Smith and his group ran the 24 hour in a C5 that was less than a T-1 car. If I remember correctly they finished tenth in their class, running like the last 12 hours with the back glass blown out. Reportedly they had never been in the engine and the car was pretty much stock save for headers and a high flow air intake.

Tintin

Ok, I concede that point about the development David.

I will say that I never prepped a showroom stock car for less than $30K on top of the car and that was a T1 Mustang in 1996. When I ran cars in Canada in showroom stock Firehawk back in the late 80's, it was about $3k for every hour on the track for spares and it cost $35K to prep the car. Plus the car.
I was expecting that you would start with a new car so you could get the most powerful base engine and build the car to win and not to come 10th. The cars are about $45K and I would guess at least $40K to get it to the track. Then about $4k per hour on the track. Plus travel.
Still a really cheap way to go pro racing but probably beyond the means of most...

0Randy@DRM

Let me know when you get to this problem. We raced stock PBRs for 24 hour events. Be ready to throw away many calipers and hardware.

Randy

gkmccready

Wasn't Phoenix looking for $85k for a C6 T1 car?

And, Randy, as much as the CCWs cost me, you're making me happy I invested in the Wilwoods. ;-)

Locke

I believe Grand Am feels the performace potential of the C-5 and C-6 to be too great to allow the car in with the Mustang/Camaro/997/M3.
I would also say they wanted to see four seaters in the class but noticed one of the BMW Z somethings running from Cline's shop a few times.

ghoffman

No slide rail brake is suitable for serious racing beyond 30 minutes or so (I think they are marginal for driving down MY driveway). How can a flexible caliper with 10mm of usefull pad material compete against this GrandAm PFC caliper with 21mm thick pads in a multi hour race? Grand Am rules dictate a 2 piece caliper (no monoblocks) and 4 pistons.

bosco022

Well, Grand Am might have to give them some calipers. They already balance performance with restrictors and weight.

Caliper upgrades are allowed on the Mustang and GTO, two piece 4 piston.

My point was these cars make sense racing together and the performance potential can be balanced.

Fans would love seeing the 'Vettes out there, GM might not though, as they are bringing out the Riley Camaro.