Viinchenza

I have a noob question here. I recently purchased my first vette (02/z06) and plan on participating in HPDE. I have watch several HPDE vids and have noted that turn 10 on the full course at VIR is a common spot or spins. Can someone explain why this is? Is it off camber, or does it un-weight the rear end?

mikahb

IMHO, it's two reasons:

1) It's blind as you come up the hill to it, so people are more prone to mis-judging their speed and car position, and
2) You're cresting a hill which does lighten the car - both ends. If you're really running hard but have the car well balanced, this will manifest as a 4-wheel drift as you crest the hill. It's very easy, however, to have one end more planted than the other (usually going a little too slow and on-power means the rear lets go more than the front).

Just do your braking early and straight (like always), and you'll get through there fine. Of all the places to push to gain laptime, that should be pretty far down on the list as there are large consequences for relatively small potential gain.

Have fun, VIR is an amazing track!

Viinchenza

So, it sounds like don't trail brake and make sure the car is planted before getting back on the gas. Thanks for the info.

mikahb

Yep - trailbraking over a crest isn't impossible, but not for the faint of heart to be certain! You just want to be carrying maintenance throttle as you crest the hill and you can start to open it back up when you settle on the backside. Squeeze on gently there though too - hit the throttle too hard or a little too soon and you'll find yourself deciding which side of the track you want to go off - neither is a good option.

Jim 47

I'm in full agreement with Mikah. It's a relatively simple turn at the end of the climb through the esses, but at the turn in to 10 the apex and trackout are blind and the track is beginning to go down hill, but it doesn't take many times through the turn to figure it out. A short straight follows 10 in which you must go from full track right to full track left, and go through 11 as quickly as possible. My experience is that most drivers tend to brake too much prior to 11 and they end up coasting between 11 and 12. Between 11 and 12 is where heavy braking should occur, but just enough as to get a max exit speed from 12, because you're looking at about a mile of straight, where you should reach your maximum speed at VIR.

There has always been debate whether or not to grab 2nd at the 12 turn (oak tree), or stay in 3rd for the beginning of the acceleration down the straight. Personally I like 2nd as it usually give me a higher terminal speed at the end of the straight. VIR is a great track. Enjoy it>

Jim

gonzalezfj

What he said!!!

Having instructed at VIR many times as a professional and a volunteer (National Corvette Muesum events), I can add to the above.

As mikahb points out, turn 10 is not a place to make mistakes. It crests a hill (which makes the car light) and goes off camber at the exit (which decreases grip significantly). In addition, it is blind (you can't see the apex from the entry point), so most newbies tend to turn in early -- a deadly mistake.

I recommend to newbies to drive this turn initially leaving themselves at least one car width to the right edge of the track when exiting (for safety's sake). You will have plenty of time later to work on increasing your speed throrgh here.

Make sure you turn in at the right point and keep some power on after turn-in to keep the rear wheels planted.

One last thing: If you drop a right wheel on exit, DON'T TRY TO STEER THE CAR BACK ON TO THE ASPHALT. So many people drop wheels here that there is a significant step from the asphalt to the dirt beyond. If you try to horse the car back on to the asphalt at speed, your rear will get caught on the lip and you will spin to the inside, where tire barrier is waiting for you at the bottom of the hill. The right thing to do is to continue along the side of the track with your right wheels on the dirt while you slow the car down gently, then get it back on the track.

Enjoy. VIR is on of the best tracks in the entire nation.

Frank Gonzalez

Falcon

Here's some footage from a PCA event a year or so ago. This might help you visualize what everyone is talking about. It's a blind turn, and early apexing will ruin your day.

It starts at the bottom of the Esses and ends as we exit Turn 10.

Giddy Up!

manicheus

Turn 10 can be pretty intimidating, but if you follow Frank's advice, it is not the most dangerous turn at VIR. I have seen lots of cars of cars go off on the inside of 10 with no ill effects other than bruised egos. Even if you turn in early and run out of track there is plenty of room in the grass to scrub speed and regain control. Just avoid the drainage structure at the bottom of the hill.

Turns 5a and 6 are more dangerous because there is very little run off room. But if you are easy on feeding in the throttle, you will stay out of trouble.

Have fun. VIR is an incredible place!

gonzalezfj

Thanks, Jody. One video is worth a thousand words... or something like that.

Frank Gonzalez

WNeal

So,
I have about 10 - 12 more MPH to gain through the esses


Nice little vid

Bink

Funny I hear.........Jody's voice.

".......dab 'em.....Turn."

"easy, easy ...stay in it...Turn".

".....stay in it...good....turn......"

".....all the way over.....stay out, wait.....wait....brake.. Turn."

Viinchenza

Thank you all for the great advice. I'll have to reread it a couple of times prior to getting on the track.

Falcon

That's it exactly! When you mentioned it, I could hear myself saying that.

You did a great job up through there, Joel! It takes some serious concentration the first few times.

davidfarmer

break before 10, power through it, use all of the track-out (even though you can't see it until you get there). If you pinch it off, or lift mid corner, that's when things go wrong, just like turn 5 at Rd Atlanta!

It's fast, and wide, so use the gas and the track-out!

Looking forward to running their next weekend (THSCC DE)

71corv

What David F. said. All of my instructors have given me the same directions.

Gene

magnetic1

What Frank/Jody said

In case you wanted to actually SEE a mid corner T10 (South Bend) spin.. here you go

http://vimeo.com/1967141

varkwso

Very nice video Jody - and narrative....

T10 is a great turn...lots of top notch advice here also...

AU N EGL

Just take it easy and listen to your instructor. Have fun.

magnetic1

OOO, I found another with Corvette content Miata going off T10 as described hooking to the left. (1st lap). This video is fairly old, back when the Watts brothers were running C5s and before they wrapped their cars

http://vimeo.com/3040627

EvilBoffin

Not trying to scare you, but here's another classic example that seems to be caused by an early (and rather shallow) apex at 10, without enough lift/brake prior to turn-in to allow for the steering mistake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqfv2tYhkDk

Be sure to watch it in high quality mode...